I think JMM beats Bradley @ 140.

[Violent Demise]

I can't believe people are actually favoring Marquez over Bradley. Did you watch Marquez not being able to land anything on mayweather? Well Bradley has a really hard defense to crack, he's much faster than Marquez, and he has a great stylistic advantage over jmm. There is not much a guy like jmm can do against this style because he comes straight forward, and that's why he could not circumvent floyd's jab, and why bradley would out box jmm on the outside. Not enough angles and jmm doesn't have any punches that extend his reach without forcing him off balance. It would be a fun fight though.

Bradley has a hard defense to crack? Since when? Did you miss Kendall Holt twice floor Bradley? Holt pretty much gave Bradley the fight by refusing to throw punches. A problem Marquez does not have. Not to mention Holt's offense pretty much consists of one punch. He doesn't have the arsenal Marquez has. Marquez can throw every punch in the book. He'll dissect Bradley without much trouble. If Mayweather or the juiced up Pacquiao couldn't stop Marquez. Than Bradley can't either

How can you say compare Holt to Marquez? Just by trying to say one guy did this, then everyone can. Look at how Zab Judah caught Mayweather often early in their fight. Like Holt he has a good power, he's very fast and he actually quite a good pure boxer. If JMM tried to box with Holt on the outside he would get picked apart. Holt is faster, he hits harder, and he has the reach advantage, but he folds mentally after awhile when he is being pressured just like Zab Judah. As soon as you figure out the method to encapsulate them then they are done. They don't have that adjustment great boxers make to win fights. But besides Kendall Holt who has reached Bradley with regularity? Nobody, because he actually does have a really good defense despite the fact he pressures his opponent. This isn't about race as much as style, but african american's generally have a long style where they learn to really get an effective long jab. Mexican's try more to box with solid fundamentals and combinations on the inside, they don't lunge or use a lot of upper body movement, they stick to the basics and use their fundamental skills and their great determination to beat opponents. THe problem they have against african americans who fight with the style I am talking about is that they can't get around the jab, and they aren't used to facing a guy who slips a lot and use a lot of slips coming in, probably because that african-american slick style doesn't exist as much in the smaller weight classes because there aren't very many elite african-american's down at those weight classes. Now JMM is probably the pennacle of the mexican style, nobody has had more technique and determination than he does, but this is just a style he can't overcome. If he has a target then he can compete with anyone that isn't too big, but Timothy use way too much movement(both with his body and feet), and like FLoyd's style it will freeze JMM offense. He won't know what to do because he doesn't encounter this style enough, and his style is poorly equipped to deal with it.

Timothy Bradley doesn't fight exactly like Mayweather, he doesn't have the build or speed to do so, but he is very elusive and he's adapts incredibly well like Floyd does, but he doesn't need to be as good as Floyd to beat a guy like JMM who is at such a big disadvantage stylistically. And he is nothing like Juan Diaz, who takes punches off his arms and tries to outwork you, if you think they are a basically the same fighter then I am going to let you believe that and stop messaging on this because it just wasting both of our time because besides pressure they are completely different which is why Timothy has been so much more successful.

They don't. But Marquez does. He's done it plenty of times before in his career. Judah and Holt ain't great fighters. Marquez is. Bradley is a good fighter. But he ain't great. Maybe he will be one day. But he ain't now. I know what your saying about blacks and there style. But if I remember correctly Marquez took the heart and made quit a African American fighter who employed a jab. Was tall. And liked to move around the ring. Knock Derrick Gainer all you want. But don't tell me he doesn't employ the African American style your talking about

[Taeth]

I can't believe people are actually favoring Marquez over Bradley. Did you watch Marquez not being able to land anything on mayweather? Well Bradley has a really hard defense to crack, he's much faster than Marquez, and he has a great stylistic advantage over jmm. There is not much a guy like jmm can do against this style because he comes straight forward, and that's why he could not circumvent floyd's jab, and why bradley would out box jmm on the outside. Not enough angles and jmm doesn't have any punches that extend his reach without forcing him off balance. It would be a fun fight though.

Bradley has a hard defense to crack? Since when? Did you miss Kendall Holt twice floor Bradley? Holt pretty much gave Bradley the fight by refusing to throw punches. A problem Marquez does not have. Not to mention Holt's offense pretty much consists of one punch. He doesn't have the arsenal Marquez has. Marquez can throw every punch in the book. He'll dissect Bradley without much trouble. If Mayweather or the juiced up Pacquiao couldn't stop Marquez. Than Bradley can't either

How can you say compare Holt to Marquez? Just by trying to say one guy did this, then everyone can. Look at how Zab Judah caught Mayweather often early in their fight. Like Holt he has a good power, he's very fast and he actually quite a good pure boxer. If JMM tried to box with Holt on the outside he would get picked apart. Holt is faster, he hits harder, and he has the reach advantage, but he folds mentally after awhile when he is being pressured just like Zab Judah. As soon as you figure out the method to encapsulate them then they are done. They don't have that adjustment great boxers make to win fights. But besides Kendall Holt who has reached Bradley with regularity? Nobody, because he actually does have a really good defense despite the fact he pressures his opponent. This isn't about race as much as style, but african american's generally have a long style where they learn to really get an effective long jab. Mexican's try more to box with solid fundamentals and combinations on the inside, they don't lunge or use a lot of upper body movement, they stick to the basics and use their fundamental skills and their great determination to beat opponents. THe problem they have against african americans who fight with the style I am talking about is that they can't get around the jab, and they aren't used to facing a guy who slips a lot and use a lot of slips coming in, probably because that african-american slick style doesn't exist as much in the smaller weight classes because there aren't very many elite african-american's down at those weight classes. Now JMM is probably the pennacle of the mexican style, nobody has had more technique and determination than he does, but this is just a style he can't overcome. If he has a target then he can compete with anyone that isn't too big, but Timothy use way too much movement(both with his body and feet), and like FLoyd's style it will freeze JMM offense. He won't know what to do because he doesn't encounter this style enough, and his style is poorly equipped to deal with it.

Timothy Bradley doesn't fight exactly like Mayweather, he doesn't have the build or speed to do so, but he is very elusive and he's adapts incredibly well like Floyd does, but he doesn't need to be as good as Floyd to beat a guy like JMM who is at such a big disadvantage stylistically. And he is nothing like Juan Diaz, who takes punches off his arms and tries to outwork you, if you think they are a basically the same fighter then I am going to let you believe that and stop messaging on this because it just wasting both of our time because besides pressure they are completely different which is why Timothy has been so much more successful.

They don't. But Marquez does. He's done it plenty of times before in his career. Judah and Holt ain't great fighters. Marquez is. Bradley is a good fighter. But he ain't great. Maybe he will be one day. But he ain't now. I know what your saying about blacks and there style. But if I remember correctly Marquez took the heart and made quit a African American fighter who employed a jab. Was tall. And liked to move around the ring. Knock Derrick Gainer all you want. But don't tell me he doesn't employ the African American style your talking about

Derrick Gainer was a boxer, not a fighter. THe difference between guys like Judah, Holt, Gainer, Michael Nunn to a certian extent, is that they were just boxers, and one dimensional in that regard. Mayweather, Hopkins, Whitaker, Leonard, RJJ, and he's not in their league yet but timothy bradley can do it all. We've seen Marquez do small changes, but nothing like he would need to beat Bradley because he might change his timing or distance in a fight, but he doesn't change angles or his style. If you are one dimensional even as a great athlete, and I don't mean even that you can only box or punch, but a guy that can do either one at any moment. If you box-punch all the time like a guy like Meldrick Taylor or Miguel Cotto then there is a chance that when they fight a guy who can walk through their punches that they will be in big trouble.

I think JMM is a terrific fighter, but a guy with substance with Bradley's style and skill will beat him almost everytime. He is just poorly equipped if a guy jab effective and move, not just JMM but almost all mexican fighters are. It's not an insult its just how styles work.

[Master]

Bradley would beat JMM, he has fought better fighters at the weight. As good as JMM is I think this would be a bridge too far for the great man. Although I would like to see the match up and I think JMM stands a better chance against Bradley than he has against Khan, who would be too fast and tall.

[TitoFan]

If Bradley were to beat JMM at 140, and that's a huge IF... it would be based on two things: size and age.

JMM proved he is no Pacquiao when it comes to going up in weight. (Hell... no one else has done what Pacquiao has done, dirty or not). But JMM left no doubt of that when he took on Mayweather and was totally outclassed and dominated. And we all know 140 is not JMM's natural weight. So Bradley being the naturally bigger man DEFINITELY gives him an advantage. I also mention the "age" factor, because Father Time waits for no one. JMM is getting old for a boxer, just like everybody else... and that would also be a factor on Bradley's side.

BUT...... having said that.... PLEASE do not argue that Bradley would beat JMM because he's a better fighter. JMM is and has always been TWICE the fighter and boxer that Bradley can ever hope to be. Not dissing Bradley here... just putting things in perspective. I don't normally agree too much with VD, but I agree 100% here: Bradley is a good fighter. JMM is a GREAT fighter.

So yeah... at this point in time, and with the fight being at 140, I give Bradley a pretty good chance of beating JMM. Not a sure thing, mind you... but a pretty good chance.

[Taeth]

If Bradley were to beat JMM at 140, and that's a huge IF... it would be based on two things: size and age.

JMM proved he is no Pacquiao when it comes to going up in weight. (Hell... no one else has done what Pacquiao has done, dirty or not). But JMM left no doubt of that when he took on Mayweather and was totally outclassed and dominated. And we all know 140 is not JMM's natural weight. So Bradley being the naturally bigger man DEFINITELY gives him an advantage. I also mention the "age" factor, because Father Time waits for no one. JMM is getting old for a boxer, just like everybody else... and that would also be a factor on Bradley's side.

BUT...... having said that.... PLEASE do not argue that Bradley would beat JMM because he's a better fighter. JMM is and has always been TWICE the fighter and boxer that Bradley can ever hope to be. Not dissing Bradley here... just putting things in perspective. I don't normally agree too much with VD, but I agree 100% here: Bradley is a good fighter. JMM is a GREAT fighter.

So yeah... at this point in time, and with the fight being at 140, I give Bradley a pretty good chance of beating JMM. Not a sure thing, mind you... but a pretty good chance.

People's perception of good and great are purely based on quality of opposition, but alos how many times have great fighters lost to good fighters? Mosley to Vernon Forrest, Kostya Tszyu to Phillips, Leonard to Terry Norris and Camacho, Holyfield against Michael Moorer. THese are just modern examples, but the list goes on and on.

What does size have to do with it? I don't think it's fair to say JMM hasn't moved up effectively, he just had to fight Mayweather while Pacquiao fought everyone else. None of them are Mayweather. Sure moving up has slowed Marquez down, but not any more so in comparison to the division he was fighting in. THe higher you go the slower the guys will be, and Marquez has done a tremendous job of maintaining his speed while moving up, its just once again, when he fought Mayweather who was naturally faster with that longer style and great defense he had no chance.

I'm not saying Bradley will have a better legacy than JMM, that would be crazy to say this early in his career and with the fact he has little knockout power, but at this moment he's a better fighter than JMM, he's more versatile and he's faster. He's actually shorter than JMM, and he doesn't really fight on the inside ala Hatton or DUran so I am not sure how much his size would play a factor.

[TitoFan]

If Bradley were to beat JMM at 140, and that's a huge IF... it would be based on two things: size and age.

JMM proved he is no Pacquiao when it comes to going up in weight. (Hell... no one else has done what Pacquiao has done, dirty or not). But JMM left no doubt of that when he took on Mayweather and was totally outclassed and dominated. And we all know 140 is not JMM's natural weight. So Bradley being the naturally bigger man DEFINITELY gives him an advantage. I also mention the "age" factor, because Father Time waits for no one. JMM is getting old for a boxer, just like everybody else... and that would also be a factor on Bradley's side.

BUT...... having said that.... PLEASE do not argue that Bradley would beat JMM because he's a better fighter. JMM is and has always been TWICE the fighter and boxer that Bradley can ever hope to be. Not dissing Bradley here... just putting things in perspective. I don't normally agree too much with VD, but I agree 100% here: Bradley is a good fighter. JMM is a GREAT fighter.

So yeah... at this point in time, and with the fight being at 140, I give Bradley a pretty good chance of beating JMM. Not a sure thing, mind you... but a pretty good chance.

People's perception of good and great are purely based on quality of opposition, but alos how many times have great fighters lost to good fighters? Mosley to Vernon Forrest, Kostya Tszyu to Phillips, Leonard to Terry Norris and Camacho, Holyfield against Michael Moorer. THese are just modern examples, but the list goes on and on.

No argument there, and there's many more examples, as you say. When that happens, you can usually attribute it to: style differences (Mosley-Forrest is a prime example), age or fighting peak (Leonard was past his peak and Norris was getting to his when they fought)... and sometimes just to the plain old fact that maybe the great fighter had a bad day when the good fighter had the fight of his life (Tyson-Douglas). So we agree that JMM is a great fighter, and Bradley is a good fighter.

What does size have to do with it? I don't think it's fair to say JMM hasn't moved up effectively, he just had to fight Mayweather while Pacquiao fought everyone else. None of them are Mayweather. Sure moving up has slowed Marquez down, but not any more so in comparison to the division he was fighting in. THe higher you go the slower the guys will be, and Marquez has done a tremendous job of maintaining his speed while moving up, its just once again, when he fought Mayweather who was naturally faster with that longer style and great defense he had no chance.

Oh, but size DOES have a lot to do with it. JMM may have "just fought Mayweather", but he looked and was totally outclassed and dominated. When has that EVER happened to JMM, even when he's lost against other fighters? 140 is not Juan Manuel's best weight, hands down. Many fighters attempt to jump weight classifications... only a precious few can do it effectively.

I'm not saying Bradley will have a better legacy than JMM, that would be crazy to say this early in his career and with the fact he has little knockout power, but at this moment he's a better fighter than JMM, he's more versatile and he's faster. He's actually shorter than JMM, and he doesn't really fight on the inside ala Hatton or DUran so I am not sure how much his size would play a factor.

You see... that's where I still disagree. Being a better fighter would imply he has: better ring generalship than Marquez (NOT), a better offensive arsenal than Marquez (NOT), more adaptability in the ring than Marquez (NOT), and a better resume than Marquez (a thousand times NOT). So yeah... he may beat Marquez at 140, but that doesn't make him a better fighter. That is a broad, sweeping statement that carries too much with it.

See comments above.

[Gandalf]

I think JMM/Bradley at 140 is a great matchup. Marquez can be just as big as Bradley and is so accurate in his counter punching. I love both fighters, but I'm not sure how it would go. They both bring very different things to the table.

I would really love to see this if it could happen within this year. In fact, if Marquez really wants to fight at 140 after Morales then this is the best first option as Bradley is just his size.

[UKPH]

Yes JMM moved up effectively on 135 from he bested at 126, but I doubt him at 140, he knows it also by fighting younger and bigger man like Bradley would be great I think its too much for him it would be competitive but he knows his limitation also if he move up.


Likewise if Marquez will try at 140 surely he can, he is the one best at any weight class but he and Nacho knows his limitation I guess no wonder he gets a rematch with J.Diaz or fighting Katsidis then Eric Morales rather than trying to get a fight like Ortiz, Maidana or even Amir at 140. I guess he can fight the best at 140 but imo he’ll make what is best to offer since we know that Marquez is also in his late stage on his career.

[Violent Demise]

If Bradley were to beat JMM at 140, and that's a huge IF... it would be based on two things: size and age.

JMM proved he is no Pacquiao when it comes to going up in weight. (Hell... no one else has done what Pacquiao has done, dirty or not). But JMM left no doubt of that when he took on Mayweather and was totally outclassed and dominated. And we all know 140 is not JMM's natural weight. So Bradley being the naturally bigger man DEFINITELY gives him an advantage. I also mention the "age" factor, because Father Time waits for no one. JMM is getting old for a boxer, just like everybody else... and that would also be a factor on Bradley's side.

BUT...... having said that.... PLEASE do not argue that Bradley would beat JMM because he's a better fighter. JMM is and has always been TWICE the fighter and boxer that Bradley can ever hope to be. Not dissing Bradley here... just putting things in perspective. I don't normally agree too much with VD, but I agree 100% here: Bradley is a good fighter. JMM is a GREAT fighter.

So yeah... at this point in time, and with the fight being at 140, I give Bradley a pretty good chance of beating JMM. Not a sure thing, mind you... but a pretty good chance.

People's perception of good and great are purely based on quality of opposition, but alos how many times have great fighters lost to good fighters? Mosley to Vernon Forrest, Kostya Tszyu to Phillips, Leonard to Terry Norris and Camacho, Holyfield against Michael Moorer. THese are just modern examples, but the list goes on and on.

What does size have to do with it? I don't think it's fair to say JMM hasn't moved up effectively, he just had to fight Mayweather while Pacquiao fought everyone else. None of them are Mayweather. Sure moving up has slowed Marquez down, but not any more so in comparison to the division he was fighting in. THe higher you go the slower the guys will be, and Marquez has done a tremendous job of maintaining his speed while moving up, its just once again, when he fought Mayweather who was naturally faster with that longer style and great defense he had no chance.

I'm not saying Bradley will have a better legacy than JMM, that would be crazy to say this early in his career and with the fact he has little knockout power, but at this moment he's a better fighter than JMM, he's more versatile and he's faster. He's actually shorter than JMM, and he doesn't really fight on the inside ala Hatton or DUran so I am not sure how much his size would play a factor.

Marquez is in his late 30's. He's declined some due to age. But even in his prime Marquez was never the strongest puncher. He was never the fastest fighter. Nor was he ever the best defensive fighter. Overall his skill package isn't on the level of Mayweathers or Pacquiao's. Even Con and Judah have better ones. But that doesn't matter. Cuz while the difference in skills puts Marquez at a disadvantage going into a fight, he levels the playing field with an extremely high boxing IQ. If Marquez isn't the smartest fighter in Boxing, he's clearly top 3. Marquez off sets the difference in skills with his intelligence. It's the reason Marquez can handle Pacquiao better than Cotto and Hatton could. He's smarter than all 3. When Marquez fought Mayweather he was in against a fighter who possesses as high a boxing IQ as he did. There intelligence off set each other. Which made it a skills fight. In which Marquez was just over matched. Look at the Casamayor fight. Another boxing genius who managed to off set Marquez's intelligence with his own. Good thing for Marquez, Casamayor's skills had eroded more than his. So he caught him late. But the scorecards show it was pretty much a draw up to that point. Fighters with more skill than Marquez he can handle. Fighters with more skill and a good boxing brain will always trouble him.

Which brings us to Timothy Bradley. Bradley is a good fighter like I said. And he has skills. But there not on the level of Mayweather or Pacquiao's skills. He's not super fast. And he doesn't have one punch knock out power. So Marquez will not be at that big a disadvantage against Bradley in the skill factor. If even at all. Factor in Marquez's intelligence and he goes into the fight with a significant advantage. I'm not saying Bradley is a dumb fighter. He just can't match Marquez's intelligence. And while the fight might start in Bradley's favor and give out the impression Bradley is gonna dominate Marquez. He won't. Marquez will weather the early storm like he's done so many times before. He'll make his adjustment. He'll than look for a specific target and focus on it. He'll get in a groove and expand his target area. At which point he'll take control of the fight. He'll break Bradley's will and start punishing him. Which will lead to the ref stopping the fight.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

The debates here only prove how great a fight this could be. It's a tough one to choose for me because I can only see a move to 140 as a further hindrance for Marquez. I don't think he has any particular struggles with 135

Anyway, I like the fact that both fighters are patient AND can be aggressive. Makes for a visually pleasing tactical fight.

[badr_hari]

If Bradley were to beat JMM at 140, and that's a huge IF... it would be based on two things: size and age.

Exactly, size, strength, speed and mostly age (37 is too much at lightweight) are factors that would make this match up INTERESTING and COMPETITIVE (for someone). JMM skills are superior compared to Bradley's, who has trouble throwing a 1-2-3 without going off balance.