Margarito-Cotto II

[TitoFan]

Margaresto does not deserve another payday period.

neither did shane mosley deserve the several big pay days he got after being caugfht cheating

That does not excuse Margaresto and its also apples and oranges. Hopefully their is no need for me to explain.

Mosley didn't set out to MAIM anybody. Also, comparing Mosley to Margarito is ludicrous. One is a humble, likable, classy individual. The other is a class-A scumbag.

[IamInuit]

Margaresto does not deserve another payday period.

neither did shane mosley deserve the several big pay days he got after being caugfht cheating

That does not excuse Margaresto and its also apples and oranges. Hopefully their is no need for me to explain.

Mosley didn't set out to MAIM anybody. Also, comparing Mosley to Margarito is ludicrous. One is a humble, likable, classy individual. The other is a class-A scumbag who most likely fought with loaded gloves since Lujan,

Thought I'd edit that for you

[TitoFan]

Margaresto does not deserve another payday period.

neither did shane mosley deserve the several big pay days he got after being caugfht cheating

That does not excuse Margaresto and its also apples and oranges. Hopefully their is no need for me to explain.

Mosley didn't set out to MAIM anybody. Also, comparing Mosley to Margarito is ludicrous. One is a humble, likable, classy individual. The other is a class-A scumbag who most likely fought with loaded gloves since Lujan,

Thought I'd edit that for you

'ppreciate that.

[Mars_ax]

I could be totally wrong, but I believe Margarito used plaster even before his fight with Cotto, his fights with Cintron come to mind as well.

Not that Tony deserves another big payday but I'd really be interested in seeing Cotto vs. Margarito II, just to see if Miguel can get some payback.

[IamInuit]

Have a gander at Lujan. How do you rip a mans ear off?

[JazMerkin]

1. Margarito hit Cotto 250 times that night. Yet Cotto's injuries were nothing like Billy Collins (the only example I know of where we can see the results of tampering). Indeed Ray Leonard looked worse after beating Tommy Hearns, Iran Barkley looked worse after losing to Roberto Duran and i can go on and on. Cotto's face I'd argue was typical for the loser in a long, grueling fight.

2. Margarito's post-fight behavior in the ring. He gets his gloves cut off pretty quickly and begins shaking hands in a ring jammed with people, Not what I'd expect from a guy with something to hide. When interviewed by Max Kellerman Margarito stands with his arm around someone and that places his still wrapped hand about two feet from Kellerman's face. ASgain, just not the behavior I'd expect of a guy with someone to hide.

Now it is hardly a conclusive case, but it is how I'd bet. Here's the post fight video where EVERYONE can get a good look at Margarito's hands.

Interesting.

I came to it from the angle that people kept asking why he would do it for the first time against Mosley. I'll say that I don't believe it was the first time he or his team attempted it. However, the only occasion previously that I strongly believe he may have done it was the Lujan fight, as on that occasion there was horrific damage done by punches which he seemingly wasn't putting all his force into & at the end he was in no rush to take off those gloves & when he did was heavily surrounded at all times by his team.

Anyway back to the Mosley question. If that was the first time there were a number of reasons why that might be. Margarito had apparently been partying plenty after beating Cotto & had had real trouble with the weight & was reportedly really struggling in sparring. Add to that, Mosley still had his iron chin (which I can almost pinpoint the moment it cracked but that's another thread). Capetillo is a boxing man & would've looked at all that & thought 'shit, there could be real problems here'. He would've looked at Mosley's reach & foreseen real issues getting him to break in the way they did Cotto. Cotto let's bear in mind had chin issues long before Margarito & as high as everyone was on him, the second half of the Mosley fight showed he had issues with stamina & output. Those would be exactly the kind of issues that Margarito with his chin, workrate & stamina would be able to test. I think there would be in fact far more reason to load for Mosley given the surrounding factors than otherwise.

As I said, I believe he maybe did do it before that, but only on occasions where he could get away with it and/or really needed to. A smaller venue show like the Lujan one coming off the back of the Santos loss or on 'home' turf in Cali would seem to fit that more than in Las Vegas against the guy who at that point seemed to be groomed as Top Rank's new poster boy & was being lined up to fight De La Hoya with a win. We'll never know, but let's face it Cotto looked much the same after Pacquiao landed a similar number of punches on it. Although don't go thinking I'm an apologist. I believe Margarito & Capetillo should've been banned for life just like Resto & Lewis were.

[Mars_ax]

According to an article on Eastside, Antonio Margarito's eye surgery was successful and Bob Arum will promote a second fight between he and Miguel Cotto late this year.

Now I think it probable (not definite) that the Margarito victory in the first fight was legitimate. But that is sort of beside the point in examining a second fight. The beating Cotto took was the beating Cotto took. Since then he took a second at the hands of Manny P. He is clearly older and slower and easier to hit than ever. But don't forget, Margarito took a savage beating at Cotto's hands as well and another at Manny's hands and received a third from Shane Mosley. He too is likely older and slower and easier to hit.

Usually when that happens? Rematches are often even more savage and bloody than the initial fight.

What say you? Who has more left? Who has the psychological edge? Who will be more willing to hang in there in the storm? Who wins how and why?

Interesting, why do you think this? I've been of a similar mind lately but I'm curious as to your reasoning?

1. Margarito hit Cotto 250 times that night. Yet Cotto's injuries were nothing like Billy Collins (the only example I know of where we can see the results of tampering). Indeed Ray Leonard looked worse after beating Tommy Hearns, Iran Barkley looked worse after losing to Roberto Duran and i can go on and on. Cotto's face I'd argue was typical for the loser in a long, grueling fight.

2. Margarito's post-fight behavior in the ring. He gets his gloves cut off pretty quickly and begins shaking hands in a ring jammed with people, Not what I'd expect from a guy with something to hide. When interviewed by Max Kellerman Margarito stands with his arm around someone and that places his still wrapped hand about two feet from Kellerman's face. ASgain, just not the behavior I'd expect of a guy with someone to hide.

Now it is hardly a conclusive case, but it is how I'd bet. Here's the post fight video where EVERYONE can get a good look at Margarito's hands.

Margo gets his gloves cut off, but would you really be able to see anything? His hands could be loaded with plaster and you wouldn't be able to see it unless the wraps were being cut off, just saying.

In my humble opinion Margo beat Cotto with loaded wraps, and Cotto will fuck him up in the rematch. (if there is one)

[Spicoli]

Have a gander at Lujan. How do you rip a mans ear off?

I wont argue something thats impossible to prove but repeated uppercuts and cuffing shots comes to mind? There was a fight two months ago on FNF that was stopped in the 10th round. Exact same time guys ear became grotesquely swollen at base and protruded outward. Think Slaw from the Goonies. I think a few more shots after that human hematoma and it would have shredded & looked exact same way.

[marbleheadmaui]

1. Margarito hit Cotto 250 times that night. Yet Cotto's injuries were nothing like Billy Collins (the only example I know of where we can see the results of tampering). Indeed Ray Leonard looked worse after beating Tommy Hearns, Iran Barkley looked worse after losing to Roberto Duran and i can go on and on. Cotto's face I'd argue was typical for the loser in a long, grueling fight.

2. Margarito's post-fight behavior in the ring. He gets his gloves cut off pretty quickly and begins shaking hands in a ring jammed with people, Not what I'd expect from a guy with something to hide. When interviewed by Max Kellerman Margarito stands with his arm around someone and that places his still wrapped hand about two feet from Kellerman's face. ASgain, just not the behavior I'd expect of a guy with someone to hide.

Now it is hardly a conclusive case, but it is how I'd bet. Here's the post fight video where EVERYONE can get a good look at Margarito's hands.

Interesting.

I came to it from the angle that people kept asking why he would do it for the first time against Mosley. I'll say that I don't believe it was the first time he or his team attempted it. However, the only occasion previously that I strongly believe he may have done it was the Lujan fight, as on that occasion there was horrific damage done by punches which he seemingly wasn't putting all his force into & at the end he was in no rush to take off those gloves & when he did was heavily surrounded at all times by his team.

Anyway back to the Mosley question. If that was the first time there were a number of reasons why that might be. Margarito had apparently been partying plenty after beating Cotto & had had real trouble with the weight & was reportedly really struggling in sparring. Add to that, Mosley still had his iron chin (which I can almost pinpoint the moment it cracked but that's another thread). Capetillo is a boxing man & would've looked at all that & thought 'shit, there could be real problems here'. He would've looked at Mosley's reach & foreseen real issues getting him to break in the way they did Cotto. Cotto let's bear in mind had chin issues long before Margarito & as high as everyone was on him, the second half of the Mosley fight showed he had issues with stamina & output. Those would be exactly the kind of issues that Margarito with his chin, workrate & stamina would be able to test. I think there would be in fact far more reason to load for Mosley given the surrounding factors than otherwise.

As I said, I believe he maybe did do it before that, but only on occasions where he could get away with it and/or really needed to. A smaller venue show like the Lujan one coming off the back of the Santos loss or on 'home' turf in Cali would seem to fit that more than in Las Vegas against the guy who at that point seemed to be groomed as Top Rank's new poster boy & was being lined up to fight De La Hoya with a win. We'll never know, but let's face it Cotto looked much the same after Pacquiao landed a similar number of punches on it. Although don't go thinking I'm an apologist. I believe Margarito & Capetillo should've been banned for life just like Resto & Lewis were.

I do too. I also think your first paragraph provides a reasonable answer to "why would he begin with Mosely."

[marbleheadmaui]

Margaresto does not deserve another payday period.

neither did shane mosley deserve the several big pay days he got after being caugfht cheating

That does not excuse Margaresto and its also apples and oranges. Hopefully their is no need for me to explain.

Mosley didn't set out to MAIM anybody. Also, comparing Mosley to Margarito is ludicrous. One is a humble, likable, classy individual. The other is a class-A scumbag.

I think Margarito and Mosely committed the same crime. In a sport already risking death, both men chose to further endanger the other man's life in the name of victory.

[IamInuit]

Have a gander at Lujan. How do you rip a mans ear off?

I wont argue something thats impossible to prove but repeated uppercuts and cuffing shots comes to mind? There was a fight two months ago on FNF that was stopped in the 10th round. Exact same time guys ear became grotesquely swollen at base and protruded outward. Think Slaw from the Goonies. I think a few more shots after that human hematoma and it would have shredded & looked exact same way.

Fair enough. How about this, it does not take a giant leap of faith to suppose he cheated prior to being caught?

[Spicoli]

Have a gander at Lujan. How do you rip a mans ear off?

I wont argue something thats impossible to prove but repeated uppercuts and cuffing shots comes to mind? There was a fight two months ago on FNF that was stopped in the 10th round. Exact same time guys ear became grotesquely swollen at base and protruded outward. Think Slaw from the Goonies. I think a few more shots after that human hematoma and it would have shredded & looked exact same way.

Fair enough. How about this, it does not take a giant leap of faith to suppose he cheated prior to being caught?

Anythings possible, absolutley. Just dont think he was dirty throughout. He gets no pass on Mosley and proven. Frankly he acted like a mute donkey afterwards, should have been pounding chest in defiance if the case. Do think on bigger picture sport missed oppurtunity to reform commisions and propel off this...there cant be a Naz in every dressing room.