The Solution: Create a Superheavyweight Division FAST!

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I think some people are forgetting that Heavyweights are so isolated from the cruiser-weight division. Not only that but not many Light-Heavyweights travel up to Cruiser-weight these days either...

It would benefit boxing if there was a Re-Hash somewhere along the line... Maybe the Cruiser weight division could go back to 190lbs and maybe a super-cruiser weight division with a limit of 210lbs could be introduced?

I know that straight away most septics would immediately assume that because the Cruiser-weight division is shit, that the Super-Cruiser-weight would be just as shit but you have to look at the bigger picture... More fighters from Light Heavyweight could fight at Cruiser-Weight.... Not only that but you would probably find that a lot of fighters from Super Middleweight would also (realistically) aspire to fight regularly at Cruiser-weight.

So you can see that straight away the Cruiser-Weight division becomes a more illustrious division simply because it becomes more accessible from both above and below.

So then obviously, logic dictates that the Super-Cruiser-weight division is afforded the same privileges when it has a melting pot of both the aforementioned pedigree of the division below and of course, fighters who currently fight at around 220lbs-230lbs who could easily make 210lbs if they wanted to.

Current and Historical fighters (1980's onwards) such as:

David Haye
Michael Spinks
Tomasz Adamek
Antonio Tarver
James Toney
Alexander Povetkin
Michael Moorer
Denis Boytsov
Evander Holyfield
Timur Ibragimov
Chris Byrd

Now it's easy to see what kind of division the Super-Cruiser-weight could be, as long as it was properly made to accommodate all the other divisions around it (i.e lowering the Cruiserweight limit back to 184lbs) but also, there are some truly gifted fighters who could of really found a home there.... Michael Moorer, Chris Byrd, Tomasz Adamek & David Haye all could of been regarded as GREAT at that division because that is probably their best weight to fight at and obviously it would be great if all their opponents were the same weight right?

So there you have it, I have officially changed my mind. I no longer want a Super Heavyweight division, I want a Super Cruiserweight division

[brocktonblockbust]

great points on the super cruiser thing. i dont think guys who normally weigh-in at an in-shape 230 could make 210, however. tha's a huge drop for a guy that size.

[bzkfn]

Jimbo, again a Super-Cruiser division is pointless, as the likes of Haye would continue to fight at Heavy because of the glamour and financial aspect associated to the "Heavyweight Champion" name. Adding the word "Super" to it doesn't make either division sound more appealing, and the general public will once again be more confused at the distorted view of boxing.

Remember, another division means countless more champions. Do we really need anymore?

[AdamGB]

Whether you call them Heavyweights or Super Heavyweights doesn't matter... the prestige will always be for the heaviest division... whatever name you give it.

Creating a Super Cruiser weight or a Super heavyweight won't change the fact that the biggest guys are horrible and in my opinion just adds even more unnecessary weight classes.

[brocktonblockbust]

imagine Willie Pep against Valuev

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

great points on the super cruiser thing. i dont think guys who normally weigh-in at an in-shape 230 could make 210, however. tha's a huge drop for a guy that size.

I disagree but that's not the point. It could be jiggled around in some way, to make it accessible...

The main point is, that it brings all the top 5 divisions A LOT closer together.

Jimbo, again a Super-Cruiser division is pointless, as the likes of Haye would continue to fight at Heavy because of the glamour and financial aspect associated to the "Heavyweight Champion" name. Adding the word "Super" to it doesn't make either division sound more appealing, and the general public will once again be more confused at the distorted view of boxing.

Remember, another division means countless more champions. Do we really need anymore?

I think this is a slightly short sighted response. (No offense buddy!)

Firstly, Haye no doubt is a glory hunter but you forget that he fought at Cruiserweight for as long as he could. Do you honestly think he wouldn't of preferred to fight without a 200lbs limit for a while before snatching a belt off a Heavyweight? Of course he would, and look at the potential match up's there could of been...

Secondly, I have absolutely no doubt that most of the boxers around the 225lbs mark would prefer to fight at Heavyweight but then I have no doubt that they would want to fight at 210ish either, especially if it meant picking up a strap from a division that could easily have the likes of Andre Ward, Chad Dawson, Tomasz Ademek & David Haye in it... That's a fantastic division right there!

I'm of the thinking that if the weight classes are brought together and made more accessible so that fighters around the 200lbs are mixing in better company with fighters BOTH bigger and smaller then you start to then add more prestige to all the weight classes in and around it... Including most importantly the Heavyweight division.

***Edit***AdamGB and such like peoples....
If you truly believe boxing has too many weight classes, then look to the bottom of the pile. 3 and 4 pound differentials... I agree, it's a joke.
However, there's a real problem at the top of the scales that needs to be re-addressed IMHO, the gap needs to be bridged from 175 upwards.

[Kev]

In my opinion people are trying to look for a solution without there being a problem.

The big freaks in the heavyweight division aren't even close to taking the division over. On the contrary they routinely get out boxed and beaten up by blown up cruisers.

What giant heavyweights are ruining boxing exactly?

The Klitchsko's are dominating boxing because they are by far the best boxers in the division. They turn up motivated, in shape, they have talent and ability and respect the sport enough to make sure they give 100% inside and outside the ring.

Whether you find them boring or not they are worthy world champions. Surely the fact that the guys given the greatest shot at beating them are also some of the smallest fighters at the weight shows it's not about size.

[AdamGB]

great points on the super cruiser thing. i dont think guys who normally weigh-in at an in-shape 230 could make 210, however. tha's a huge drop for a guy that size.

I disagree but that's not the point. It could be jiggled around in some way, to make it accessible...

The main point is, that it brings all the top 5 divisions A LOT closer together.

Jimbo, again a Super-Cruiser division is pointless, as the likes of Haye would continue to fight at Heavy because of the glamour and financial aspect associated to the "Heavyweight Champion" name. Adding the word "Super" to it doesn't make either division sound more appealing, and the general public will once again be more confused at the distorted view of boxing.

Remember, another division means countless more champions. Do we really need anymore?

I think this is a slightly short sighted response. (No offense buddy!)

Firstly, Haye no doubt is a glory hunter but you forget that he fought at Cruiserweight for as long as he could. Do you honestly think he wouldn't of preferred to fight without a 200lbs limit for a while before snatching a belt off a Heavyweight? Of course he would, and look at the potential match up's there could of been...

Secondly, I have absolutely no doubt that most of the boxers around the 225lbs mark would prefer to fight at Heavyweight but then I have no doubt that they would want to fight at 210ish either, especially if it meant picking up a strap from a division that could easily have the likes of Andre Ward, Chad Dawson, Tomasz Ademek & David Haye in it... That's a fantastic division right there!

I'm of the thinking that if the weight classes are brought together and made more accessible so that fighters around the 200lbs are mixing in better company with fighters BOTH bigger and smaller then you start to then add more prestige to all the weight classes in and around it... Including most importantly the Heavyweight division.

***Edit***AdamGB and such like peoples....
If you truly believe boxing has too many weight classes, then look to the bottom of the pile. 3 and 4 pound differentials... I agree, it's a joke.
However, there's a real problem at the top of the scales that needs to be re-addressed IMHO, the gap needs to be bridged from 175 upwards.

I was actually going to say this... but didn't think it was 100% relevant, I have a hard time taking a lot of the lighter weights seriously when the difference is like 4 pounds.

When they weight difference is the same as taking a crap/not taking a crap you have to worry.

I know the argument here is - if those guys need 4 pounds then bigger guys shouldn't have to have differnces of 20,30,40 pounds.

But I think Bilbo is right... Heavyweights reach a critical mass... the big ones tend to either be shite or plain out of shape. There simply isn't enough legitimate big men to need a whole new division.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Heavyweights reach a critical mass... the big ones tend to either be shite or plain out of shape. There simply isn't enough legitimate big men to need a whole new division.

I agree... I really do but I just feel that the bridge between Light Heavyweight And Heavyweight isn't facilitated by Cruiserweight at all.

Light Heavyweights don't hardly ever move upto Cruiserweight and Cruiserweights don't ever fight at Heavyweight.

Of course Haye has kicked off a little trend but I bet that'll fizzle out as soon as Ademek gets his blocked knocked of by KitschkoTBA

[Spicoli]

Last thing in the world we need is another over fed division handing out trinkets really . We actually had a super cruiserweight division (bit of an oxy moron ha) and I believe its initial champion was Bobby Czyz...it didn't last Talk of spr hvy exploded back when Grant was coming up, Lewis was in the swing, Goofy Whitaker for heavens sake lol...Dont need bigger....we just need better, and willing!! Valuev was as big as they come but the carnival fascination didn't translate into skillset...vs two 'cruisers' moved up to hvy btw. One old enough to be his pappy.

[Kev]

Heavyweights reach a critical mass... the big ones tend to either be shite or plain out of shape. There simply isn't enough legitimate big men to need a whole new division.

I agree... I really do but I just feel that the bridge between Light Heavyweight And Heavyweight isn't facilitated by Cruiserweight at all.

Light Heavyweights don't hardly ever move upto Cruiserweight and Cruiserweights don't ever fight at Heavyweight.

Of course Haye has kicked off a little trend but I bet that'll fizzle out as soon as Ademek gets his blocked knocked of by KitschkoTBA

Completely untrue. Michael Spinks, Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones Jr, James Toney, David Haye, Tomasz Adamek, Jean Marc Mormeck, even Antonio Tarver have all had heavyweight fights and 5 of them have won world titles, although Toney didn't keep his.

The heavyweight limit is already very different and much higher from what it used to be and is essentially already superheavyweight.

Rocky Marciano, Joe Luis and Jack Dempsey all weighed under 200lbs and would be fighting in the cruiserweight division in today's weight limits.

Considering they are three of the top 10 greatest heavies of all time, arguably top 5 it's really hard to justify having another two weight divisions above them.

[El Kabong]

Moorer's chin wasn't horrible, he went toe to toe with Holyfield and took a hellacious shot from Foreman and with his bad attitude and his refusal to stay in shape it shortened his career.

[El Kabong]

The scary thing is Brock, that 3 time gold medalist Felix Savon weighed under or at 201 for his career and not only did he 1 punch KO David Tua, he was 6'5.....so I'm just going to go ahead and say "you can't legislate fairness" some big guys fight great, some are bums, but they are all human and can all be beaten.

[brocktonblockbust]

"big" guys like Clay/Ali (for his time) look how big he looked against Folley, Cooper, Quarry, Patterson, Marciano, Frazier (who were the traditional heavy size)......then Ali starts getting equalled or dwarfed in size by the mid-70s by Norton, Wepner, Foreman, Bugner, Holmes, etc in weight and size......my point is that Ali used to weigh-in at what, 214 in his prime (not talking bout that young kid Clay who coulda made supermiddleweight practically!)....BUT guys who weighed in at 230 IN SHAPE----how could they realistically lose 20 pounds and be effective at 210? I think it would sap their strength/endurance----look what happnened to Bowe when he rematched Golota, he came in light as a feather and was shot by round 4. Can anyone imagine Lennox Lewis, Michael Grant, David Tua trying to make 210--------NFW!!!!!!!! I support a SuperHeavyweight Division. Calculate a boxer's SuperHeavy percentage like a baseball player's Slugging percentage. Height/reach/weight all averaged in.

[Spicoli]

Just rewatched that one yeh, Bowe v Golota 2 . Sad really. Think a case of Bowe coming in the weight he was at very best (vs Holyfield 1) but pure imposter in regards to what was left. He didn't do himself any good balooning up though...never consistent. Think Ali was more a steady progression into weight...its the rage now and especially at 200 range, the talk of 'when do you jump up to hvy' etc. Still looked at as the money division and lifeblood of the sport , which blows me away. The bigger is no where near the better in many cases.