I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

[Kev]

Oh I agree that had Haye been ko'd in brutal fashion it would have made the fight far more entertaining. I just don't see how such a loss would have been better for David Haye?

It seems people here are arguing they would have respected him more, if like Ricky Hatton he would have given them something to have a good laugh at.

[Majesty]

People must realize that nobody really wants to see boxing nowadays in the heavyweight division. They want to see a slugfest where people get knocked out. It isn't really about boxing pugilism in the heavyweight division. They don't want to see a boxer that can counter punch they want to see constant knockouts. Broken toe or not broken toe. To those that say pull out if you had a broken toe. Had he pulled out a second time from the fight he would be facing a bigger crap storm than he is facing right now.

The fact the heavyweight division is missing "action" that people will flock to any knockout artist and tout them as the future of the division. It is sort of like the heavyweight division after Jack Dempsey. Gene Tunney was a really good boxer, but he was a pure boxer, and that's not what people wanted with the Heavyweight division, they wanted boxing.

In the lower weight classes, defense and counter punching is even touted by some people, but not at heavyweight. It's the stereotype of the heavyweight division that every fight be an exciting blood and guts sort of thing.

For every boxing pugilist that Lennox Lewis was, he was also a knockout artist that finished people when he got them and had thudding power when he used it.

For as boring a heavyweight as people called Lewis, he had very few true stinkers. People can point out the Tua fight but that's about it that really was boring to watch and Tua has a great chin but whenever Lewis felt he was gonna finish someone he took it, even against Briggs who hurt him earlier, Lewis stood in, hands down grinning before knocking him down again. THAT is what people want to see when they think of a heavyweight champion and Lewis was every bit of it.

Contrasting that with Wladimir, people fell in love with the idea of him when they saw him steamrolling competition and knocking them out and being aggressive. But since being knocked out twice, he seemed to take a more backwards approach. What annoys people the most is that he has the ability and the height to dominate everyone just as bad if not worse than Lewis did but he seemed more content with boxing his way to victory, now this would be accepted more, if he hadn't been such an offensive destroying machine early in his career and hyped as the only man that stood a chance against Lennox Lewis. When you are brought up in the media as this destructive offensive force and then you resort to fighting the way he does now, people are still thinking about how Wladimir used to be and feel slighted whenever they watch a fight from him.

Fact is, fans never learn to truly appreciate the entire skillset of a fighter when they are bulldozing people, and are quick to assume and only want to think of seeing them blow competition away. People don't want to remember him for how good of a boxer he is, people want to remember him by memorable knockouts. And when you don't really have the personality that screams to pay attention to him, people want results and knockouts and Wladimir wasn't putting on performances to make up for his lack of media personality.

This is why people and casual boxing fans gravitated to Haye over him. One because of his attitude was he talked a lot, and got people to pay attention, say what you will but the heavyweight division NEEDED David Haye for that time. Because he had a mouth and was delivering knockouts, and like I said, the casual fan doesn't pay attention to anything else. When you watch Sportscenter or highlights which is how most casual fans saw a glimpse of Haye, they saw him nearly knocking out a 7 footer, they saw him stopping John Ruiz, they saw him knocking out Maccarineli regardless of that fight being at cruiserweight. So that's what the casual boxing fan wanted, they expected him to come out all guns blazing, not knowing a think about his style or the way he fights. Us boxing fans that go to boxing forums and stuff like that don't take up the majority of boxing fans, we take up the minority. The most active boxing forums are full of people that have no idea what they are talking about and seem to be like kids. Most people don't watch fights, they don't watch styles, they just go by what ESPN tells them or they flip flop between watching MMA.

But it is how the media also decides to promote the fight. Those of us who actually have watched Haye fight know he likes to stay on the outside and pick his spots, and know he isn't the most active puncher, but he produced knockouts and that's all the media paid attention to and all they wanted to hype.

There's no effort in promoting a boxing match other than to promote both fighters as knockout artists, and people flock to it and act shocked when they watch a fight that turns out that way. When the reality is anyone who paid attention to boxing or the styles of the fighters would have expected no less really.

But that's the thing, today's young fans have a shorter attention span and need something to give it a spark. The truth is, if Wladimir was a talker, he talked crap and did antics, and then went out and dominated people while talking to them in the ring, he would probably get more attention and be more loved. Is it right? No. But that's how it is. You have to know how to sell a fight or be dominant. And you only get away with being humble if you go out there and slug or look for the knockout. If you are anything less in terms of your style, you have to be a character or people won't buy your fights it's that simple, because humble and pure boxer doesn't sell no matter how good you are nowadays.

It's saddening how much of a turn the sport has made in terms of its fans, but it's the future. As sad as it is.

[Pavlik]

People must realize that nobody really wants to see boxing nowadays in the heavyweight division. They want to see a slugfest where people get knocked out. It isn't really about boxing pugilism in the heavyweight division. They don't want to see a boxer that can counter punch they want to see constant knockouts. Broken toe or not broken toe. To those that say pull out if you had a broken toe. Had he pulled out a second time from the fight he would be facing a bigger crap storm than he is facing right now.

The fact the heavyweight division is missing "action" that people will flock to any knockout artist and tout them as the future of the division. It is sort of like the heavyweight division after Jack Dempsey. Gene Tunney was a really good boxer, but he was a pure boxer, and that's not what people wanted with the Heavyweight division, they wanted boxing.

In the lower weight classes, defense and counter punching is even touted by some people, but not at heavyweight. It's the stereotype of the heavyweight division that every fight be an exciting blood and guts sort of thing.

For every boxing pugilist that Lennox Lewis was, he was also a knockout artist that finished people when he got them and had thudding power when he used it.

For as boring a heavyweight as people called Lewis, he had very few true stinkers. People can point out the Tua fight but that's about it that really was boring to watch and Tua has a great chin but whenever Lewis felt he was gonna finish someone he took it, even against Briggs who hurt him earlier, Lewis stood in, hands down grinning before knocking him down again. THAT is what people want to see when they think of a heavyweight champion and Lewis was every bit of it.

Contrasting that with Wladimir, people fell in love with the idea of him when they saw him steamrolling competition and knocking them out and being aggressive. But since being knocked out twice, he seemed to take a more backwards approach. What annoys people the most is that he has the ability and the height to dominate everyone just as bad if not worse than Lewis did but he seemed more content with boxing his way to victory, now this would be accepted more, if he hadn't been such an offensive destroying machine early in his career and hyped as the only man that stood a chance against Lennox Lewis. When you are brought up in the media as this destructive offensive force and then you resort to fighting the way he does now, people are still thinking about how Wladimir used to be and feel slighted whenever they watch a fight from him.

Fact is, fans never learn to truly appreciate the entire skillset of a fighter when they are bulldozing people, and are quick to assume and only want to think of seeing them blow competition away. People don't want to remember him for how good of a boxer he is, people want to remember him by memorable knockouts. And when you don't really have the personality that screams to pay attention to him, people want results and knockouts and Wladimir wasn't putting on performances to make up for his lack of media personality.

This is why people and casual boxing fans gravitated to Haye over him. One because of his attitude was he talked a lot, and got people to pay attention, say what you will but the heavyweight division NEEDED David Haye for that time. Because he had a mouth and was delivering knockouts, and like I said, the casual fan doesn't pay attention to anything else. When you watch Sportscenter or highlights which is how most casual fans saw a glimpse of Haye, they saw him nearly knocking out a 7 footer, they saw him stopping John Ruiz, they saw him knocking out Maccarineli regardless of that fight being at cruiserweight. So that's what the casual boxing fan wanted, they expected him to come out all guns blazing, not knowing a think about his style or the way he fights. Us boxing fans that go to boxing forums and stuff like that don't take up the majority of boxing fans, we take up the minority. The most active boxing forums are full of people that have no idea what they are talking about and seem to be like kids. Most people don't watch fights, they don't watch styles, they just go by what ESPN tells them or they flip flop between watching MMA.

But it is how the media also decides to promote the fight. Those of us who actually have watched Haye fight know he likes to stay on the outside and pick his spots, and know he isn't the most active puncher, but he produced knockouts and that's all the media paid attention to and all they wanted to hype.

There's no effort in promoting a boxing match other than to promote both fighters as knockout artists, and people flock to it and act shocked when they watch a fight that turns out that way. When the reality is anyone who paid attention to boxing or the styles of the fighters would have expected no less really.

But that's the thing, today's young fans have a shorter attention span and need something to give it a spark. The truth is, if Wladimir was a talker, he talked crap and did antics, and then went out and dominated people while talking to them in the ring, he would probably get more attention and be more loved. Is it right? No. But that's how it is. You have to know how to sell a fight or be dominant. And you only get away with being humble if you go out there and slug or look for the knockout. If you are anything less in terms of your style, you have to be a character or people won't buy your fights it's that simple, because humble and pure boxer doesn't sell no matter how good you are nowadays.

It's saddening how much of a turn the sport has made in terms of its fans, but it's the future. As sad as it is.

salute!

[Spicoli]

Dude that was long ...I just watched Bert Cooper vs Ray Mercer and Tommy Morrison vs Joe Hipp...it helped.