Bernard is historically greater than Manny or Floyd

[ICB]

Well in my own personal opinion, i think B-Hop should be rated higher. Because i don't think he's legitmately lost a fight since 1993, where as i think Manny Pacquiao lost twice to JMM.

[Spicoli]

Well in my own personal opinion, i think B-Hop should be rated higher. Because i don't think he's legitmately lost a fight since 1993, where as i think Manny Pacquiao lost twice to JMM.

I dunno Ice. Love Hopkins but Taylor ? I couldn't stand Hopkins in that 1st fight, late. He dogged it and I believe let a tko slip away. Arrogant pomp. Had him over Calzaghe slight but hey, Joe earned that one.

Devils advocate souly here ha.

[JazMerkin]

Ok, I disagree. Looking at lineal titles, Manny has 4, Floyd has 3, Bernard has 2. That's not the be all and end all, but I think the impressiveness of Bernard doing it at this age is colouring things a bit. Regardless of age are we really going to say that the opposition that he's beaten is better than that of Floyd or Manny? I don't believe it is. If you're going to discredit some of their wins for whatever reason, you can use the same reasoning to discredit B-Hop's.

I'll be clear, I rate Hopkins alongside them, but I also think it's very difficult to have any perspective on a fighter's career while they still fight. I believe Mayweather's career will look much better on reflection (see SRL's career), although if he doesn't fight Pacquiao than it will suffer possibly irreversibly. If he does & wins then he is sorted. The biggest risk to Pacquiao's legacy comes in his next fight. Lose to JMM & suddenly all the accusations about cherry-picking opponents will seem to be valid regardless of whether that is true. Hopkins age allows him the luxury of excusing a defeat such as if he loses to any of Dawson, Bute or Ward.

But the focus on Hopkins age ignores the feats that the other two have achieved. Pacquiao won a lineal world title while still a teenager. Mayweather won a lineal title just short of two years of turning professional. Those aren't common achievements.

Anyway, just my take on things.

[marbleheadmaui]

Well in my own personal opinion, i think B-Hop should be rated higher. Because i don't think he's legitmately lost a fight since 1993, where as i think Manny Pacquiao lost twice to JMM.

Respectfully (*and I mean that), I don't get that kind of thinking. Once one starts down that road? Doesn't one have to look at every possible fight of every , at least major, fighter?

Secondly, are you really comfortable that scoring a close fight from TV is accurate? I'm sure as hell not. The views change, the angles are different from a real judges and one is poisoned by commentary.

My own view is a lot of the time (and the two Manny-JMM fights fit) fights are too close to call, or effectively draws, and we've agreed to have this thing called judges decide them.

[ICB]

Well in my own personal opinion, i think B-Hop should be rated higher. Because i don't think he's legitmately lost a fight since 1993, where as i think Manny Pacquiao lost twice to JMM.

Respectfully (*and I mean that), I don't get that kind of thinking. Once one starts down that road? Doesn't one have to look at every possible fight of every , at least major, fighter?

Secondly, are you really comfortable that scoring a close fight from TV is accurate? I'm sure as hell not. The views change, the angles are different from a real judges and one is poisoned by commentary.

My own view is a lot of the time (and the two Manny-JMM fights fit) fights are too close to call, or effectively draws, and we've agreed to have this thing called judges decide them.

That's just my own personal opinion, im not saying it goes for everyone else. But i think the 1st Taylor vs Hopkins was a draw, the 2nd fight Hopkins won 7-5, and Hopkins winning by 1 point against Calzaghe.

The only time you can say B-Hop has lost a fight legitmately, was way back in 1993. And even that fight wasn't one sided, and he was green and up against a prime RJJ.

Just goes to show how good of all rounder B-Hop is.

[miron_lang]

Jean Pascal appears to have skyrocketed Bernard Hopkins legacy ...well at least to some of the members here.

Who can we compare from Floyd and Pac's resume in terms of accomplishment and stature?


Lehlo Ledwabba is clearly the best 122lbs fighter when Pacquiao fought him and maybe the same with Jose luis Castillo at 135 for Floyd. But Bhop was 46 and Pacquiao and Floyd were young. so that makes it less impressive? maybe ...but what is the summary of what Hopkins have done before becoming this legendary old fighter?


1. Future/Former Lightheavyweight champs Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver
2. Wins over Dela Hoya and Trinidad
3. Win over Kelly Pavlik @170
4. 3 Wins over Robert Allen, Keith Holmes , William Joppy



Records in comparison

Hopkins = 60 Fights 52 Wins 5 losses 2 Draws
Floyd = 41 Fights 41 Wins 0 losses 0 Draws
Pac = 58 Fights 53 Wins 3 losses 2 Draws


ATM

1. Pac 2. Bhop 3. Floyd

[JonesJrMayweather]

Jean Pascal appears to have skyrocketed Bernard Hopkins legacy ...well at least to some of the members here.

Who can we compare from Floyd and Pac's resume in terms of accomplishment and stature?


Lehlo Ledwabba is clearly the best 122lbs fighter when Pacquiao fought him and maybe the same with Jose luis Castillo at 135 for Floyd. But Bhop was 46 and Pacquiao and Floyd were young. so that makes it less impressive? maybe ...but what is the summary of what Hopkins have done before becoming this legendary old fighter?


1. Future/Former Lightheavyweight champs Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver
2. Wins over Dela Hoya and Trinidad
3. Win over Kelly Pavlik @170
4. 3 Wins over Robert Allen, Keith Holmes , William Joppy



Records in comparison

Hopkins = 60 Fights 52 Wins 5 losses 2 Draws
Floyd = 41 Fights 41 Wins 0 losses 0 Draws
Pac = 58 Fights 53 Wins 3 losses 2 Draws


ATM

1. Pac 2. Bhop 3. Floyd

If you're going to dissect him be sure to go all the way. Much like they do everyone else.

1- Glenn Johnson wasn't prime just like Bhop wasn't prime when lost to RJJ so he gets no credit for that

2- Tarver was weight drained from filming the Balboa movie, so he gets no credit for that.

3- Oscar, Tito, (you forgot Winky) we all blown up smaller fighters. Oscar showed he couldn't handle 160 when Sturm whooped his ass the fight before. Tito was just very good smaller man who was beaten by the bigger man, Winky looked like shit fighting at 170. As did Pavlik who lost his power going up. So no credit for those

4- William Joppy was destroyed by Tito Trinidad and was just mop up duty. Robert who?? and Keith who?

I mean go away the way with it, the same way posters on here do the same to Floyd and Manny.

He basically lost to legit men his size. RJJ, JC, and JT twice. RJJ had a broken wrist, JC was a white boy (sarcasm), and JT considering what's happen to him as off late that looks pretty bad on hopkins resume.

Disclaimer: I actually like BHOP, only picked against him once in his whole career. Against RJJ.

[generalbulldog]

Jean Pascal appears to have skyrocketed Bernard Hopkins legacy ...well at least to some of the members here.

Who can we compare from Floyd and Pac's resume in terms of accomplishment and stature?


Lehlo Ledwabba is clearly the best 122lbs fighter when Pacquiao fought him and maybe the same with Jose luis Castillo at 135 for Floyd. But Bhop was 46 and Pacquiao and Floyd were young. so that makes it less impressive? maybe ...but what is the summary of what Hopkins have done before becoming this legendary old fighter?


1. Future/Former Lightheavyweight champs Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver
2. Wins over Dela Hoya and Trinidad
3. Win over Kelly Pavlik @170
4. 3 Wins over Robert Allen, Keith Holmes , William Joppy



Records in comparison

Hopkins = 60 Fights 52 Wins 5 losses 2 Draws
Floyd = 41 Fights 41 Wins 0 losses 0 Draws
Pac = 58 Fights 53 Wins 3 losses 2 Draws


ATM

1. Pac 2. Bhop 3. Floyd

If you're going to dissect him be sure to go all the way. Much like they do everyone else.

1- Glenn Johnson wasn't prime just like Bhop wasn't prime when lost to RJJ so he gets no credit for that

2- Tarver was weight drained from filming the Balboa movie, so he gets no credit for that.

3- Oscar, Tito, (you forgot Winky) we all blown up smaller fighters. Oscar showed he couldn't handle 160 when Sturm whooped his ass the fight before. Tito was just very good smaller man who was beaten by the bigger man, Winky looked like shit fighting at 170. As did Pavlik who lost his power going up. So no credit for those

4- William Joppy was destroyed by Tito Trinidad and was just mop up duty. Robert who?? and Keith who?

I mean go away the way with it, the same way posters on here do the same to Floyd and Manny.

He basically lost to legit men his size. RJJ, JC, and JT twice. RJJ had a broken wrist, JC was a white boy (sarcasm), and JT considering what's happen to him as off late that looks pretty bad on hopkins resume.

Disclaimer: I actually like BHOP, only picked against him once in his whole career. Against RJJ.

Now this post is fair. People have shit on Pac and Mayweather's resume countless times and any other fighter. You know what they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Mr140]

I for the life of me still do not understand the huge difference in Manny and Folydes resumes i mean they are pretty close Manny holds lineal in only one more division then Floyde. Manyy has a few better wins then Floyde but he also lost more then him as well i think Floyde being undefeated equals them out.