Opinion from a "Pactard"

[Chino]

Dont let these fools get to you man. They will discredit pac no matter what

Pactards discredit Floyd too. Remember when he fought Shane first? Now Pac fights an older Shane and pactards make it sound as if he beat the greatest ever.

It goes both ways for Floyd and Manny unfortunately.

Who is saying pac beat the greatest ever? can you post that here for all of us to see?

Not the exact words but you guys make it seem as if SSM was a good opponent from past threads. I didn't even give Floyd that much credit for beating SSM. Tell me, do you think Pac deserves credit for beating an aging down-the-hill big name (SSM)?

The win itself does little to add to pacs resume but the fact that pac dropped and had Shane worried of getting ko'ed adds on to pacs ring reputation.

Yes, an aging down-the-hill guy getting worried of getting ko-ed. I'll give you that, he was on survival mode for 12 rounds. He only threw an effective straight right on round 1 that connected pac to his chin but didn't follow up or throw anything else after that.

[CutMeMick]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

[killersheep]

haha, man it's kinda sad that ya'll need to console each other after your boy won.

Anywho, SSM blew it as expected huffin, puffin gun shy.

I don't hold what happened in the ropes against Pac at all, he had an unwilling dance partner. The choice of opponent it must be said was a waste of time. Pac has done amazing things in his time feats unparalleled by anyone else in the history of boxing, THIS fight however had nothing to do with that.

[killersheep]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

[killersheep]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

[generalbulldog]

It's not just Manny but Floyd as well in that the bar is set extremely high. Take Sergio Martinez. People were saying he's the new and real top fighter in the sport not Manny and Floyd. And they were defending Martinez possibly fighting Ishida, a C level fighter that is a journeyman that defeated a hot prospect. Then the fight with Sergei Dzinziruk who was a 154 pound fighter was considered to be a great fight against elite comp not like the 2 cherry picking frauds.

Do you know the kind of shit Mayweather and Pac would get for fighting say a Rafal Jackiewicz
or fighting Tim Bradley who's a career 140 pound fighter?

I rest my case.

[marbleheadmaui]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.

[killersheep]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.

See my post above yours.

[marbleheadmaui]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.

See my post above yours.

[Channeling Emily Latella] Oh, that's very different...never mind

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.

I didnt criticise the fight read my post again. I said Casamayor was as shot as Mosley. He looked dreadful against Corrales, who himself was finished and he got beat by Cruz almost as one sidedly as Floyd beat Shane. He beat Katsidis but had to go through hell to do it and he's looked bad in every fight other than against Marquez since.

He's probably more shot then Shane, its just Shane fought the two best fighters in the world.

[marbleheadmaui]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.

I didnt criticise the fight read my post again. I said Casamayor was as shot as Mosley. He looked dreadful against Corrales, who himself was finished and he got beat by Cruz almost as one sidedly as Floyd beat Shane. He beat Katsidis but had to go through hell to do it and he's looked bad in every fight other than against Marquez since.

He's probably more shot then Shane, its just Shane fought the two best fighters in the world.

Fair enough!

[CutMeMick]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Which why I thought RJJ vs. Calzaghe was shit.
I never gave Cal any credit for that.
A worthless fight.

As for JMM-Casa well how wrong can you be.
Casa was the lineal champ so the fight was meaningful.
Not to mention Casa at least showed up to fight.
SSM showed up more because of contract and not so much to fight.