A new Haye v Klit thread, lets not argue

[armyash]

Ok i thought i'd begin a Haye Vs Klitschko thread where i make my prediction. It'd be refreshing to have a grown up discussion about it where there are no slagging off and insults. Lets try and voice our opinions and give good reasoning behind our thoughts.....not Haye is a bum, Klitschko is shit blah blah blah

Over the last week or so i have been speaking to mates on fbook about the fight. We all have around the same knowledge of boxing, pretty average, so the debates can get interesting we dont have a smart arse shooting us down with an encyclopedia of facts lol.

First up my prediction is Haye in 4 (ok stop laughing guys ).

Haye although relatively inexperienced at heavyweight has shown he can box a certain way depending on his opponent. He hasn't always been impressive but he has got the job done.

Barrett-Not an ATG but also not a bad first fight at HW. He has mixed with a lot of good guys of the past decade (not that it means a lot) Not overly dangerous but as we all know it only takes 1 punch with the big boys. Haye knew he would get a few rounds in against a known American and he didn't have it all his own way 100% of the time. He took some heavyweight shots and earned the right to call himself a genuine HW.

Valuev - he barely threw a punch but he DID win the fight. He stayed elusive and boxed the fight the best way he could against such a huge guy. If he had have been trapped on the ropes for any length of time he would not have had the strength to get valuev off him and his energy would have been sapped quickly. He showed he can go the distance using his legs a lot, not many heavyweights would do that so easily. Standing toe to toe was not an option due mainly to the difference in size. Hayes lack of reach put him against a big big disadvantage.

Ruiz- Not many people have had a high opinion of Ruiz from what i have read on this forum over the years but i definitely feel he was fairly well respected by the the time of the haye fight. he had been in or around the top 10 for a long time and had been hit and miss with the top guys. Some he won and some he lost. Definitely nearing the end of his career come time to fight Haye so it is questionable how much ambition he had left going in to the fight. With the exception of the Tua fight i believe Ruiz had shown himself to be a tough guy who could take a decent shot. Haye handled him well, the first round KD was good and haye was on top for most of the fight. Once again valuable HW rounds in the bag, took some shots, built his confidence and allowed his body to grow in to the division some more.

Harrison- not going to insult anyone on the forum by saying too much about this fight. Barely a punch thrown until Haye unleashed in the third. Crowded his work a bit but very very explosive against a big man. For what it's worth Haye could probably have taken Audley out at any point before that but maybe he and his mates did have some big money on the third. Only thing this fight did was line everyones pockets but Haye did get another valuable training camp preparing for a big man.

Right my reasons for picking Haye are this: Too explosive i think he will be able to launch in to attack and land some bombs before Klitschko has time to think about it let alone see it. His speed will without a doubt trouble Klitschko. Haye hits just as hard thanks to his speed. He is quick on his feet and he will attack at different angles. Klitschko is very effective in straight lines and a lot of his recent opponents have played in to his hands. Haye will be coming into this fight a fully fledged HW albeit much smaller than Klitschko. With Booth in his corner you know they will have an answer for the difference in size. I see Haye attacking fairly fast, hard and early in the fight put WK off his stride and make him wary of letting his own hands go and leaving his chin exposed. I believe his combinations will be effective against Klits straight shots.

Next up i would like to point out that i consider WK an amazing fighter, a true athlete, a decent humble guy and a credit to the sport. Since his last couple of losses he has recovered greatly and cleared out everyone put in front of him. Trouble is he has had most of it his own way and the opponents have suited him. he gets late stoppages due to wearing the guy down he doesnt get a lot of early 1 punch knock outs. Problem for me is also his opponents have not come in the best of shape ready to go 12 hard rounds with the HW champ. Thats not Klits fault but it wont have done him any favours either. Alot has been made of his style jab jab grab etc i think it's being exaggerated because i'm sure when klit needs to have a war he will. It's just all he has needed is the jab jab grab. Even Steward gets frustrated by WK and his safety first approach, cant really knock it if it works but i think it's the worst style to employ against Haye.

My reason for this post is i made my prediction clear on fbook last week and i tend not to change my predictions a lot if i can help it otherwise by time i settle something finally i have covered every option and it's pointless lol.

I'm under no illusions, if Haye gets tagged by a monster right hand it could be game over and they do both go down when caught but both have big hearts and get up most of the time. I just see Haye landing the destructive punches first. I think Haye and his team have planned this to perfection and the timing will be spot on. Peaking at just the right time mentally and physically.

In all honestly I say it's a 50/50 fight......but my prediction is Haye in 4

[Dark Lord Al]

I will be watching this fight , and think it could go either way , however people are talking about how Wlad has been koed 3 times etc.
The fact is Haye hasnt been hit by anyone who even hits half as powerfully as Wlad hits , yes Haye can win inside 3 , but its not impossible Wlad KOs Haye with the first big punch he lands.
My head tells me Wlad will win inside 2 , but its a close call.
it wont last 3 rounds either way.

[armyash]

I dont give too much consideration to his ko's to be honest he has proven himself a great fighter since those.

Good prediction.

I'd be surprised to hear of anyone predicting a distance fight.

[marbleheadmaui]

Nice post.

Here's how I see it.

13 was life and death with a journeyman in Barret, he threw, ahem, 13 punches a round against a lumbering, incompetent giant and half the ringside sportswriters had him losing. John Ruiz hadn't had a quality win in five years and Audley was, well Audley. The Valuev fight really bugs me. 13 was entirely too willing to leave his fate in the hands of the judges. I mean seriously, 13 punches THROWN a round? I can't come up with a big fight where the LOSER threw so infrequently.

Wlad's chin is Wlad's chin, but when is the last time anyone got close? He's improved over the last five years to an incredible degree. While 13 has fought four times in three years and beaten one ranked guy, Wlad has fought six times in the same period and KO'd four ranked guys and Hasim Rachman.

I just don't think this fight is competitive.

[armyash]

Nice post.

Here's how I see it.

13 was life and death with a journeyman in Barret, he threw, ahem, 13 punches a round against a lumbering, incompetent giant and half the ringside sportswriters had him losing. John Ruiz hadn't had a quality win in five years and Audley was, well Audley. The Valuev fight really bugs me. 13 was entirely too willing to leave his fate in the hands of the judges. I mean seriously, 13 punches THROWN a round? I can't come up with a big fight where the LOSER threw so infrequently.

Wlad's chin is Wlad's chin, but when is the last time anyone got close? He's improved over the last five years to an incredible degree. While 13 has fought four times in three years and beaten one ranked guy, Wlad has fought six times in the same period and KO'd four ranked guys and Hasim Rachman.

I just don't think this fight is competitive.

True Wlads chin has not been tested seriously for some time. Have to give him credit because he has made his opponents ineffective. On that note how many of his opponents have been criticised for coming in seriously overweight thinking that it will level the playing field?

On Hayes inactivity i am leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt and say he has been letting his body adapt to the weight and has allowed himself to do it properly. Look how RJJ bulked looked very impressive but would not have been good long term.

I agree with all your points regarding Hayes HW opponents. There are a lot of negative points to look at i supppose i was concentrating on the positives to justify my prediction. I do genuinely believe Haye beat valuev but some will say otherwise i just cant see it.....but not the topic at hand so i'll leave it lol

I see it being competitive while it lasts, 2 well trained athletes confident in their ability and both with a winners mindset and each showing a strong desire to get the win.

[Mar]

Haye will try too hard and get ko'ed. Just my guess. Haye knows with all the fitness and healthy talk he mumbles about that he won't have the stamina to go rounds trying to get around that jab jab right so when he gets in there and realizes that the klits are easy to beat watching them, But actually fighting them is a whole different task. He says he'll do something different like they all say. He'll try, then try something else get caught and the confetti will fly. It'd be nice to something new, a kinda change in the hw division. But i highly doubt it.

[marbleheadmaui]

Nice post.

Here's how I see it.

13 was life and death with a journeyman in Barret, he threw, ahem, 13 punches a round against a lumbering, incompetent giant and half the ringside sportswriters had him losing. John Ruiz hadn't had a quality win in five years and Audley was, well Audley. The Valuev fight really bugs me. 13 was entirely too willing to leave his fate in the hands of the judges. I mean seriously, 13 punches THROWN a round? I can't come up with a big fight where the LOSER threw so infrequently.

Wlad's chin is Wlad's chin, but when is the last time anyone got close? He's improved over the last five years to an incredible degree. While 13 has fought four times in three years and beaten one ranked guy, Wlad has fought six times in the same period and KO'd four ranked guys and Hasim Rachman.

I just don't think this fight is competitive.

True Wlads chin has not been tested seriously for some time. Have to give him credit because he has made his opponents ineffective. On that note how many of his opponents have been criticised for coming in seriously overweight thinking that it will level the playing field?
On Hayes inactivity i am leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt and say he has been letting his body adapt to the weight and has allowed himself to do it properly. Look how RJJ bulked looked very impressive but would not have been good long term.

I agree with all your points regarding Hayes HW opponents. There are a lot of negative points to look at i supppose i was concentrating on the positives to justify my prediction. I do genuinely believe Haye beat valuev but some will say otherwise i just cant see it.....but not the topic at hand so i'll leave it lol

I see it being competitive while it lasts, 2 well trained athletes confident in their ability and both with a winners mindset and each showing a strong desire to get the win.

It's a very fair point on Wlad's competition and their ability to get to his chin. They only seem to go 2-3 rounds before they get very discouraged.

On 13's inactivity? The ONLY way to get used to a new body is to use it. Twitter posts and playing video games ain't gonna get it done

The last bold is what bugged me about the Valuev fight. 13 seemed more than willing to let the judges decide his fate in what HAD to be viewed as a nip and tuck fight. I just don't know what 13's desire level really is.

I have this sneaking, unprovable suspicion that 13's true desire is to get a big payday, do so without risking serious injury, and then get out of the sport.

Now having said all that, strange things happen in boxing and does 13 have some chance of landing the big shot on Wlad? Sure. But I think it's a very remote chance.

Of course that's why they actually fight the fights

[Fenster]

Nice post.

Here's how I see it.

13 was life and death with a journeyman in Barret, he threw, ahem, 13 punches a round against a lumbering, incompetent giant and half the ringside sportswriters had him losing. John Ruiz hadn't had a quality win in five years and Audley was, well Audley. The Valuev fight really bugs me. 13 was entirely too willing to leave his fate in the hands of the judges. I mean seriously, 13 punches THROWN a round? I can't come up with a big fight where the LOSER threw so infrequently.

Wlad's chin is Wlad's chin, but when is the last time anyone got close? He's improved over the last five years to an incredible degree. While 13 has fought four times in three years and beaten one ranked guy, Wlad has fought six times in the same period and KO'd four ranked guys and Hasim Rachman.

I just don't think this fight is competitive.

True Wlads chin has not been tested seriously for some time. Have to give him credit because he has made his opponents ineffective. On that note how many of his opponents have been criticised for coming in seriously overweight thinking that it will level the playing field?
On Hayes inactivity i am leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt and say he has been letting his body adapt to the weight and has allowed himself to do it properly. Look how RJJ bulked looked very impressive but would not have been good long term.

I agree with all your points regarding Hayes HW opponents. There are a lot of negative points to look at i supppose i was concentrating on the positives to justify my prediction. I do genuinely believe Haye beat valuev but some will say otherwise i just cant see it.....but not the topic at hand so i'll leave it lol

I see it being competitive while it lasts, 2 well trained athletes confident in their ability and both with a winners mindset and each showing a strong desire to get the win.

It's a very fair point on Wlad's competition and their ability to get to his chin. They only seem to go 2-3 rounds before they get very discouraged.

On 13's inactivity? The ONLY way to get used to a new body is to use it. Twitter posts and playing video games ain't gonna get it done

The last bold is what bugged me about the Valuev fight. 13 seemed more than willing to let the judges decide his fate in what HAD to be viewed as a nip and tuck fight. I just don't know what 13's desire level really is.

I have this sneaking, unprovable suspicion that 13's true desire is to get a big payday, do so without risking serious injury, and then get out of the sport.

Now having said all that, strange things happen in boxing and does 13 have some chance of landing the big shot on Wlad? Sure. But I think it's a very remote chance.

Of course that's why they actually fight the fights

Haye has been fighting since he was 10. He's made over $20 million in his last few fights alone. He never went "life and death" with Monte Barrett and even if averaging just 13 punches a round, it was still plenty good enough to get a decision in the other guys backyard (half those sports writers must have been drunk. Did Valuev even land a punch the whole fight?).

To question his heart/desire is a liberty. He came back, and learned, from the Thompson defeat. He won the lineal cruiserweight title away from home (on a Don King promotion to boot). He beat Valuev away from home. He is now trying to become the world heavyweight champion - away from home.

He's already made millions, he has found great fame in Britain, so if he didn't really want to fight Wlad why risk the humiliation?

[erics44]

Nice post.

Here's how I see it.

13 was life and death with a journeyman in Barret, he threw, ahem, 13 punches a round against a lumbering, incompetent giant and half the ringside sportswriters had him losing. John Ruiz hadn't had a quality win in five years and Audley was, well Audley. The Valuev fight really bugs me. 13 was entirely too willing to leave his fate in the hands of the judges. I mean seriously, 13 punches THROWN a round? I can't come up with a big fight where the LOSER threw so infrequently.

Wlad's chin is Wlad's chin, but when is the last time anyone got close? He's improved over the last five years to an incredible degree. While 13 has fought four times in three years and beaten one ranked guy, Wlad has fought six times in the same period and KO'd four ranked guys and Hasim Rachman.

I just don't think this fight is competitive.

True Wlads chin has not been tested seriously for some time. Have to give him credit because he has made his opponents ineffective. On that note how many of his opponents have been criticised for coming in seriously overweight thinking that it will level the playing field?
On Hayes inactivity i am leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt and say he has been letting his body adapt to the weight and has allowed himself to do it properly. Look how RJJ bulked looked very impressive but would not have been good long term.

I agree with all your points regarding Hayes HW opponents. There are a lot of negative points to look at i supppose i was concentrating on the positives to justify my prediction. I do genuinely believe Haye beat valuev but some will say otherwise i just cant see it.....but not the topic at hand so i'll leave it lol

I see it being competitive while it lasts, 2 well trained athletes confident in their ability and both with a winners mindset and each showing a strong desire to get the win.

It's a very fair point on Wlad's competition and their ability to get to his chin. They only seem to go 2-3 rounds before they get very discouraged.

On 13's inactivity? The ONLY way to get used to a new body is to use it. Twitter posts and playing video games ain't gonna get it done

The last bold is what bugged me about the Valuev fight. 13 seemed more than willing to let the judges decide his fate in what HAD to be viewed as a nip and tuck fight. I just don't know what 13's desire level really is.

I have this sneaking, unprovable suspicion that 13's true desire is to get a big payday, do so without risking serious injury, and then get out of the sport.

Now having said all that, strange things happen in boxing and does 13 have some chance of landing the big shot on Wlad? Sure. But I think it's a very remote chance.

Of course that's why they actually fight the fights

you say some strange things for someone who doesnt care what the outcome of the fight is

id put your passion for wlad up along side mars ex, elterrible and lyle

theres no shame in it, its what makes you a boxing fan

[Dropanuke]

Nice post.

Here's how I see it.

13 was life and death with a journeyman in Barret, he threw, ahem, 13 punches a round against a lumbering, incompetent giant and half the ringside sportswriters had him losing. John Ruiz hadn't had a quality win in five years and Audley was, well Audley. The Valuev fight really bugs me. 13 was entirely too willing to leave his fate in the hands of the judges. I mean seriously, 13 punches THROWN a round? I can't come up with a big fight where the LOSER threw so infrequently.

Wlad's chin is Wlad's chin, but when is the last time anyone got close? He's improved over the last five years to an incredible degree. While 13 has fought four times in three years and beaten one ranked guy, Wlad has fought six times in the same period and KO'd four ranked guys and Hasim Rachman.

I just don't think this fight is competitive.

True Wlads chin has not been tested seriously for some time. Have to give him credit because he has made his opponents ineffective. On that note how many of his opponents have been criticised for coming in seriously overweight thinking that it will level the playing field?
On Hayes inactivity i am leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt and say he has been letting his body adapt to the weight and has allowed himself to do it properly. Look how RJJ bulked looked very impressive but would not have been good long term.

I agree with all your points regarding Hayes HW opponents. There are a lot of negative points to look at i supppose i was concentrating on the positives to justify my prediction. I do genuinely believe Haye beat valuev but some will say otherwise i just cant see it.....but not the topic at hand so i'll leave it lol

I see it being competitive while it lasts, 2 well trained athletes confident in their ability and both with a winners mindset and each showing a strong desire to get the win.

It's a very fair point on Wlad's competition and their ability to get to his chin. They only seem to go 2-3 rounds before they get very discouraged.

On 13's inactivity? The ONLY way to get used to a new body is to use it. Twitter posts and playing video games ain't gonna get it done

The last bold is what bugged me about the Valuev fight. 13 seemed more than willing to let the judges decide his fate in what HAD to be viewed as a nip and tuck fight. I just don't know what 13's desire level really is.

I have this sneaking, unprovable suspicion that 13's true desire is to get a big payday, do so without risking serious injury, and then get out of the sport.

Now having said all that, strange things happen in boxing and does 13 have some chance of landing the big shot on Wlad? Sure. But I think it's a very remote chance.

Of course that's why they actually fight the fights

you say some strange things for someone who doesnt care what the outcome of the fight is

id put your passion for wlad up along side mars ex, elterrible and lyle

theres no shame in it, its what makes you a boxing fan

I like ur attention to detail.

[Master]

I think it may actually go the distance because Haye will use his speed and ring movements by fighting on the outside. If he gets too close he will get hit with the jab and knocked out by the right hand. If he gets tied by Wlad he will get sapped by Wlad leaning on him and tiring him out. He will rely on his superior stamina and speed to take it into the later rounds and try and knock him out then, by which time I think time will have run out and Haye loses a controversial decision for the second British fighter in 2 weeks.

[armyash]

Nice post.

Here's how I see it.

13 was life and death with a journeyman in Barret, he threw, ahem, 13 punches a round against a lumbering, incompetent giant and half the ringside sportswriters had him losing. John Ruiz hadn't had a quality win in five years and Audley was, well Audley. The Valuev fight really bugs me. 13 was entirely too willing to leave his fate in the hands of the judges. I mean seriously, 13 punches THROWN a round? I can't come up with a big fight where the LOSER threw so infrequently.

Wlad's chin is Wlad's chin, but when is the last time anyone got close? He's improved over the last five years to an incredible degree. While 13 has fought four times in three years and beaten one ranked guy, Wlad has fought six times in the same period and KO'd four ranked guys and Hasim Rachman.

I just don't think this fight is competitive.

True Wlads chin has not been tested seriously for some time. Have to give him credit because he has made his opponents ineffective. On that note how many of his opponents have been criticised for coming in seriously overweight thinking that it will level the playing field?
On Hayes inactivity i am leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt and say he has been letting his body adapt to the weight and has allowed himself to do it properly. Look how RJJ bulked looked very impressive but would not have been good long term.

I agree with all your points regarding Hayes HW opponents. There are a lot of negative points to look at i supppose i was concentrating on the positives to justify my prediction. I do genuinely believe Haye beat valuev but some will say otherwise i just cant see it.....but not the topic at hand so i'll leave it lol

I see it being competitive while it lasts, 2 well trained athletes confident in their ability and both with a winners mindset and each showing a strong desire to get the win.

It's a very fair point on Wlad's competition and their ability to get to his chin. They only seem to go 2-3 rounds before they get very discouraged.

On 13's inactivity? The ONLY way to get used to a new body is to use it. Twitter posts and playing video games ain't gonna get it done

The last bold is what bugged me about the Valuev fight. 13 seemed more than willing to let the judges decide his fate in what HAD to be viewed as a nip and tuck fight. I just don't know what 13's desire level really is.

I have this sneaking, unprovable suspicion that 13's true desire is to get a big payday, do so without risking serious injury, and then get out of the sport.

Now having said all that, strange things happen in boxing and does 13 have some chance of landing the big shot on Wlad? Sure. But I think it's a very remote chance.

Of course that's why they actually fight the fights

There was an arrogance about Haye that he thought he could win the fight throwing such few shots but that fact that Valuev didn't land much of any significance either worked in his favour on the judges cards.

Yeah Haye has given the impression he has a strong desire to win when talking about the fight but we wont actually know for sure until the fight gets underway. Thing is though Haye has heaped an absolutely incredible amount of pressure on himself....if i think about it long enough i swear i can feel it too . Haye hasn't really left himself much choice but to attempt and win the fight in devastating fashion. He has a good chance of that happening but i see him taking some big shots himself too.

Booth has made it clear that Team Hayes plan is to make a huge amount of money and get out of the sport unharmed so i don't think Haye tries to disguise the fact that he is money orientated.

[armyash]

I think it may actually go the distance because Haye will use his speed and ring movements by fighting on the outside. If he gets too close he will get hit with the jab and knocked out by the right hand. If he gets tied by Wlad he will get sapped by Wlad leaning on him and tiring him out. He will rely on his superior stamina and speed to take it into the later rounds and try and knock him out then, by which time I think time will have run out and Haye loses a controversial decision for the second British fighter in 2 weeks.

That's not a bad way of looking at the fight. There's not many people talking about a distance fight though - we could all be getting taken in by the hype surrounding it all! lol

My brother said earlier that he sees it going the distance but in Hayes favour. For me thats a very unlikely outcome.

I can't see Haye being able to keep Klitschko off him for 12 rounds. Very very different to Valuev, Klit will be able to manouvre him in to the corner and if he traps him on the ropes he wont find it easy to get away, much busier than Valuev too, The longer the fight goes the harder it will be for Haye and i can't imagine his ego will allow him to take a sustained beating over the distance, i think the towel would come in or there would be a retirement before that happens.

I'd be very surprised to see a close competitive fight for 12 rounds that was really close on the cards. just don't see a distance fight at all. After a round or two though we will have a better idea of how it's going to pan out. I'm excited to see what tactics Haye will be using.

[erics44]

I like ur attention to detail.

thanks some people even call me a perfectionist

[armin]

Wlad ko in 6-8, there probably will be a scarry moment for wlad along the way. Haye is quick, but honestly he's not all that good defensively, wlad will have no problem finding a home for his jab. In round 5 or 6 wlad will feel comfortable to shoot the right more and more and then thereabouts haye goes to sleep.