David Haye vs Wladimir on July 2nd is going to be announced today

[El Kabong]

It's a pretty sad day for the HW division when a fight between 2 average HWs is considered to be arguably the biggest fight in the sport today.

Haye and Wlad would have gotten their ass whipped by most of the top 10 HWs in the 90s. Hell both of them would have to be extremely lucky to pick up an ABC paper title in that decade.

My oh my how the most glamourous division has come to this.

I don't know about the current WBA title holder but Wladimir certainly could have picked up a title in the 1990's. I think a Prime Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are the only fighters he would have stumbled/struggled against.

Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs, Donovan Ruddock....I don't see Wlad having trouble with those guys

Are you mad??

OK let's go through them shall we?

Michael Moorer: PROS: Southpaw, fast hands, solid power CONS: No heart, no chin, fought AGAINST his trainer's advise when it wasn't in his best interest.

Riddick Bowe: PROS: Big, decent chin, big heart, physically gifted in height and reach CONS: NEVER fought a power puncher, routinely ballooned up in weight between fights and wasn't always in the best shape, and other than Holyfield & Golota he fought NO ONE.

Mike Tyson: PROS: Big power, fast hands, rock solid chin CONS: the post prison Mike Tyson relied on 1 punch KO power and seldom used head movement, combinations, hell he seldom trained at that point in his career he had trouble beating Frans Botha.

Ray Mercer: PROS: Solid chin, big power, good stamina CONS: even in his prime he got outboxed by Holmes...Wlad beat him later in his career but Wlad has since progressed and is an even better boxer now.

George Foreman:PROS: HUGE power, great chin, mentally tough CONS: Slow a foot, slow hands, and not mobile at all...it took a fighter willingly fighting his fight for him to win the belt again. Say what you will about Wlad but he ALWAYS fights HIS fight and not someone else's

Larry Holmes:PROS: Solid boxer, great jab, decent defense, cerebral fighter CONS: Well out of his prime, slower and even during his prime he was apt to defensive lapses...it wouldn't help vs Wlad.

Tommy Morrison: PROS: 1 punch KO power in either hand, big heart CONS: Dodgy chin, lacked stamina, not difficult to hit

Shannon Briggs:PROS: Big, athletic, strong, good power, fast hands CONS: Dodgy chin, questionable stamina and heart, and prone to "asthma attacks"

Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock:PROS: Big power, used angles well, good reach CONS: Easy to hit, not the toughest mental fighter, stamina issues due to not taking care of himself and dodgy chin

...there I finished the list since I had nothing better to do. Anyone else you can think of? Golota? Tua? McCall? Rahman?

[rjj tszyu]

It's a pretty sad day for the HW division when a fight between 2 average HWs is considered to be arguably the biggest fight in the sport today.

Haye and Wlad would have gotten their ass whipped by most of the top 10 HWs in the 90s. Hell both of them would have to be extremely lucky to pick up an ABC paper title in that decade.

My oh my how the most glamourous division has come to this.

I don't know about the current WBA title holder but Wladimir certainly could have picked up a title in the 1990's. I think a Prime Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are the only fighters he would have stumbled/struggled against.

Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs, Donovan Ruddock....I don't see Wlad having trouble with those guys

Are you mad??

OK let's go through them shall we?

Michael Moorer: PROS: Southpaw, fast hands, solid power CONS: No heart, no chin, fought AGAINST his trainer's advise when it wasn't in his best interest.

Riddick Bowe: PROS: Big, decent chin, big heart, physically gifted in height and reach CONS: NEVER fought a power puncher, routinely ballooned up in weight between fights and wasn't always in the best shape, and other than Holyfield & Golota he fought NO ONE.

Mike Tyson: PROS: Big power, fast hands, rock solid chin CONS: the post prison Mike Tyson relied on 1 punch KO power and seldom used head movement, combinations, hell he seldom trained at that point in his career he had trouble beating Frans Botha.

Ray Mercer: PROS: Solid chin, big power, good stamina CONS: even in his prime he got outboxed by Holmes...Wlad beat him later in his career but Wlad has since progressed and is an even better boxer now.

George Foreman:PROS: HUGE power, great chin, mentally tough CONS: Slow a foot, slow hands, and not mobile at all...it took a fighter willingly fighting his fight for him to win the belt again. Say what you will about Wlad but he ALWAYS fights HIS fight and not someone else's

Larry Holmes:PROS: Solid boxer, great jab, decent defense, cerebral fighter CONS: Well out of his prime, slower and even during his prime he was apt to defensive lapses...it wouldn't help vs Wlad.

Tommy Morrison: PROS: 1 punch KO power in either hand, big heart CONS: Dodgy chin, lacked stamina, not difficult to hit

Shannon Briggs:PROS: Big, athletic, strong, good power, fast hands CONS: Dodgy chin, questionable stamina and heart, and prone to "asthma attacks"

Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock:PROS: Big power, used angles well, good reach CONS: Easy to hit, not the toughest mental fighter, stamina issues due to not taking care of himself and dodgy chin

...there I finished the list since I had nothing better to do. Anyone else you can think of? Golota? Tua? McCall? Rahman?

Well I haven't time right now to argue the full post but for now I'll just say I disagree with your opinion on Briggs' chin. I always thought he had a very decent chin. Not many could take he shots he took off Lennox that night and I honestly think that version of Briggs would beat Wlad. And the other point (for now)is you say Bowe ONLY fought Evander and Golota. Well Evander is an ATG who Bowe fought and beat in his prime. It may not have been Evanders best performance but in age and skill he was in his prime. Wlad has never been in with an ATG in their prime or past it for that matter (that is not his fault) so I don't know how you can knock Bowes competition!!

[generalbulldog]

It's a pretty sad day for the HW division when a fight between 2 average HWs is considered to be arguably the biggest fight in the sport today.

Haye and Wlad would have gotten their ass whipped by most of the top 10 HWs in the 90s. Hell both of them would have to be extremely lucky to pick up an ABC paper title in that decade.

My oh my how the most glamourous division has come to this.

I don't know about the current WBA title holder but Wladimir certainly could have picked up a title in the 1990's. I think a Prime Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are the only fighters he would have stumbled/struggled against.

Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs, Donovan Ruddock....I don't see Wlad having trouble with those guys

Are you mad??

OK let's go through them shall we?

Michael Moorer: PROS: Southpaw, fast hands, solid power CONS: No heart, no chin, fought AGAINST his trainer's advise when it wasn't in his best interest.

Riddick Bowe: PROS: Big, decent chin, big heart, physically gifted in height and reach CONS: NEVER fought a power puncher, routinely ballooned up in weight between fights and wasn't always in the best shape, and other than Holyfield & Golota he fought NO ONE.

Mike Tyson: PROS: Big power, fast hands, rock solid chin CONS: the post prison Mike Tyson relied on 1 punch KO power and seldom used head movement, combinations, hell he seldom trained at that point in his career he had trouble beating Frans Botha.

Ray Mercer: PROS: Solid chin, big power, good stamina CONS: even in his prime he got outboxed by Holmes...Wlad beat him later in his career but Wlad has since progressed and is an even better boxer now.

George Foreman:PROS: HUGE power, great chin, mentally tough CONS: Slow a foot, slow hands, and not mobile at all...it took a fighter willingly fighting his fight for him to win the belt again. Say what you will about Wlad but he ALWAYS fights HIS fight and not someone else's

Larry Holmes:PROS: Solid boxer, great jab, decent defense, cerebral fighter CONS: Well out of his prime, slower and even during his prime he was apt to defensive lapses...it wouldn't help vs Wlad.

Tommy Morrison: PROS: 1 punch KO power in either hand, big heart CONS: Dodgy chin, lacked stamina, not difficult to hit

Shannon Briggs:PROS: Big, athletic, strong, good power, fast hands CONS: Dodgy chin, questionable stamina and heart, and prone to "asthma attacks"

Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock:PROS: Big power, used angles well, good reach CONS: Easy to hit, not the toughest mental fighter, stamina issues due to not taking care of himself and dodgy chin

...there I finished the list since I had nothing better to do. Anyone else you can think of? Golota? Tua? McCall? Rahman?

Well I haven't time right now to argue the full post but for now I'll just say I disagree with your opinion on Briggs' chin. I always thought he had a very decent chin. Not many could take he shots he took off Lennox that night and I honestly think that version of Briggs would beat Wlad. And the other point (for now)is you say Bowe ONLY fought Evander and Golota. Well Evander is an ATG who Bowe fought and beat in his prime. It may not have been Evanders best performance but in age and skill he was in his prime. Wlad has never been in with an ATG in their prime or past it for that matter (that is not his fault) so I don't know how you can knock Bowes competition!!

Exactly. Bowe beat an undefeated and prime Holyfield. Wlad has yet to face any HW today that is even half as good as that version of Holyfield. Fact.

[boxingbantz]

Definately tommorrow, I swear.

How dare you. How VERY dare you.

[El Kabong]

Exactly. Bowe beat an undefeated and prime Holyfield. Wlad has yet to face any HW today that is even half as good as that version of Holyfield. Fact.

The wins over Holyfield don't make Bowe great or difficult for Wladimir to beat infact I consider them "outliers". Look at Bowe's record who did he fight? Who did he beat? And why is nothing made of the FACT that Andrew Golota (a lesser skilled boxer/puncher than Wlad) schooled Bowe TWICE yet fouled himself out of winning the bouts? Was Bowe past his best? Well surely the man had more than just 2 big (meaningful fights) and 5 total big fights vs top competition (3 vs Evander 2 vs Golota). I can't (without the help of boxrec) think of 3 top rate fighters Bowe fought outside of Holyfield.

Suggesting Bowe would beat Wlad or be even difficult for Wlad to beat just because of the bouts vs Holyfield is like saying Vernon Forrest would be tough for oh I don't know Ricardo Mayorga to beat because Forrest beat Shane Mosley....it's not apples to apples...styles make fights.

Shannon Briggs fought an unenthusiastic Lennox Lewis and STILL got trounced...Wlad would have taken less risks.

[generalbulldog]

Exactly. Bowe beat an undefeated and prime Holyfield. Wlad has yet to face any HW today that is even half as good as that version of Holyfield. Fact.

The wins over Holyfield don't make Bowe great or difficult for Wladimir to beat infact I consider them "outliers". Look at Bowe's record who did he fight? Who did he beat? And why is nothing made of the FACT that Andrew Golota (a lesser skilled boxer/puncher than Wlad) schooled Bowe TWICE yet fouled himself out of winning the bouts? Was Bowe past his best? Well surely the man had more than just 2 big (meaningful fights) and 5 total big fights vs top competition (3 vs Evander 2 vs Golota). I can't (without the help of boxrec) think of 3 top rate fighters Bowe fought outside of Holyfield.

Suggesting Bowe would beat Wlad or be even difficult for Wlad to beat just because of the bouts vs Holyfield is like saying Vernon Forrest would be tough for oh I don't know Ricardo Mayorga to beat because Forrest beat Shane Mosley....it's not apples to apples...styles make fights.

Shannon Briggs fought an unenthusiastic Lennox Lewis and STILL got trounced...Wlad would have taken less risks.

I didn't say anything about Bowe beating Wlad, I'm talking about that victory on Bowe's resume. The reality is that Bowe was the 1st person to beat Holyfield and a prime one at that too. Wlad doesn't have anyone on his resume that is even half as good as prime Holyfield. Fact.

Unless you think Peter or Byrd or Chagaev is the equivalent of prime Holyfield.

[HattonTheHammer]

Exactly. Bowe beat an undefeated and prime Holyfield. Wlad has yet to face any HW today that is even half as good as that version of Holyfield. Fact.

The wins over Holyfield don't make Bowe great or difficult for Wladimir to beat infact I consider them "outliers". Look at Bowe's record who did he fight? Who did he beat? And why is nothing made of the FACT that Andrew Golota (a lesser skilled boxer/puncher than Wlad) schooled Bowe TWICE yet fouled himself out of winning the bouts? Was Bowe past his best? Well surely the man had more than just 2 big (meaningful fights) and 5 total big fights vs top competition (3 vs Evander 2 vs Golota). I can't (without the help of boxrec) think of 3 top rate fighters Bowe fought outside of Holyfield.

Suggesting Bowe would beat Wlad or be even difficult for Wlad to beat just because of the bouts vs Holyfield is like saying Vernon Forrest would be tough for oh I don't know Ricardo Mayorga to beat because Forrest beat Shane Mosley....it's not apples to apples...styles make fights.

Shannon Briggs fought an unenthusiastic Lennox Lewis and STILL got trounced...Wlad would have taken less risks.

I didn't say anything about Bowe beating Wlad, I'm talking about that victory on Bowe's resume. The reality is that Bowe was the 1st person to beat Holyfield and a prime one at that too. Wlad doesn't have anyone on his resume that is even half as good as prime Holyfield. Fact.

Unless you think Peter or Byrd or Chagaev is the equivalent of prime Holyfield.

holyfields record at heavy pre-bowe involved beating up a couple of old legends who didnt know when to call it a day and james "one hit wonder" douglas and was giving away some 30 odd pounds on the night

not as impressive as you think

[ninjaspy3]

Exactly. Bowe beat an undefeated and prime Holyfield. Wlad has yet to face any HW today that is even half as good as that version of Holyfield. Fact.

The wins over Holyfield don't make Bowe great or difficult for Wladimir to beat infact I consider them "outliers". Look at Bowe's record who did he fight? Who did he beat? And why is nothing made of the FACT that Andrew Golota (a lesser skilled boxer/puncher than Wlad) schooled Bowe TWICE yet fouled himself out of winning the bouts? Was Bowe past his best? Well surely the man had more than just 2 big (meaningful fights) and 5 total big fights vs top competition (3 vs Evander 2 vs Golota). I can't (without the help of boxrec) think of 3 top rate fighters Bowe fought outside of Holyfield.

Suggesting Bowe would beat Wlad or be even difficult for Wlad to beat just because of the bouts vs Holyfield is like saying Vernon Forrest would be tough for oh I don't know Ricardo Mayorga to beat because Forrest beat Shane Mosley....it's not apples to apples...styles make fights.

Shannon Briggs fought an unenthusiastic Lennox Lewis and STILL got trounced...Wlad would have taken less risks.

I didn't say anything about Bowe beating Wlad, I'm talking about that victory on Bowe's resume. The reality is that Bowe was the 1st person to beat Holyfield and a prime one at that too. Wlad doesn't have anyone on his resume that is even half as good as prime Holyfield. Fact.

Unless you think Peter or Byrd or Chagaev is the equivalent of prime Holyfield.

holyfields record at heavy pre-bowe involved beating up a couple of old legends who didnt know when to call it a day and james "one hit wonder" douglas and was giving away some 30 odd pounds on the night

not as impressive as you think

But we must not forget that Holyfield put in a decent showing against Lewis. That's gotta be worth something, given the fact that Lewis was probably Vitali's top fight.