Bernard is historically greater than Manny or Floyd

[Gandalf]

Manny is the tougher call IMO (and full disclosure I'm a big fan of Manny and Bernard, Floyd not so much).

But I'm leaning towards Hopkins over both. Definitely over Floyd. The weight jump is the big advantage for Manny.

I do think Bernard has passed Roy.

Yeah Floyds career has really gone out like a wet match lately, unless he fights Manny his ending will leave a sour taste I think.

Hopkins definitely has done something amazing for an old guy, but in absolute sense I'm not sure beating Pascal by razor thin decision is equal to just literally battering and dominating guys like Cotto, Margarito and Mosley that Manny has done lately.

B Hop is winning some and losing some against very good opposition, Manny is beating the snot out of his, and way above his natural fighting weight. That to me is more impressive as no other fighter in history has done that.

The important thing to remember is that Hopkins is 46. I bet Manny isn't doing what Hopkins is doing at 46. And I hate this talk of Manny fighting outside of his weight class. The guy weighs in above 140, the guy IS a WW. Forget all this "if he boiled down he could make 135 easy" talk, we simply don't know that, but what we do know is that Manny weighs in at WW and fights other WW's.

As for the greatness thing, they are all pretty great. I don't know which is greater, but Floyd's recent lack of anything does leave a sour taste.

[mafiajoey]

Pac and Floyd need to get there crap figured out. Compromise on these issues or whatever.

Pac will always have the "drug test" lingering over him shall he keep avoiding it. Pac fans are the only ones who are blind to this.

Floyd will always have the "ducking" lingering over him and most don't care either way. Floyd can't be seriously spoke about in any forum or discussion because Pactards will be the first to jump on him. It's what they specialize in. Anything to get the heat off the test Pac won't take.

Pac and Floyd are behind BHop It takes more then a resume of weight drained has beens. And it takes more then an undefeated record. See there Pactards I see it from both view.



BHop as of now is higher I believe. He never dodged anyone. He never cherry picked like Roy.

[OumaFan]

I think there's a distinction between "greater" and "better", in the historical sense. I would argue that both Bernard and Manny are "greater" than Floyd legacy wise but I think Floyd is the most talented fighter of my lifetime. A bit of a waste of talent to this point though.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Pac and Floyd need to get there crap figured out. Compromise on these issues or whatever.

Pac will always have the "drug test" lingering over him shall he keep avoiding it. Pac fans are the only ones who are blind to this.

Floyd will always have the "ducking" lingering over him and most don't care either way. Floyd can't be seriously spoke about in any forum or discussion because Pactards will be the first to jump on him. It's what they specialize in. Anything to get the heat off the test Pac won't take.

Pac and Floyd are behind BHop It takes more then a resume of weight drained has beens. And it takes more then an undefeated record. See there Pactards I see it from both view.



BHop as of now is higher I believe. He never dodged anyone. He never cherry picked like Roy.

Must be why he fought those blown up WWs....

[generalbulldog]

Pac and Floyd need to get there crap figured out. Compromise on these issues or whatever.

Pac will always have the "drug test" lingering over him shall he keep avoiding it. Pac fans are the only ones who are blind to this.

Floyd will always have the "ducking" lingering over him and most don't care either way. Floyd can't be seriously spoke about in any forum or discussion because Pactards will be the first to jump on him. It's what they specialize in. Anything to get the heat off the test Pac won't take.

Pac and Floyd are behind BHop It takes more then a resume of weight drained has beens. And it takes more then an undefeated record. See there Pactards I see it from both view.



BHop as of now is higher I believe. He never dodged anyone. He never cherry picked like Roy.

Must be why he fought those blown up WWs....

Ouch.

[marbleheadmaui]

Right now? I have BHOP over Floyd and behind Manny.

But things aren't over,

[marbleheadmaui]

Pac and Floyd need to get there crap figured out. Compromise on these issues or whatever.

Pac will always have the "drug test" lingering over him shall he keep avoiding it. Pac fans are the only ones who are blind to this.

Floyd will always have the "ducking" lingering over him and most don't care either way. Floyd can't be seriously spoke about in any forum or discussion because Pactards will be the first to jump on him. It's what they specialize in. Anything to get the heat off the test Pac won't take.

Pac and Floyd are behind BHop It takes more then a resume of weight drained has beens. And it takes more then an undefeated record. See there Pactards I see it from both view.



BHop as of now is higher I believe. He never dodged anyone. He never cherry picked like Roy.

Must be why he fought those blown up WWs....

Yeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?

[JonesJrMayweather]

Pac and Floyd need to get there crap figured out. Compromise on these issues or whatever.

Pac will always have the "drug test" lingering over him shall he keep avoiding it. Pac fans are the only ones who are blind to this.

Floyd will always have the "ducking" lingering over him and most don't care either way. Floyd can't be seriously spoke about in any forum or discussion because Pactards will be the first to jump on him. It's what they specialize in. Anything to get the heat off the test Pac won't take.

Pac and Floyd are behind BHop It takes more then a resume of weight drained has beens. And it takes more then an undefeated record. See there Pactards I see it from both view.



BHop as of now is higher I believe. He never dodged anyone. He never cherry picked like Roy.

Must be why he fought those blown up WWs....

Yeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?

How about moving up, like most in history tend to do.

[marbleheadmaui]

Pac and Floyd need to get there crap figured out. Compromise on these issues or whatever.

Pac will always have the "drug test" lingering over him shall he keep avoiding it. Pac fans are the only ones who are blind to this.

Floyd will always have the "ducking" lingering over him and most don't care either way. Floyd can't be seriously spoke about in any forum or discussion because Pactards will be the first to jump on him. It's what they specialize in. Anything to get the heat off the test Pac won't take.

Pac and Floyd are behind BHop It takes more then a resume of weight drained has beens. And it takes more then an undefeated record. See there Pactards I see it from both view.



BHop as of now is higher I believe. He never dodged anyone. He never cherry picked like Roy.

Must be why he fought those blown up WWs....

Yeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?

How about moving up, like most in history tend to do.

Because that's NOT what most in history have done. These sorts of violent weight movements are a recent phenomenon and a function of two things. 17 divisions instead of eight and as thin a talent pool as the sport has seen for 50 years.

As far as moving up goes? You may have heard about a fight in Montreal tonight?

[JonesJrMayweather]

Pac and Floyd need to get there crap figured out. Compromise on these issues or whatever.

Pac will always have the "drug test" lingering over him shall he keep avoiding it. Pac fans are the only ones who are blind to this.

Floyd will always have the "ducking" lingering over him and most don't care either way. Floyd can't be seriously spoke about in any forum or discussion because Pactards will be the first to jump on him. It's what they specialize in. Anything to get the heat off the test Pac won't take.

Pac and Floyd are behind BHop It takes more then a resume of weight drained has beens. And it takes more then an undefeated record. See there Pactards I see it from both view.



BHop as of now is higher I believe. He never dodged anyone. He never cherry picked like Roy.

Must be why he fought those blown up WWs....

Yeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?

How about moving up, like most in history tend to do.

Because that's NOT what most in history have done. These sorts of violent weight movements are a recent phenomenon and a function of two things. 17 divisions instead of eight and as thin a talent pool as the sport has seen for 50 years.

As far as moving up goes? You may have heard about a fight in Montreal tonight?

You asked about 2001.. And in Bhop's era moving up in weight was and is fairly common. Surely he'd know, seeing as how his best wins came against fighters smaller than him. And if we really want to dissect this thing, his win against Tarver, Tarver was clearly weight drained from dropping the weight from filming that Rocky movie. Which only leaves a win over Pascal. Whoopty dooo..

[CFH]

Honestly, I think his legacy pales in comparison to Pacquiao's. Hopkins feats are impressive because of his age, but I don't think they come close to what Pacquiao has done.

Floyd is more of a mystery. He has the skills to literally be the greatest boxer of all time, but his resume (relatively speaking) is mediocre for a fighter of his level.

[marbleheadmaui]

Honestly, I think his legacy pales in comparison to Pacquiao's. Hopkins feats are impressive because of his age, but I don't think they come close to what Pacquiao has done.

Floyd is more of a mystery. He has the skills to literally be the greatest boxer of all time, but his resume (relatively speaking) is mediocre for a fighter of his level.

I don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.

He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo

[CFH]

Honestly, I think his legacy pales in comparison to Pacquiao's. Hopkins feats are impressive because of his age, but I don't think they come close to what Pacquiao has done.

Floyd is more of a mystery. He has the skills to literally be the greatest boxer of all time, but his resume (relatively speaking) is mediocre for a fighter of his level.

I don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.

He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo

Yeah, mystery is probably the wrong word. An enigma perhaps? I just honestly think that he has the skills to literally be remembered as the best fighter ever (or at least be in the discussion), but while his early resume is quite strong he has absolutely pissed away his legacy in the past half-decade. Skill-wise, he's miles ahead of Hopkins, but he doesn't have the same desire that the old man does and I'd have him well behind at this point.

I still don't think Hopkins comes anywhere close to Pacquiao though.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Personally, I think Hopkins should travel to Russia to fight Jean Paul Gaultier.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Honestly, I think his legacy pales in comparison to Pacquiao's. Hopkins feats are impressive because of his age, but I don't think they come close to what Pacquiao has done.

Floyd is more of a mystery. He has the skills to literally be the greatest boxer of all time, but his resume (relatively speaking) is mediocre for a fighter of his level.

I don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.

He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo

The funny thing is, I remember about 6 or 7 years ago, there was an interview where Lil' Floyd was discrediting what Bernard had achieved @ 160 saying something like ''Anyone can dominate just one division''.

I remember thinking to myself, 'Why would a great fighter who is completely out of competition with another great fighter, make the effort to try and talk down a man's legacy like that?'

Anyway it's funny now though, that Bernard at 46, is still mastering his sport while Floyd is talking his own legacy down the toilet.