Louis/Ali

[brocktonblockbust]

i dont think you can pick which 1 did more to further the cause of blacks, mainly due to the very different time periods they lived in. totally different styles and personalities. louis served in the military and ali did not. the 60s were a time for going against the grain. louis' time was going with the flow/conforming and people hardly ever questioned their government. both did equally well for their cause.

i also disagree that ali dodged vietnam for selfish reasons. what's a selfish reason anyway? when has it become bad to do what is best for yourself? this is nuts.

[Saddo]

Very cool thread and i agree with this...

i dont think you can pick which 1 did more to further the cause of blacks, mainly due to the very different time periods they lived in. totally different styles and personalities. louis served in the military and ali did not. the 60s were a time for going against the grain. louis' time was going with the flow/conforming and people hardly ever questioned their government. both did equally well for their cause.

one thing is for sure they where both used to push agendas ... Louis was used by system where as Ali was used by Elijah Muhammad.

i remember watching some documentary and the wife of Malcolm X stated that Elijah Muhammad told Malcolm X to stay away from the first Liston fight as it would look bad for the nation of islam when Ali loses... All i have seen is footage of Elijah Muhammad milking it for all its worth after the event.

also remember seeing footage of Louis coming out and slating Ali for draft dodging... seems harsh since Ali helped Louis with cash back then.

[Cressa121]

Very cool thread and i agree with this...

i dont think you can pick which 1 did more to further the cause of blacks, mainly due to the very different time periods they lived in. totally different styles and personalities. louis served in the military and ali did not. the 60s were a time for going against the grain. louis' time was going with the flow/conforming and people hardly ever questioned their government. both did equally well for their cause.

one thing is for sure they where both used to push agendas ... Louis was used by system where as Ali was used by Elijah Muhammad.

i remember watching some documentary and the wife of Malcolm X stated that Elijah Muhammad told Malcolm X to stay away from the first Liston fight as it would look bad for the nation of islam when Ali loses... All i have seen is footage of Elijah Muhammad milking it for all its worth after the event.

also remember seeing footage of Louis coming out and slating Ali for draft dodging... seems harsh since Ali helped Louis with cash back then.

I don't know if you've read King of the World by David Remnick, but it focuses on Ali in the early 60's when he was fighting Liston and Patterson and converted to Islam. It says that the NOI were reluctant to embrace him as they thought he could do more damage to their reputation than good...until he beat Liston that is. Then almost immediately he was welcomed in by Elijah Muhammad and was given the new name.

I also didn't know before reading the book that the promoter from the first Clay-Liston fight came close to pulling the plug on it a few weeks beforehand as rumours of his conversion surfaced. They didn't want the title to be in the hands of the NOI and they thought ticket sales were suffering because of it. Someone talked him around but they had to keep it quiet until after the fight