Louis/Ali

[Majesty]

To me it has to be Joe. Because of how Joe acted as a champion, at a time when most white people still out and out hated blacks, he changed some white peoples opinions about blacks. Because of that a brash kid like Ali could come out and say whatever he wanted. Also Louis was beloved by almost all blacks, Ali was 50/50. Lots of conservative whites hated Ali and so did a fair amount of blacks who thought Ali was doing great harm with his ways.

Now some people will say that Joe acted like an "Uncle Tom" during his reign, never pushing the establishment to do something to change race relations but I disagree. Remember no black was allowed to fight for the title for 20+ after Jack Johnson lost the title. Joe was one slip up away from having it all pulled out from under him. I think Ali was greatly under the influence of Herbert Mohammad and the Nation of Islam and many of the “great social advancements” attributed to him where not of his idea.

Also there has been a lot of revisionist history about Ali. Maybe some of it is sympathy towards his illness but Ali was sometime horrible to the fighters he fought. What he did to Frazier was disgusting and was so cruel. I truly believe Ali’s reasons for not going to Vietnam where completely selfish and had nothing to do with being a “conscientious objector” It was all about losing time to make money. Now Ali’s post career, Louis has nothing to compare it to. Ali is probably the most recognizable figure in the entire world and is seen as a peace ambassador. What he has done since has been beautiful and should be commended.

I disagree with the bit in bold. I think he felt obliged to refuse as Elijah Muhammad, the NOI's leader, had refused draft to the army previously, and he (Ali) was encouraged to do the same. I doubt it was his idea solely, he was "pushed" into it if you will but I believe he agreed with the principle of the decision. Had he gone he never would have seen any "real" action, he probably would have boxed a few exhibitions for the soldiers. Also, if it was more selfish reasoning as you say, when he was made aware that he'd be stripped of the title, possibly sent to jail and be banned from boxing he'd have folded. Opinion also changed on Ali' and his draft refusal as public opinion on the Vietnam war began to change - more people of both colours that were previously unsympathetic with his stance softened due to a changing perception of the war. So in the long run I don't think it was too harmful a decision, except the obvious damage to his career as it led to such a long lay off.

Those are fair points and I agree somewhat but Ali never came out against the war until his draft status changed and there was a real chance he would get drafted. By the time Ali could have stepped back the public was very much against him and his chances to make money in the US were going away quickly. Even if Ali had joined he would have lost 2 years of his prime and he was a very active heavyweight fighting 3 or 4 times a year. That's alot of money to lose.

Good point. I think its a situation that can be argued either way, they're both plausible motives. The points you made definitely could be behind his reason for doing it, I've just always looked at it the other way

People use Ali's draft dodging against him but I rarely hear it brought up in the case of Sugar Ray Robinson. Why is that? When people mention Sugar Ray Robinson no one complains that he allegedly faked injury to get out of it or something or rather.