Kelly pavlik vs Carl froch

[Cressa121]

Not that i'm picking a winner in this fantasy fight, but am I the only person that thinks Froch is completly over rated? He beats Abraham and now eveyone seems to think he's the punisher or something? I just don't see it. He got beat by Kessler, picked apart by an immature fighter in Dirrell and was lucky to knockout a washed up Taylor. Froch is the kinda guy that would get completly humiliated by someone like Hopkins, similar to how Pavlik was. Calzaghe would eat him up all night for an easy UD also. At Pavliks recent point in his carreer im not sure who I would pick, but a focused head on straight Pavlik wins at least 7 out of 10 IMO.

How was he lucky to knockout Taylor? He was down on 2 of the scorecards, needed a big 12th round and went out and finished a tiring opponent. I didn't see anything lucky about the way he finished him off. I agree on the Dirrell fight, I thought he lost that one by a few rounds. The Kessler fight was close, many thought Froch won and there's no shame in losing a close, highly competitive fight against a top fighter, so I don't see how that shows he's overrated.

No question that Froch completely batters Pavlik now imo. A fight against Pavlik at his best would be closer, but I'd still take Froch to win it. I used to think he was overrated because technically he doesn't seem that good, but to beat so many good opponents, or at least have competitive fights with them indicates he's doing something right. And against Abraham he showed he could box from behind his jab and completely dominate a dangerous opponent, rather than get drawn into a war. I know a lot of people that have fought/sparred with him have said he's deceptively good, and is a lot tougher and better than they'd thought he was.

[levi#1BoxingFan]

Not that i'm picking a winner in this fantasy fight, but am I the only person that thinks Froch is completly over rated? He beats Abraham and now eveyone seems to think he's the punisher or something? I just don't see it. He got beat by Kessler, picked apart by an immature fighter in Dirrell and was lucky to knockout a washed up Taylor. Froch is the kinda guy that would get completly humiliated by someone like Hopkins, similar to how Pavlik was. Calzaghe would eat him up all night for an easy UD also. At Pavliks recent point in his carreer im not sure who I would pick, but a focused head on straight Pavlik wins at least 7 out of 10 IMO.

How was he lucky to knockout Taylor? He was down on 2 of the scorecards, needed a big 12th round and went out and finished a tiring opponent. I didn't see anything lucky about the way he finished him off. I agree on the Dirrell fight, I thought he lost that one by a few rounds. The Kessler fight was close, many thought Froch won and there's no shame in losing a close, highly competitive fight against a top fighter, so I don't see how that shows he's overrated.

No question that Froch completely batters Pavlik now imo. A fight against Pavlik at his best would be closer, but I'd still take Froch to win it. I used to think he was overrated because technically he doesn't seem that good, but to beat so many good opponents, or at least have competitive fights with them indicates he's doing something right. And against Abraham he showed he could box from behind his jab and completely dominate a dangerous opponent, rather than get drawn into a war. I know a lot of people that have fought/sparred with him have said he's deceptively good, and is a lot tougher and better than they'd thought he was.

I don't mean to bash everyone in the super six but to me Abraham was more over rated than froch. Abraham is never very active and he hasnt beaten any high quality opponets
IMO. Ward is the best in the group by far. Just wish he would be a little more aggressive at times. What I mean by lucky to knockout a washed up Taylor was that it was in the last few seconds of the last round. It had much more to do with Taylor just being gassed than it did some big "showstopper" of a punch. Taylor was never the same after he got rid of Pat burns. I blame Taylor 50% for his decline and Steward the other 50. Make no mistake, the Taylor of old would have punished Froch with the jab all night!

[Cressa121]

Not that i'm picking a winner in this fantasy fight, but am I the only person that thinks Froch is completly over rated? He beats Abraham and now eveyone seems to think he's the punisher or something? I just don't see it. He got beat by Kessler, picked apart by an immature fighter in Dirrell and was lucky to knockout a washed up Taylor. Froch is the kinda guy that would get completly humiliated by someone like Hopkins, similar to how Pavlik was. Calzaghe would eat him up all night for an easy UD also. At Pavliks recent point in his carreer im not sure who I would pick, but a focused head on straight Pavlik wins at least 7 out of 10 IMO.

How was he lucky to knockout Taylor? He was down on 2 of the scorecards, needed a big 12th round and went out and finished a tiring opponent. I didn't see anything lucky about the way he finished him off. I agree on the Dirrell fight, I thought he lost that one by a few rounds. The Kessler fight was close, many thought Froch won and there's no shame in losing a close, highly competitive fight against a top fighter, so I don't see how that shows he's overrated.

No question that Froch completely batters Pavlik now imo. A fight against Pavlik at his best would be closer, but I'd still take Froch to win it. I used to think he was overrated because technically he doesn't seem that good, but to beat so many good opponents, or at least have competitive fights with them indicates he's doing something right. And against Abraham he showed he could box from behind his jab and completely dominate a dangerous opponent, rather than get drawn into a war. I know a lot of people that have fought/sparred with him have said he's deceptively good, and is a lot tougher and better than they'd thought he was.

I don't mean to bash everyone in the super six but to me Abraham was more over rated than froch. Abraham is never very active and he hasnt beaten any high quality opponets
IMO. Ward is the best in the group by far. Just wish he would be a little more aggressive at times. What I mean by lucky to knockout a washed up Taylor was that it was in the last few seconds of the last round. It had much more to do with Taylor just being gassed than it did some big "showstopper" of a punch. Taylor was never the same after he got rid of Pat burns. I blame Taylor 50% for his decline and Steward the other 50. Make no mistake, the Taylor of old would have punished Froch with the jab all night!

Fair points, I agree with most of that

[erics44]

this is turning into yet another froch bashing thread

froch is a quality world class fighter who undoubtable deserves to be top 10 pound for pound in the world at the moment

even if froch wins the super 6 and then goes on to beat hopkins or whoever at light heavy and then wins the heavyweight title and then becomes king of England people will always have excuses

well Ward was past his best in the final and he was always overrated anyway, and hopkins had finally become an old man when they fought and his pet rabbit had just died so he was emotional, and the klits saw a mouse

cummon lads, like him or not just admit it, he is a top notch quality fighter

[Rantcatrat]

this is turning into yet another froch bashing thread

froch is a quality world class fighter who undoubtable deserves to be top 10 pound for pound in the world at the moment

even if froch wins the super 6 and then goes on to beat hopkins or whoever at light heavy and then wins the heavyweight title and then becomes king of England people will always have excuses

well Ward was past his best in the final and he was always overrated anyway, and hopkins had finally become an old man when they fought and his pet rabbit had just died so he was emotional, and the klits saw a mouse

cummon lads, like him or not just admit it, he is a top notch quality fighter

Just so you know where I stand, erics44, I believe Froch is rated where he should be. To me, his stock went down when he lost to Kessler. I understand that it was close, but Kessler is a fight Froch should have won, but didn't. He should be undefeated int he tournament right now. Thus, I rank him lower than Ward. And although he hasn't fought the same level of competition as Froch, I like Bute's potential more than Froch's. I have it Ward, Bute, and then Froch in order for the division.

[Cressa121]

this is turning into yet another froch bashing thread

froch is a quality world class fighter who undoubtable deserves to be top 10 pound for pound in the world at the moment

even if froch wins the super 6 and then goes on to beat hopkins or whoever at light heavy and then wins the heavyweight title and then becomes king of England people will always have excuses

well Ward was past his best in the final and he was always overrated anyway, and hopkins had finally become an old man when they fought and his pet rabbit had just died so he was emotional, and the klits saw a mouse

cummon lads, like him or not just admit it, he is a top notch quality fighter

Just so you know where I stand, erics44, I believe Froch is rated where he should be. To me, his stock went down when he lost to Kessler. I understand that it was close, but Kessler is a fight Froch should have won, but didn't. He should be undefeated int he tournament right now. Thus, I rank him lower than Ward. And although he hasn't fought the same level of competition as Froch, I like Bute's potential more than Froch's. I have it Ward, Bute, and then Froch in order for the division.

I agree with most of this, though I have Froch above Bute because of the level of his competition. Bute's should improve with the move to Showtime and the Super Six winding down so a better calibre of opponents will begin to become available. I understand why people like Bute as a fighter and thus rate him higher than Froch because his skills are unquestionable, but his comp isn't there yet for me to rate him above Froch. A Bute-Froch fight is something I'd really like to see, I think it would be an excellent fight and would a really tough one to call. Hopefully it's something we may see at the back end of 2011/early 2012

[erics44]

this is turning into yet another froch bashing thread

froch is a quality world class fighter who undoubtable deserves to be top 10 pound for pound in the world at the moment

even if froch wins the super 6 and then goes on to beat hopkins or whoever at light heavy and then wins the heavyweight title and then becomes king of England people will always have excuses

well Ward was past his best in the final and he was always overrated anyway, and hopkins had finally become an old man when they fought and his pet rabbit had just died so he was emotional, and the klits saw a mouse

cummon lads, like him or not just admit it, he is a top notch quality fighter

Just so you know where I stand, erics44, I believe Froch is rated where he should be. To me, his stock went down when he lost to Kessler. I understand that it was close, but Kessler is a fight Froch should have won, but didn't. He should be undefeated int he tournament right now. Thus, I rank him lower than Ward. And although he hasn't fought the same level of competition as Froch, I like Bute's potential more than Froch's. I have it Ward, Bute, and then Froch in order for the division.

perhaps it is your opinion that bute is better than froch but there is nothing to suggest that bute could be above him in any ranking system

Ward perhaps could be higher than froch purely from the kessler fights, that win over kessler aside Ward doesnt have a record as good as froch

[levi#1BoxingFan]

this is turning into yet another froch bashing thread

froch is a quality world class fighter who undoubtable deserves to be top 10 pound for pound in the world at the moment

even if froch wins the super 6 and then goes on to beat hopkins or whoever at light heavy and then wins the heavyweight title and then becomes king of England people will always have excuses

well Ward was past his best in the final and he was always overrated anyway, and hopkins had finally become an old man when they fought and his pet rabbit had just died so he was emotional, and the klits saw a mouse

cummon lads, like him or not just admit it, he is a top notch quality fighter

What win does Froch have on his record that proves this? He was given a gift to even win the Dirrell fight.

[erics44]

this is turning into yet another froch bashing thread

froch is a quality world class fighter who undoubtable deserves to be top 10 pound for pound in the world at the moment

even if froch wins the super 6 and then goes on to beat hopkins or whoever at light heavy and then wins the heavyweight title and then becomes king of England people will always have excuses

well Ward was past his best in the final and he was always overrated anyway, and hopkins had finally become an old man when they fought and his pet rabbit had just died so he was emotional, and the klits saw a mouse

cummon lads, like him or not just admit it, he is a top notch quality fighter

What win does Froch have on his record that proves this? He was given a gift to even win the Dirrell fight.

look at his last 5 fights how do they compare to anyone else in the division?

he wasnt given a gift against dirrell in my opinion, he rightly won that fight