Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
Quote Originally Posted by miles View Post
There is a natural self. It is the me that is typing these thoughts and the me who reads what I read and the me who plans my lessons etc. This is what makes me an individual. I am an individual who is capable of making conscious decisions quite distinct from others. It is finite and limited, but while it lasts it is what I am.

I just don't understand how we can say that a gloomy or depressed disposition is not natural. To the person predisposed to that condition surely that is a normal state of affairs? That is what they have been born and raised with and that is what they must work through. If they cannot procreate then that is their hard luck. They should at least have pretended to be cheerful on a date.

As one who has no particular desire to pass on genes to any other poor little chap, I don't really have too many opinions regarding the need to create offspring. I don't really see the need for that and probably think more like the resourceful panda than a rabbit. I have probably learned from my parents in that regard...to resist and reject it all.

I just think a natural condition is the way that one was intended to be so why interfere with that process? If they can't pass on their genes? Well, who cares? Maybe it's better for the world that more depressed people don't get pregnant as the world is getting rather full as it is.

How so? You don't have a soul right? The thinking processes are just a part of your physical brain, so if somebody has a different chemical balance they would think differently and effectively be somebody else.

You are merely a chemical receptor and responder with a big haddrive of memories of past experiences.

You are not you, it's just part of your brain that has memories of past events stored and the current receptors in your brain give meaning to that in order to learn from past events which gives you the illusion of having a personality thought. But you don't really, how could you? The atoms andmolecues that made up your body 10 years ago have virtually all died and been replaced now. You are no longer who you were 10 years ago, your brain merely has stored that organisms past experiences to learn from and to be able to interact within the world today.

Stop talking about self, its a religious concept, not a scientific one. You are a very confused man...
You are indeed trying to draw me in. The natural self is who I am. I am the product of human beings with minds of their own who decided to do whatever they did. If I am not natural then I don't know what is. It is also easily explainable through science.

The self is a scientific concept too Bilbo. It is individuals who create the science by which we make sense of this world.

Religion itself was created by man and not god. The self is a very human and in turn scientific concept. I see no real difficulty with that.

That's my last post on that topic. Not because you have won, but because people seem to think that I am ignorant on this topic and I am not so sure that I am. I want to discuss this for a bit.