Ali v Liston

[Master]

Yes heard the same thing, Ali really must have pushed his training to get a hernia.

Foreman was cut and had his fight delayed with Ali, that may have helped Ali get in better condition in Zaire.

[marbleheadmaui]

Nice post. I too think they oughtta bring champions who are in the building into the ring before the main event. I'd also like to see fighters glove up in the ring after the actual oppoenent has examined the wraps. Those two things could happen at the same time.

There continues to be talk about the first fight being fixed. I've watched that fight a dozen times and I just don't see it. Liston was all marked up and he was throwing bombs while Ali was blind. He was just in there with an athlete from another planet.

Poor Floyd. He couldda fought Sonny a hundred times and never made it out of the third round.

[generalbulldog]

Ali and Liston was when the modern 200+ pound HW era started and Floyd was the last HW champ to be under 200 pounds. In other words this was just the changing of the guard. Or should I say HW?

[greynotsoold]

Floyd was the second, or maybe third, worst hW champ of all time, ahead of only Johannsson for sure. Maybe he was better than Marvin Hart (lost to Burns), but I don't know much about him.

[marbleheadmaui]

Floyd was the second, or maybe third, worst hW champ of all time, ahead of only Johannsson for sure. Maybe he was better than Marvin Hart (lost to Burns), but I don't know much about him.

I'd argue he was better than Braddock or Primo Carnera or .......geeze am I out of names already?

[Mars_ax]

Floyd was the second, or maybe third, worst hW champ of all time, ahead of only Johannsson for sure. Maybe he was better than Marvin Hart (lost to Burns), but I don't know much about him.

After Marciano retired in 1955, Patterson fought in a World Heavyweight Title eliminator against Tommy Jackson, after winning that fight by a SD, Patterson knocked out Archie Moore in the 5th round to win Marciano's vacated World Heavyweight Title in 1956. Patterson was far from great as a HW champion, but I wouldn't call him one of the worst, I give him credit for persevering and being persistent.
As for Patterson's 2 fights with both Liston and Ali, he basically just got bitch slapped by both bigger, stronger, and in Ali's case, more talented men.

In re: the 2 Liston vs. Ali fights, the first fight was legit, in the 2nd fight, it was either a mob fix, or Liston just decided to quit, the punch Ali hit Liston with to stop the 2nd fight, couldn't have crushed a grape.

Ali vs. Liston II - full fight:

[Master]

In that fight Liston still wanted to fight Ali, if he wanted to give up he would have stayed down for longer than the 10 count. He starts fighting again with Ali. So I think it was a legit punch.

[Mars_ax]

In that fight Liston still wanted to fight Ali, if he wanted to give up he would have stayed down for longer than the 10 count. He starts fighting again with Ali. So I think it was a legit punch.

Liston did get up, but I believe he thought the fight was over, in fact, if I remember right, the ref Joe Walcott, had fucked up the count, let the fight resume, but in meantime the timekeeper told Walcott the fight was over after the KD, and he stopped it. I still don't think the punch was hard enough to hurt Liston, it was all an act, but that's just me. I figure the mob made a killing on the 1st round KO.

[ICB]

Floyd was the second, or maybe third, worst hW champ of all time, ahead of only Johannsson for sure. Maybe he was better than Marvin Hart (lost to Burns), but I don't know much about him.

You are kidding right ? i can think of a whole lot of Heavyweight champions in this era that were worse than Floyd Patterson. Who's only downfall was being too small, and could of been an all time at Light Heavyweight.

[boxzine]

wish Ali would'a quit when he still had legs.

[greynotsoold]

wish Ali would'a quit when he still had legs.

If Ali had quit when he still had legs, he would not be considered "the greatest" because that didn't start to gain hold, really, until after the Foreman fight and the last Frazier fight. Strangley enough, it was undiminished by sound losses to Frazier in the first fight, Norton (who couldn't fight much at all), aloss to Leon Spinks, and gift decisions over Jimmy Young and Earnie Shavers (neither of whom could fight much, either).

[greynotsoold]

Floyd was the second, or maybe third, worst hW champ of all time, ahead of only Johannsson for sure. Maybe he was better than Marvin Hart (lost to Burns), but I don't know much about him.

You are kidding right ? i can think of a whole lot of Heavyweight champions in this era that were worse than Floyd Patterson. Who's only downfall was being too small, and could of been an all time at Light Heavyweight.

I was just considering up until the end of the Lewis era, actually. After that I mostly quit paying attention, and there got to be 7 and 8 champions at a time. Given that, I guess he was better than Douglas, Moorer, and Briggs.

[marbleheadmaui]

Ali and Liston was when the modern 200+ pound HW era started and Floyd was the last HW champ to be under 200 pounds. In other words this was just the changing of the guard. Or should I say HW?

He wasn't just short, his reach was only like 70 inches.