"To Hit and Not Be Hit Boxers" - Steve Kim

[Dropanuke]

Statisticly Floyd jr and Roy jr share a record of going an entire round without being hit once according to wikipedia
Now that takes skill which is the same as natural ability

[Boxer4life]

The thing is thou, i do fins ward a little boring, i don't like how he fights because he is not impressive, guys like floyd on the otter hand, fight elusive, but it looks amazing, and you can see his mind at work with every move he makes, not that i enjoy

[Dropanuke]

The thing is thou, i do fins ward a little boring, i don't like how he fights because he is not impressive, guys like floyd on the otter hand, fight elusive, but it looks amazing, and you can see his mind at work with every move he makes, not that i enjoy

see with me i luv watching floyd jr becos he knows hes the best at what he does, i honestly dont blame him for not fighting pac man, he doesnt need pac man although i reckon floyd would spread him accross the ring like butter!! pac man is good but all i see is a one trick pony, i mean could people honestly think floyd is silly enough to fall for the way manny fights

[Spicoli]

They can't all be Manny. Wait he got booed too. Maybe we're just spoiled. Their is a fine line with guys who gain total domination but ride the lead opposed to those who accelerate it.

[marbleheadmaui]

I think more people line up to see car wrecks than to see good driving.

I couldn't care less what most people do.

Ward is efficient and effective as hell. People who believe themselves to be dedicated boxing fans and yet cannot appreciate it need to do a better job of understanding boxing and what they are seeing.

The worship of men like Arturo Gatti sets the sport back in my view.

[Rantcatrat]

I think more people line up to see car wrecks than to see good driving.

I couldn't care less what most people do.

Ward is efficient and effective as hell. People who believe themselves to be dedicated boxing fans and yet cannot appreciate it need to do a better job of understanding boxing and what they are seeing.

The worship of men like Arturo Gatti sets the sport back in my view.

Steve Kim's point as I understand it was that those same people that appreciate Andre Ward's defensive style don't buy tickets and don't financially support the sport. As much as you may not want to admit it, the Saul Alvarez and Manny Pacquiao's are great for boxing because they put people in seats and keep the sport at least somewhat relevant.

Also, I'm sure defensive doesn't have to mean boring. Marble - can you name defensive fighters of yesteryear that were able to hype the crowd?

And Fenster made a good point, there are plenty of defensive fighters that have never been in a memorable fight. Perhaps, great fighters too.

[generalbulldog]

What Kim said is true. Hell even Dibella said boxing nerds don't buy fights or help pay the bills, it's the casual fans more so than the hardcores that do. They are the ones attending fights and buying the PPVs.

[marbleheadmaui]

I think more people line up to see car wrecks than to see good driving.

I couldn't care less what most people do.

Ward is efficient and effective as hell. People who believe themselves to be dedicated boxing fans and yet cannot appreciate it need to do a better job of understanding boxing and what they are seeing.

The worship of men like Arturo Gatti sets the sport back in my view.

Steve Kim's point as I understand it was that those same people that appreciate Andre Ward's defensive style don't buy tickets and don't financially support the sport. As much as you may not want to admit it, the Saul Alvarez and Manny Pacquiao's are great for boxing because they put people in seats and keep the sport at least somewhat relevant.
Also, I'm sure defensive doesn't have to mean boring. Marble - can you name defensive fighters of yesteryear that were able to hype the crowd?

And Fenster made a good point, there are plenty of defensive fighters that have never been in a memorable fight. Perhaps, great fighters too.

I admit the bold. Grudgingly and with teeth grinding. Dumbing down the sport to the lowest common denominator is a weak second choice to educating the fans to what they are seeing [grumble, grumble]

Sweet Pea sure shut up the Alamodome against Chavez! Pep had the Garden rocking against Saddler in their second fight. Benny Leonard drew 70,000 several times. Niclino Locche would have people calling his name and cheering when he made the other guy miss. It was like a bullfight. Muhammad Ali's defining characterstics were his moving and not getting hit. He was the biggest name in history.

I also think Fenster is just wrong about great defensive fighters never being in a memorable fight. I'd LOVE to see that list!

[captainanddew]

I think more people line up to see car wrecks than to see good driving.

I couldn't care less what most people do.

Ward is efficient and effective as hell. People who believe themselves to be dedicated boxing fans and yet cannot appreciate it need to do a better job of understanding boxing and what they are seeing.

The worship of men like Arturo Gatti sets the sport back in my view.

Fight fans love to hate on Ward. He doesn't knock people out, he fights ugly, blah blah blah. He is a joy to watch because he is one smart motherfucker. He changes styles for fights and often within fights. If plan A isn't working he has plan B and C.
His fight against Allan Green was a thing of beauty? How so? He just mauled the man. He mauled him with some very smart moves. There was times that he would get Green to the ropes. Ward would then position his body so that his left side pinned Green's arms against his body (without holding) and Ward could still get his right hand off without Green being able to throw either hand. Good ring IQ.

Against Kessler he stayed just out of distance. If Kessler took a step forward, he'd counter. If not he'd wait until Kessler had been moving laterally, then step in quickly, and get off. And out. Kessler doesn't move badly but after moving he has to reset.

[marbleheadmaui]

I think more people line up to see car wrecks than to see good driving.

I couldn't care less what most people do.

Ward is efficient and effective as hell. People who believe themselves to be dedicated boxing fans and yet cannot appreciate it need to do a better job of understanding boxing and what they are seeing.

The worship of men like Arturo Gatti sets the sport back in my view.

Fight fans love to hate on Ward. He doesn't knock people out, he fights ugly, blah blah blah. He is a joy to watch because he is one smart motherfucker. He changes styles for fights and often within fights. If plan A isn't working he has plan B and C.
His fight against Allan Green was a thing of beauty? How so? He just mauled the man. He mauled him with some very smart moves. There was times that he would get Green to the ropes. Ward would then position his body so that his left side pinned Green's arms against his body (without holding) and Ward could still get his right hand off without Green being able to throw either hand. Good ring IQ.

Against Kessler he stayed just out of distance. If Kessler took a step forward, he'd counter. If not he'd wait until Kessler had been moving laterally, then step in quickly, and get off. And out. Kessler doesn't move badly but after moving he has to reset.

I agree! I suspect the reason folks find Ward boring is he offers little reason to think something sudden and shocking is possible. He dominates tactically and so doesn't seem vulnerable and he lacks the power to stop a fight suddenly. So I suspect what people do is watch 5-6 rounds and think, there is close to zero chance the next 6-7 are different. I get that. He's not a wolf or a tiger, he's a python who slowly wraps his guy up and increases the squeeze until the end. Me? I admire his tactical skill.

[Boxer4life]

The thing is thou, i do fins ward a little boring, i don't like how he fights because he is not impressive, guys like floyd on the otter hand, fight elusive, but it looks amazing, and you can see his mind at work with every move he makes, not that i enjoy

see with me i luv watching floyd jr becos he knows hes the best at what he does, i honestly dont blame him for not fighting pac man, he doesnt need pac man although i reckon floyd would spread him accross the ring like butter!! pac man is good but all i see is a one trick pony, i mean could people honestly think floyd is silly enough to fall for the way manny fights

i think everyone including pac fans know floyd will win, but he is the biggest threat by far compared to anyone, which is why we wanna see it, i personally love floyd and manny, and i think it would be a hellva fight