Haye Fans Gather Round: What's the winning formula?

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Time the jab, step off to the side Right hand over the top. That will win the fight.

Its his only hope really.
Hope he's been practicing it. I recon the only way to time that reach and jab would be to have been practicing with a tall lanky lighter weighted fast ground coverer that throws controlling jabs.Then break down the timing with reactive footwork so that as he moves Haye also shifts or attacks the jab out of the way to disrupt balance so to still catch them coming and be in distance with a finishing combo as wlads reacting. Easier said than done if you haven't been doing it in sparring. that overhand right would be a wicked finisher if the opponent was still reacting to something else so it is unseen.

Still Wlad within 10 minutes.

Time the jab, step to the right and BOOM! Left hook by Wlad off the jab.

Yeah thats pretty much it, its why i thought he has to upset his balance or rhythm or something , its not just going to work by upsetting his feelings in an interview.

Seems like Me, Lyle & Marb all agree that Wlad's Hook is a huge threat...For me, It's the punch Haye wont see coming if he is not careful.

Haye cannot afford to spend too long simply avoiding jabs and setting traps but I'm sure he will find some success (from the middle of the ring to the ropes) by slipping / stepping/ sniping if he chooses to plant his feet at the right time. I've seen Chambers, Brock & Thompson all have varied success at this. The only problem all those guys had was that they weren't fast enough on their feet... Or they just didn't move at all.

Haye, I'm sure, can 'go missing' if he wants to which leads me to believe this can easily be a long fight, because Haye won't be as desperate as it may seem to some.

I think Haye believes that he will simply move a round the ring, flirt with Wladimir's punching range, keep him on edge and just pick his moments in getting to Wladimir.

I think a huge part of Hayes success in putting pressure on Wladimir and finding his chin is by showing that he can reach Wladimir's ribs... Not via bobbing and weaving or constant furious movements but by staying out of range, keeping Wladimir's foot work in check, picking his moments, feint up top and throwing downstairs.

He also has to realistic and assume that no amount of manoeuvring is going to engineer success in combination punching.

One of the reasons why is because nigh on every time someone takes a swing at Wladimir, he skips straight back (in a straight line), regardless of where the attacks come from or where he is situated around the ring. (Meaning this can be used against him to drive him to the ropes).

The other thing he does is strong-arm you two ways, either in a sort of arms out in the air like Hasim Rahman's 'My arms are longer than Lennox Lewis' sort of way which is effective at deflecting incoming punches... Or he simply pushes your head down.

The main thing is remembering that Wladimir always retreats in straight lines so if you can drive him back to the ropes where (if your smart, patient, explosive & accurate) you can probably initiate a more intense & sustained body attack (without bobbing and weaving as mentioned earlier) as Wladimir will instinctively look to do some very rudimentary things, none of which include protecting his body.

This puts Pressure on Wladimir to do some relatively rash things which puts him right where David wants him.

It's all about manoeuvring him to the ropes and putting pressure on him to lash out.
All of which would be far more easier to do in a southpaw stance IMO.

[Mattyhitman]

Time the jab, step off to the side Right hand over the top. That will win the fight.

Its his only hope really.
Hope he's been practicing it. I recon the only way to time that reach and jab would be to have been practicing with a tall lanky lighter weighted fast ground coverer that throws controlling jabs.Then break down the timing with reactive footwork so that as he moves Haye also shifts or attacks the jab out of the way to disrupt balance so to still catch them coming and be in distance with a finishing combo as wlads reacting. Easier said than done if you haven't been doing it in sparring. that overhand right would be a wicked finisher if the opponent was still reacting to something else so it is unseen.

Still Wlad within 10 minutes.

Time the jab, step to the right and BOOM! Left hook by Wlad off the jab.

Yeah thats pretty much it, its why i thought he has to upset his balance or rhythm or something , its not just going to work by upsetting his feelings in an interview.

Seems like Me, Lyle & Marb all agree that Wlad's Hook is a huge threat...For me, It's the punch Haye wont see coming if he is not careful.

Haye cannot afford to spend too long simply avoiding jabs and setting traps but I'm sure he will find some success (from the middle of the ring to the ropes) by slipping / stepping/ sniping if he chooses to plant his feet at the right time. I've seen Chambers, Brock & Thompson all have varied success at this. The only problem all those guys had was that they weren't fast enough on their feet... Or they just didn't move at all.

Haye, I'm sure, can 'go missing' if he wants to which leads me to believe this can easily be a long fight, because Haye won't be as desperate as it may seem to some.

I think Haye believes that he will simply move a round the ring, flirt with Wladimir's punching range, keep him on edge and just pick his moments in getting to Wladimir.

I think a huge part of Hayes success in putting pressure on Wladimir and finding his chin is by showing that he can reach Wladimir's ribs... Not via bobbing and weaving or constant furious movements but by staying out of range, keeping Wladimir's foot work in check, picking his moments, feint up top and throwing downstairs.

He also has to realistic and assume that no amount of manoeuvring is going to engineer success in combination punching.

One of the reasons why is because nigh on every time someone takes a swing at Wladimir, he skips straight back (in a straight line), regardless of where the attacks come from or where he is situated around the ring. (Meaning this can be used against him to drive him to the ropes).

The other thing he does is strong-arm you two ways, either in a sort of arms out in the air like Hasim Rahman's 'My arms are longer than Lennox Lewis' sort of way which is effective at deflecting incoming punches... Or he simply pushes your head down.

The main thing is remembering that Wladimir always retreats in straight lines so if you can drive him back to the ropes where (if your smart, patient, explosive & accurate) you can probably initiate a more intense & sustained body attack (without bobbing and weaving as mentioned earlier) as Wladimir will instinctively look to do some very rudimentary things, none of which include protecting his body.

This puts Pressure on Wladimir to do some relatively rash things which puts him right where David wants him.

It's all about manoeuvring him to the ropes and putting pressure on him to lash out.
All of which would be far more easier to do in a southpaw stance IMO.

Spot on mate, good post

I mentioned a while back that for me the way to bringing down the giant is to attack the body, then follow up with the uppercuts inside.
If Haye can get Wlad backed up to the ropes, as you mention, then the combo of a couple of body shots followed by the huge uppercut is one I would like to see him employ.
He showed against Valuev he can stay out the way, albeit against a less mobile opponent than what Wlad is, but lets be real here, Wlad aint the most fluid of fighters is he ?

[Hornfinger]

Nope, it's a threat, but haye shouldn't be in a postition where wlad can use it.

No because Haye is outside of wlads glove. To hit him with a left hook wlad would basically have to hit haye with the back of his left glove to wind up the hook.

if executed correctly hayes whole position would be out side of wlads left foot. Haye would effectively be attacking from the side. To counter the counter with a left hook wouldn't be possible or practicle.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

No because Haye is outside of wlads glove. To hit him with a left hook wlad would basically have to hit haye with the back of his left glove to wind up the hook.

if executed correctly hayes whole position would be out side of wlads left foot.

Well is it feet or glove? Like I said before, it would depend on their feet. Gloves mean nothing, Haye could side step, be complete aside of Wlad and still get nailed.... And even if he was aside of Wladimir, hand and foot, he'd have to cross his feet in order to land an effective blow? Otherwise he'd just be too far away?


Here you can see Austin is completely aside of Wladimir yet Wladimir is still in a position to throw.



The thing that has me worrying is that Haye likes to move, he likes to punch but he seldom moves while punching fluidly, unless it's the occasional forward march. So I'm just a bit concerned that Haye will finds himself evading/ slipping/ sidestepping shot after shot, for to long, with no reply only to then get timed with one of those above.

[shamma]

Maybe thats what he means by being a completley different david haye on the night hes going to go southpaw or chop and change through out the fight or its just purely mind games!Be very risky if he did cause of wlads right hand,something to consider..

[Hornfinger]

No because Haye is outside of wlads glove. To hit him with a left hook wlad would basically have to hit haye with the back of his left glove to wind up the hook.

if executed correctly hayes whole position would be out side of wlads left foot.

Well is it feet or glove? Like I said before, it would depend on their feet. Gloves mean nothing, Haye could side step, be complete aside of Wlad and still get nailed.... And even if he was aside of Wladimir, hand and foot, he'd have to cross his feet in order to land an effective blow? Otherwise he'd just be too far away?


Here you can see Austin is completely aside of Wladimir yet Wladimir is still in a position to throw.



The thing that has me worrying is that Haye likes to move, he likes to punch but he seldom moves while punching fluidly, unless it's the occasional forward march. So I'm just a bit concerned that Haye will finds himself evading/ slipping/ sidestepping shot after shot, for to long, with no reply only to then get timed with one of those above.

Great pictures.

Is that wlad hooking off the jab though? or just throwing a left hook with no jab before it?

Austin isn't far enough to the side and hasn't moved closer to wlad for the counter. The picture sort of shows what I'm talking about but a very very poor execution of it.

[Memphis]

Here you can see Austin is completely aside of Wladimir yet Wladimir is still in a position to throw.

Austin was stood stationary in a corner waiting to get hit no?

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I think Wlad went a little right hand crazy against Tony Thompson because he wasn't moving his head (or feet for that matter) but to be honest, I think Wlad would be a sucker for going right hand crazy on Haye.... Maybe the southpaw thing will sucker Wlad into it?

[#1FightFan]

im excited about his fight!!! i dont like either fighter much, but i hope haye wins.
tired of seeing klits fight bum of the month. haye has a good chance.
id like to see a corrie sanders assault upon klit. that is the only way i see haye winning.
bumrush klit and go for broke!!! let it all go, for all the marbles!!!
and not let up till klit goes to sleep.

brewer, sanders & now haye!!! WORK THAT KLIT!!!!

[0james0]

I think it's all about the jab. Wlad will pump it all night and you need to find a way to not only stop it, but to get past it and get close enough to get shots off.

I have a feeling Haye will dance around much like the Valuev fight, not sure if that is the right tactic, but I just have a feeling he'll keep his distance and try raid attacks now and then to try and avoid getting hit by the big right.

It's fascinating stuff though reading you guys pick apart these things though. The pictures were great.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Stood? No.

[Memphis]

What was he doing then?

Im genuinly loving the use of diagram though so heres my offering . I've either got bad eyes or Austin was stood in front waiting to get hit, Wlad didnt do anything out of the ordinary.

wlad austin.jpg

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

LOL Memf, where's he animated Giff then?! lol

No seriously, the horse is officially dead and beat I know... but to be fair, Austin was already moving before Wlad planted his feet and then Austin dipped in reaction as Wlad threw the shot (as you've illustrated).

The point I was making was aimed at the angle. HF was saying the shot (WK's hook) would be impractical from that angle (once Haye had side-stepped the jab to counter with the right hand) and I was showing that a hook was perfectly practical depending on the position of their feet but also that if their feet were not in line then David would probably be to far over to counter anyway. (Baring in mind this is Wladimir Klitschko were talking about).

I admit, it's a whole load of nothing but I guess I'm in this mode because I'm actually shit scared for David.
I can just see him drifting along the ropes with a half arsed glove against his face thinking ''all I have to do is fidgit a bit and fuck him off'', feeling nice and safe about to move out of harms way and getting absolutely destroyed, chin blazing up to the sky, knees sucked towards the ground, KTFO

[Memphis]

LOL Memf, where's he animated Giff then?! lol

No seriously, the horse is officially dead and beat I know... but to be fair, Austin was already moving before Wlad planted his feet and then Austin dipped in reaction as Wlad threw the shot (as you've illustrated).

The point I was making was aimed at the angle. HF was saying the shot (WK's hook) would be impractical from that angle (once Haye had side-stepped the jab to counter with the right hand) and I was showing that a hook was perfectly practical depending on the position of their feet but also that if their feet were not in line then David would probably be to far over to counter anyway. (Baring in mind this is Wladimir Klitschko were talking about).

I admit, it's a whole load of nothing but I guess I'm in this mode because I'm actually shit scared for David.
I can just see him drifting along the ropes with a half arsed glove against his face thinking ''all I have to do is fidgit a bit and fuck him off'', feeling nice and safe about to move out of harms way and getting absolutely destroyed, chin blazing up to the sky, knees sucked towards the ground, KTFO

To be fair I could give a shit about the technicalities, Im just well impressed that we are now using presentations to sell our points, its brilliant

I think one of them is getting horribly embarrased, Im 75 - 25 in favour of Haye being the one looking a plum. Heres hoping Im wrong.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Haye cannot afford to spend too long simply avoiding jabs and setting traps but I'm sure he will find some success (from the middle of the ring to the ropes) by slipping / stepping/ sniping if he chooses to plant his feet at the right time. I've seen Chambers, Brock & Thompson all have varied success at this. The only problem all those guys had was that they weren't fast enough on their feet... Or they just didn't move at all.

Haye, I'm sure, can 'go missing' if he wants to which leads me to believe this can easily be a long fight, because Haye won't be as desperate as it may seem to some.

I think Haye believes that he will simply move a round the ring, flirt with Wladimir's punching range, keep him on edge and just pick his moments in getting to Wladimir.

I think a huge part of Hayes success in putting pressure on Wladimir and finding his chin is by showing that he can reach Wladimir's ribs... Not via bobbing and weaving or constant furious movements but by staying out of range, keeping Wladimir's foot work in check, picking his moments, feint up top and throwing downstairs.

He also has to realistic and assume that no amount of manoeuvring is going to engineer success in combination punching.

One of the reasons why is because nigh on every time someone takes a swing at Wladimir, he skips straight back (in a straight line), regardless of where the attacks come from or where he is situated around the ring. (Meaning this can be used against him to drive him to the ropes).

The other thing he does is strong-arm you two ways, either in a sort of arms out in the air like Hasim Rahman's 'My arms are longer than Lennox Lewis' sort of way which is effective at deflecting incoming punches... Or he simply pushes your head down.

The main thing is remembering that Wladimir always retreats in straight lines so if you can drive him back to the ropes where (if your smart, patient, explosive & accurate) you can probably initiate a more intense & sustained body attack (without bobbing and weaving as mentioned earlier) as Wladimir will instinctively look to do some very rudimentary things, none of which include protecting his body.

This puts Pressure on Wladimir to do some relatively rash things which puts him right where David wants him.

It's all about manoeuvring him to the ropes and putting pressure on him to lash out.
All of which would be far more easier to do in a southpaw stance IMO.

Haye just kept giving ground. Why? He wasn't scared... Even when he got clocked he retained his composure so why always give ground?!

His Tysonesque head-movement was interesting, I wish he'd of doubled up on that... or doubled and then feinted. Just wasn't dynamic enough for an unorthodox fighter.