The Top Twenty Heavies

[TitoFan]

Personally, I'd place Larry "The Racist" Holmes below the following heavies:

Muhammad Ali - (no need to explain)
Joe Louis - (ditto)
Jack Johnson - (Made a much bigger impact on the sport of boxing than Larry ever did).
Mike Tyson - (ditto)
Lennox Lewis - (Better fighter than Holmes; faced better competition).
George Foreman - (see Ali, Louis)
Joe Frazier - (see Ali, Louis)
Evander Holyfield - (Successfully came up from LHW; hugely successful career as HW).
"Rocky" Marciano - (See Johnson, Tyson)
Jack Dempsey - (See Johnson, Tyson)

To this list, I'm tempted to add Wladimir Klitschko and Sonny Liston. And since I dislike the (cough) self-promoting "Easton Assasin" so much.... I probably would.

So that would make Larry, let's see..... hmm..... 13th?
And he said Marciano wasn't fit to "carry his jock".
Sorry Larry.... it's probably the other way around.

[Master]

Larry Holmes was way better than all with the exception of Ali and the record of Louis. Do not let your prejudice get in the way of acknowledging what a great fighter he was.

[TitoFan]

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

[Master]

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

[TitoFan]

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

Norton was hardly an all-time great. Cooney was an over-hyped "white hope" who vanished as quickly as he appeared. Ali?!?!? You mean: "the dried-up, over-the-hill, should've-been-retired" Ali, who looked like a walking corpse during the fight. Shame on the racist for even taking that fight!

[TitoFan]

I'll grant you this: On "self-promotion", Holmes was Top 3 All-Time.

[Master]

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

Norton was hardly an all-time great. Cooney was an over-hyped "white hope" who vanished as quickly as he appeared. Ali?!?!? You mean: "the dried-up, over-the-hill, should've-been-retired" Ali, who looked like a walking corpse during the fight. Shame on the racist for even taking that fight!

Holmes had to take the Ali fight as Tyson did Holmes. The Norton fight was brilliant and Holmes went through it with an injury, I never said Cooney was great, but the event was big. I am not trying to convert you, just Holmes did all he could do in his era.

[TitoFan]

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

Norton was hardly an all-time great. Cooney was an over-hyped "white hope" who vanished as quickly as he appeared. Ali?!?!? You mean: "the dried-up, over-the-hill, should've-been-retired" Ali, who looked like a walking corpse during the fight. Shame on the racist for even taking that fight!

Holmes had to take the Ali fight as Tyson did Holmes. The Norton fight was brilliant and Holmes went through it with an injury, I never said Cooney was great, but the event was big. I am not trying to convert you, just Holmes did all he could do in his era.

I know, I know..... I realize I'm in the minority, 'cause I see lots of people ranking Holmes highly. But.... I also happen to think there's reason to rank him lower, as I do. I do admit to being highly prejudiced. Man oh man... how I hated that whining, flabby, racist Holmes. I was ecstatic when Tyson KTFO'ed him late in his career. Didn't want him (Holmes) to walk away without a good ass-whooping on his record.

[Mars_ax]

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

I agree with your post Master, except the part about beating Ali, this was a totally shot version of Ali, already showing signs of Pugilistic dementia, who shouldn't have even been in the ring with Holmes.

Doesn't Holmes' 20 HW Championship title defenses, only put him 2nd to Joe Louis at 25?

[Master]

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

I agree with your post Master, except the part about beating Ali, this was a totally shot version of Ali, already showing signs of Pugilistic dementia, who shouldn't have even been in the ring with Holmes.

Doesn't Holmes' 20 HW Championship title defenses, only put him 2nd to Joe Louis at 25?

Yes which is why I have him 3rd on my list which no one has noticed.

[BIG H]

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

I agree with your post Master, except the part about beating Ali, this was a totally shot version of Ali, already showing signs of Pugilistic dementia, who shouldn't have even been in the ring with Holmes.

Doesn't Holmes' 20 HW Championship title defenses, only put him 2nd to Joe Louis at 25?

Yes which is why I have him 3rd on my list which no one has noticed.

2nd or 3rd for Holmes for me. Probably the most likely to beat a prime Ali imo.