10 Most Accomplished of My Lifetime

[IamInuit]

This is going to be nearly impossible. But I guess that's the fun. Here are the rules. Anyone who had a significant chunk of there career from 1970 on counts (1970 was when I remember watching my first fight, Ali-Quarry). Here is the criteria I'm basing things on
1. Great fighters defeated (preference for them being in their prime and at their best weight)
2. Dominance in multiple divisions, taking on all comers
2. Dominance in a division, taking on all comers
4. THE MAN championships
5. Other extraordinary accomplishments
6. Extraordinary displays of fighting spirit (hey, it's my damned list!)
---------------------------------------------

1. Muhammad Ali-Defeated the greatest heavyweight roster in history. Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Patterson, Norton, Folley, Bonavena, Lyle and Shavers. First three time lineal heavyweight champion. 19 defenses. The first big, highly mobile heavyweight.


Lol I went to the questions immediately and had to come back and edit the entire thing when I saw the 70’s law

I’ll go with Chava. Lopez x 2, Castillo, La Porte, Gomez and Nelson all in about a year and a half. Shame about slamming into the rolling chicken coup. Oh what could have been. Right in there with Willie and Hank as the best feather all time.


2. Roberto Duran-Defeated Ernest Marcel, Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Carlos Palomino, Ray Leonard, Pipino Cuevas and then as an old man Davey Moore and Iran Barkley. 12 defenses of lightweight crown. Defeated atop three all-time 147 in his prime to become undisputed king there too and fought a top five all-time middle to a standstill. Arguably had two HOF careers, before and after No Mas.

Agreed.


3. Ray Leonard-Defeated Tommy Hearns, Wilfredo Benitez, Roberto Duran and Marvin Hagler. That's as good a top four as maybe anyone in history. His durability and overall activity levels keep him from being higher. A true great.

Second best welter ever although I do not have the physical evidence to prove he’s not the first.



4. Pernell Whittaker-THE MAN at both 135 and 147 with a total of 18 defenses. Schooled Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez. One of history's great defenders.

Shane went 34 and 0 with 32 ko’s and then jumped two divisions to beat the man at 147.

5. Ruben Olivares-THE MAN at 118 and 126. He ruled the greatest bantamweight era in history defeating Castillo, Medel, Burruni, Rose, Pimintel and then went to 126 and knocked off Chacon (twice). The finest bodypuncher I've ever seen.


Other extraordinary accomplishments

How about Benitez at age 15 going 25 and 0 against grown men in just over a year and winning a title at 17.


6. Julio Cesar Chavez-THE MAN at 135 and 140, defeated Meldrick Taylor, Edwin Rosario, Hector Camacho, Juan LaPorte and Ruben Castillo. 16 defenses.

He is not the man at 135. In the time frame you have described Duran is the man at 135. One could almost make the case for Arguello time frame wise

7. Carlos Monzon-THE MAN at 160 for seven years and 13 defenses. Beat HOFers Benvenuti (twice), Griffith (twice) and Napoles as well as Rodrigo Valdez. Closed his career with a 13 year, 70+ fight unbeaten run.

The most coddled overrated middleweight champion ever.


8. George Foreman-Really hard to rank. He destroyed Joe Frazier twice and Kenny Norton and had a slugfest with Ron Lyle. He's here for a simple reason. He did the impossible. He won the heavyweight crown 21 years apart.

Good one

9. Marvin Hagler-Dominated 160 like perhaps no one in history. Won every one of twelve defenses by KO except Duran. Defeated Briscoe, Watts, Antuofuermo, Duran, Hearns and Mugabi.

Don’t limit this conversation to 1970 forward and then use the phrase no one in history. Are you going to tell me that Greb and Burley would not compete with Hagler?


10. Manny Pacquiao-First man ever to win four lineal championships. One of the few in history to excel across five of the original divisions. Not higher because many of his biggest wins were against men no longer at their best weight or in their primes. Could well move higher.

Forget about George Carpentier. Forget about Armstrong. Nobody has touched this and if theirs any moron out their who believes that you gain speed and power to this extent as one moves up in weight, I will simply say consult the last hundred years

Responded inside your quote and was told my response was to short. Purpose of this side note.

Thanks as always for your thought, Coupla things.

1. As much as I love Sanchez, and i do, he just didn't live long enought o do enough to be "most accomplished."

Thats precisely why I chose him.What he did in the short time he was with us was incredible but each to their own


2. Shane was never the man at 135. He beat what? TWO ranked guys? Holiday and Molina? Doesn't one have to consider his wins of Oscar, um, well, um tainted?

His 154 win could be tainted but he was unbeatable at 135 and railroaded the division. I dont rank things all the time based off of names. A list of names can be a deceiver in this sport. I mean I rank Hop in my top 5 middles all time and the only real name he has at that weight in a blown up welter in Tito.
3. Benitez is a great call!
4. How was Monzon coddled? He fought on the road all the time and he defended the crown against almost only top five ranked guys.

Monzon never left his own country except to Italy once or twice. Benny Briscoe almost had him out of their. Who are all these top 5 guys he fought? Griffith and Napoles were worn out catchers mitts as was Valdez.

5. Duran was long gone from 135 by the time Chavez moved in and became the man.

You said 70's on so its Duran by far.

6. I said Hagler DOMINATED the division like no one in history. Got any other 160 champs who KO'd 12 of 13 challengers?

Ko% No but their are others who dominated that division "in history" Greb fought Haglers career total in just over a year


7. Jimmy McLarnin began at 112 and won the undisputed 147 crown by a KO1!

So? He beat Corbett after he had had about 130 fights.I'll stick to my guns. Nobody in history has even came close to doing what Manny has done or in the matter he has done it. Nobody period.

I'm glad you limited the question from the 70's on or I would have been thinking about the question for months lol.

[marbleheadmaui]

This is going to be nearly impossible. But I guess that's the fun. Here are the rules. Anyone who had a significant chunk of there career from 1970 on counts (1970 was when I remember watching my first fight, Ali-Quarry). Here is the criteria I'm basing things on
1. Great fighters defeated (preference for them being in their prime and at their best weight)
2. Dominance in multiple divisions, taking on all comers
2. Dominance in a division, taking on all comers
4. THE MAN championships
5. Other extraordinary accomplishments
6. Extraordinary displays of fighting spirit (hey, it's my damned list!)
---------------------------------------------

1. Muhammad Ali-Defeated the greatest heavyweight roster in history. Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Patterson, Norton, Folley, Bonavena, Lyle and Shavers. First three time lineal heavyweight champion. 19 defenses. The first big, highly mobile heavyweight.


Lol I went to the questions immediately and had to come back and edit the entire thing when I saw the 70’s law

I’ll go with Chava. Lopez x 2, Castillo, La Porte, Gomez and Nelson all in about a year and a half. Shame about slamming into the rolling chicken coup. Oh what could have been. Right in there with Willie and Hank as the best feather all time.


2. Roberto Duran-Defeated Ernest Marcel, Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Carlos Palomino, Ray Leonard, Pipino Cuevas and then as an old man Davey Moore and Iran Barkley. 12 defenses of lightweight crown. Defeated atop three all-time 147 in his prime to become undisputed king there too and fought a top five all-time middle to a standstill. Arguably had two HOF careers, before and after No Mas.

Agreed.


3. Ray Leonard-Defeated Tommy Hearns, Wilfredo Benitez, Roberto Duran and Marvin Hagler. That's as good a top four as maybe anyone in history. His durability and overall activity levels keep him from being higher. A true great.

Second best welter ever although I do not have the physical evidence to prove he’s not the first.



4. Pernell Whittaker-THE MAN at both 135 and 147 with a total of 18 defenses. Schooled Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez. One of history's great defenders.

Shane went 34 and 0 with 32 ko’s and then jumped two divisions to beat the man at 147.

5. Ruben Olivares-THE MAN at 118 and 126. He ruled the greatest bantamweight era in history defeating Castillo, Medel, Burruni, Rose, Pimintel and then went to 126 and knocked off Chacon (twice). The finest bodypuncher I've ever seen.


Other extraordinary accomplishments

How about Benitez at age 15 going 25 and 0 against grown men in just over a year and winning a title at 17.


6. Julio Cesar Chavez-THE MAN at 135 and 140, defeated Meldrick Taylor, Edwin Rosario, Hector Camacho, Juan LaPorte and Ruben Castillo. 16 defenses.

He is not the man at 135. In the time frame you have described Duran is the man at 135. One could almost make the case for Arguello time frame wise

7. Carlos Monzon-THE MAN at 160 for seven years and 13 defenses. Beat HOFers Benvenuti (twice), Griffith (twice) and Napoles as well as Rodrigo Valdez. Closed his career with a 13 year, 70+ fight unbeaten run.

The most coddled overrated middleweight champion ever.


8. George Foreman-Really hard to rank. He destroyed Joe Frazier twice and Kenny Norton and had a slugfest with Ron Lyle. He's here for a simple reason. He did the impossible. He won the heavyweight crown 21 years apart.

Good one

9. Marvin Hagler-Dominated 160 like perhaps no one in history. Won every one of twelve defenses by KO except Duran. Defeated Briscoe, Watts, Antuofuermo, Duran, Hearns and Mugabi.

Don’t limit this conversation to 1970 forward and then use the phrase no one in history. Are you going to tell me that Greb and Burley would not compete with Hagler?


10. Manny Pacquiao-First man ever to win four lineal championships. One of the few in history to excel across five of the original divisions. Not higher because many of his biggest wins were against men no longer at their best weight or in their primes. Could well move higher.

Forget about George Carpentier. Forget about Armstrong. Nobody has touched this and if theirs any moron out their who believes that you gain speed and power to this extent as one moves up in weight, I will simply say consult the last hundred years

Responded inside your quote and was told my response was to short. Purpose of this side note.

Thanks as always for your thought, Coupla things.

1. As much as I love Sanchez, and i do, he just didn't live long enought o do enough to be "most accomplished."

Thats precisely why I chose him.What he did in the short time he was with us was incredible but each to their own


2. Shane was never the man at 135. He beat what? TWO ranked guys? Holiday and Molina? Doesn't one have to consider his wins of Oscar, um, well, um tainted?

His 154 win could be tainted but he was unbeatable at 135 and railroaded the division. I dont rank things all the time based off of names. A list of names can be a deceiver in this sport. I mean I rank Hop in my top 5 middles all time and the only real name he has at that weight in a blown up welter in Tito.
3. Benitez is a great call!
4. How was Monzon coddled? He fought on the road all the time and he defended the crown against almost only top five ranked guys.

Monzon never left his own country except to Italy once or twice. Benny Briscoe almost had him out of their. Who are all these top 5 guys he fought? Griffith and Napoles were worn out catchers mitts as was Valdez.

5. Duran was long gone from 135 by the time Chavez moved in and became the man.

You said 70's on so its Duran by far.

6. I said Hagler DOMINATED the division like no one in history. Got any other 160 champs who KO'd 12 of 13 challengers?

Ko% No but their are others who dominated that division "in history" Greb fought Haglers career total in just over a year


7. Jimmy McLarnin began at 112 and won the undisputed 147 crown by a KO1!

So? He beat Corbett after he had had about 130 fights.I'll stick to my guns. Nobody in history has even came close to doing what Manny has done or in the matter he has done it. Nobody period.

I'm glad you limited the question from the 70's on or I would have been thinking about the question for months lol.

Whom did Monzon NOT fight who he should have? He fought Valdez in Monaco, Tonna in Paris, Licata in NYC, Napoles in Paris, Bouttier in Paris, Griffith in Monaco, Boggs in Denmark and Benvenuti in Italy. Coddled? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

You're simply wrong on McLarnin. He did almost EXACTLY what Manny has done. So Corbett had 130 fights? He was the reigning champion! After that fight he also went on to beat guys like Gus Lesnevich, Beep van Klavern and Fred Apistoli!

You misunderstand what I mean by THE MAN. I mean one was the legit champion of a division. Not the best of a series of legit champions. For example, right now JMM is THE MAN at 135.

I was talking Hagler's title run. Greb only had 3-4 defenses of the 160 crown. Nobody has ever done what Hagler did as champ at 160.

How could Shane have "railroaded" 135 when he only beat 3-4 ranked guys?

[IamInuit]

Whom did Monzon NOT fight who he should have? He fought Valdez in Monaco, Tonna in Paris, Licata in NYC, Napoles in Paris, Bouttier in Paris, Griffith in Monaco, Boggs in Denmark and Benvenuti in Italy. Coddled? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I'm not going to play a game of semantics and what you think I think the word coddled means is irrelevant. He has a few names on his ledger that were at the time the present day Roty Jones equivalent by the time he fought them. Great fighters yes but not when he fought them.

You're simply wrong on McLarnin. He did almost EXACTLY what Manny has done. So Corbett had 130 fights? He was the reigning champion! After that fight he also went on to beat guys like Gus Lesnevich, Beep van Klavern and Fred Apistoli!

No I'm not you are wrong about Manny and I'll repeat myself. Nobody since 1681 has ever done anything near what Manny is presently doing. He's not just moving up and beating the cream of the crop he's killing them.

You misunderstand what I mean by THE MAN. I mean one was the legit champion of a division. Not the best of a series of legit champions. For example, right now JMM is THE MAN at 135.

Must have as I was thinking shit Duran defended his 135 title 12 times and went 71-1 with close to 60 ko's over a 13 year period.

I was talking Hagler's title run. Greb only had 3-4 defenses of the 160 crown. Nobody has ever done what Hagler did as champ at 160.

Hopkins defended the title 20 times. Greb beat 7 light heavyweight champions. Come on. He won the title after losing to Tunney. Did Hagler ever even consider 175. Greb was the champion before he ever got the "belt". Greb won the belt from Wilson, defended against Downey and then fought Tunney at 175 a week later. He then beat Loughran 2 weeks later. Over 300 fights and a handful of loses and only stopped twice. The most dominant middleweight in the history of the sport.

How could Shane have "railroaded" 135 when he only beat 3-4 ranked guys?

Ranked guys? Pay your fee and get you're very own ranking. He went 34 and 0 as a lightweight with 32 knockouts. I meant steamroll not railroad.

In the end its all subjective and interpretive. Their are no right or wrong answers.

[marbleheadmaui]

Whom did Monzon NOT fight who he should have? He fought Valdez in Monaco, Tonna in Paris, Licata in NYC, Napoles in Paris, Bouttier in Paris, Griffith in Monaco, Boggs in Denmark and Benvenuti in Italy. Coddled? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I'm not going to play a game of semantics and what you think I think the word coddled means is irrelevant. He has a few names on his ledger that were at the time the present day Roty Jones equivalent by the time he fought them. Great fighters yes but not when he fought them.

You're simply wrong on McLarnin. He did almost EXACTLY what Manny has done. So Corbett had 130 fights? He was the reigning champion! After that fight he also went on to beat guys like Gus Lesnevich, Beep van Klavern and Fred Apistoli!

No I'm not you are wrong about Manny and I'll repeat myself. Nobody since 1681 has ever done anything near what Manny is presently doing. He's not just moving up and beating the cream of the crop he's killing them.

You misunderstand what I mean by THE MAN. I mean one was the legit champion of a division. Not the best of a series of legit champions. For example, right now JMM is THE MAN at 135.

Must have as I was thinking shit Duran defended his 135 title 12 times and went 71-1 with close to 60 ko's over a 13 year period.

I was talking Hagler's title run. Greb only had 3-4 defenses of the 160 crown. Nobody has ever done what Hagler did as champ at 160.

Hopkins defended the title 20 times. Greb beat 7 light heavyweight champions. Come on. He won the title after losing to Tunney. Did Hagler ever even consider 175. Greb was the champion before he ever got the "belt". Greb won the belt from Wilson, defended against Downey and then fought Tunney at 175 a week later. He then beat Loughran 2 weeks later. Over 300 fights and a handful of loses and only stopped twice. The most dominant middleweight in the history of the sport.

How could Shane have "railroaded" 135 when he only beat 3-4 ranked guys?

Ranked guys? Pay your fee and get you're very own ranking. He went 34 and 0 as a lightweight with 32 knockouts. I meant steamroll not railroad.

In the end its all subjective and interpretive. Their are no right or wrong answers.

Whow should Monzon have fought that he didn't and where to avoid the title "coddled."

I'm right and you're wrong about Manny. Starting at 112 and KO1 to win the 147 crown over a HOFer is objectively something Manny has never done.

By ranked guys I mean Ring Magazine ranked, not the alphabets who have an agenda.

No shit Sherlock this is all subjective...otherwise we'd have nothing to talk about