Two Questions

[marbleheadmaui]

How do you define an "all-time great" and what is your criteria?

In your opinion how many have there been since John L. Sullivan?

I'll do my answers later. I want to see the gang's opinion.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

1. ALL Time great should have beaten many recognized and legitimate champions, Champions that have proven themselves by beating other legitimate champions.

Here's the hierarchy.

Lineal Champions weigh more
Ring Champions weigh more
Alphabet Champions weigh some
Vacant Alphabet weigh less


2. I am bad in history but i'll try

SRR, Ali, Foreman, Armstrong, Pep, Saddler, Greb, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler

Roy, Hopkins, Barrera, Morales, Floyd, Pacquiao, Ricardo Lopez, JCC, Wilfredo Gomez, Salvador Sanchez


and many more

Pretty darn good I think. I'd quibble and say alphabets don't count at all

[fan johnny]

The test of time!

[CutMeMick]

That I can think of in no particular order;

- Titles
- Reign
- Opposition
- Longevity

These of course stretch into other things Titles> Lineal> Ring...
Also Opposition> Era/Competion available> Champions he fought...

Again you can break a shit load of these into different one. But for me these 4 pretty much cover it all. The more you dig the more you'll cover.

[Mr140]

This is my list of top 30 atg this list is in order as well see what you guys think.
Muhammad Ali, Ray Robinson, Willey Pep, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, Jimmy Wilde, Sam Langford, Benny Leonard, Jack Johnson, Ray Leonard, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Harry Greb, Floyde Mayweather, Lennox Lewis, Manny Pacquiao, Pernell Whitaker, Evander Holyfield, Larry Holmes, George Forman, Roy Jones Junior, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, Julio Cesar Chavez, Michael Spinks, Bernard Hopkins, Eddie Charles, Carlos Monzon, Sandy Saddler, Archie Moore

[marbleheadmaui]

This is my list of top 30 atg this list is in order as well see what you guys think.
Muhammad Ali, Ray Robinson, Willey Pep, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, Jimmy Wilde, Sam Langford, Benny Leonard, Jack Johnson, Ray Leonard, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Harry Greb, Floyde Mayweather, Lennox Lewis, Manny Pacquiao, Pernell Whitaker, Evander Holyfield, Larry Holmes, George Forman, Roy Jones Junior, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, Julio Cesar Chavez, Michael Spinks, Bernard Hopkins, Eddie Charles, Carlos Monzon, Sandy Saddler, Archie Moore

Not too bad, but I think there are some obvious guys missing. Tony Canzoneri (three division undisputed champion), Bob Fitzsimmons (three division undisputed champion), Barney Ross (three division undisputed champion), Joe Gans (one of the top 3 135's of all time), Jimmy Wilde (the greatest Flyweight of all time), Eder Jofre (arguably the greatest 118 ever as well as 126 champion), Mickey Walker (undisputed 147 and 160 king and beat ranked heavyweights).

There isn't a right answer here. Criteria is all.

[Mr140]

Those are good names marble but i not to sure who i would take out of my top 30 to put them there.

[marbleheadmaui]

Those are good names marble but i not to sure who i would take out of my top 30 to put them there.

If your criteria is accomplishment? Floyd, Roy, Lennox, Hearns, Big George and probably Sandy Saddler and then I'm stuck one of Evander, Marvin or Monzon or Manny I guess (ugh)

If your criteria is otherwise? I have no idea!

Isn't this fun!

[BIG H]

Great thread!!

I don't think you can call John L Sullivan an ATG. It was barely the same sport back then, plus the fact, how can you really judge somebody who you haven't seen fight

[IamInuit]

Yeah theirs only 1 or 2 Robinson fights in existence at 147 and yet he has been the best welter in history since he quit boxing.