Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?

[Mars_ax]

The fight was for the most part a big disappointment, especially after all the pre-fight hype. Most of the members here on Saddoboxing, were predicting the fight would end in a TKO/KO, and only a few were predicting it would go to a decision.

Wlad was his usual, cautious, timid self, jabbing his way to another less than thrilling decision, Haye on the other-hand just flat out sucked ass, hell, I believe Ibragimuffin put up a better effort. Which when you think about it, shouldn't have been any surprise, unless of course you bought into Haye's bullshit before the fight. To be honest, Haye even had me going a bit, and Wlady's chin isn't exactly made out of granite, is it now.

That being said, Haye now goes on my permanent shit list, which means I have zero interest in anything he does during what's left of his boxing career, including a rematch with Wlad, which I hope he's never able to get, or getting KTFO by Vitali.


Anybody got anything to add?

[marbleheadmaui]

I'm just going to try to move past it.

Delvin and Wolak sure helped!

[Dropanuke]

Oh u wanted wlad to come out swinging mindlessly and losing just to make u happy??
Haye has never achieved anything ever!!!!!
Wlad would have crushed jack Johnson and prime mike Tyson and Ali!!!
Hate that!!
Quote me

[AdamGB]

Wrong - There is a middle ground between being timid and stupid.
Wrong - amture medals and being a champ in two weight classes (one undisputed) isn't nothing... It might not be everything but it's sure as shit more than you've ever done. Unless you play the lottery, being working class and ending up with a million in the bank isn't an accident.
Wrong, wrong, wrong - Wlad was timid and negative against a cruiserweight who is apparently garbage in your words... Yet he beats Ali, Tyson and Foreman? fuck I think guys like Frank Bruno would have beaten him, let alone 3 all time greats

Haye was crap on the night, but you need your head checked.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

On Haye:
It's clear now that basing your whole legacy around a 'career defining fight' doesn't always work.
I'm also not sold on the 'He is a Cruiserweight' line. He's somewhere in between.

On Klitschko:
Having so many physical advantages; advantages that factually communicate with more prominence than Haye's mouth ever could, yet choosing to fight so tamely is quite a disappointment.
However given the automaton that he is, I'm sure he won't mind much.

On the fight:
It wasn't so bad. It's juts a matter of interpretation. I wouldn't mind a rematch, I think.

[Nameless]

In one sentence:

Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.


The end.

[Dropanuke]

In one sentence:

Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.


The end.

Spot on!!

Puts everyone to shame.

[ross]

On Haye:
It's clear now that basing your whole legacy around a 'career defining fight' doesn't always work.
I'm also not sold on the 'He is a Cruiserweight' line. He's somewhere in between.

On Klitschko:
Having so many physical advantages; advantages that factually communicate with more prominence than Haye's mouth ever could, yet choosing to fight so tamely is quite a disappointment.
However given the automaton that he is, I'm sure he won't mind much.

On the fight:
It wasn't so bad. It's juts a matter of interpretation. I wouldn't mind a rematch, I think.

I said before the fight that I thought it was going to be boring with both fighters scared to get hit and just get involved.

Haye was never going to be the man to beat the Klitschkos and from the top ten right now there doesnt look to be anyone else until age slows them down.

Haye gets all this praise for his skills but he really doesnt have any defensive skills. This is why he fights at such a distance and rus sideways. He cant step in range because he doesnt know how to roll, bob or weave or even just cover up.

The next heavyweight that has some confidence in his ability will beat Wladamir but there arent any right now. Its not so much that its a bad era its just that no one person is more skilled than the next, its a pretty much level playing field and the Klitschkos are good but there size is whats helping them. Wladimr will still be pushed back clumsily if someone came forward.

[AdamGB]

I agree an thats why I find the idea of him beating a prime tyson hilarious

[Dropanuke]

Wrong: not head checked
Wrong: haye is shit and I don't hate
Right: haye is crap in general by beating weak oppositsion.
Right: wlad is negative
Right: wlad toyed with haye
Right: wlad appeals to the uk market.

And finally u r wrong too.

Know ur role and quote me

[AdamGB]

If you think that Wlad could beat Ali, Tyson and Foreman then you must have more than a broken toe.

If you think that being a once unified, undisputed and two weight world champion millionare isn't anything then you must be a big shot yourself.

If you think Wlad 'toyed with Haye' when really he did just enough to stay out of trouble and get the round then you need glasses.

How can a man who has 30lbs on a fighter who is an apparent 'nobody' as a boxer box so negatively against him... Barely making a dent on him - be held in contention to beat 3 of the best fightets who ever lived?!

The spectator who stepped on Haye's toe during ring walk did more damage to Haye than Wlad was able to. Yet this showed that Wlad would beat Ali/Tyson/Foreman?

Timid Wlad + Crap Haye = proof Wlad can beat history's top heavy weights?!?!

Stop contradicting yourself.

[Rantcatrat]

AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.

In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.

I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).

[AdamGB]

AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.

In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.

I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).

Going on record here - Haye has never been and will never be my favourite fighter. Not even close... I think he has some talent and he's British - so I'll get behind him. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in him... Like his attitude etc. Fuck I never even picked to beat wlad... Just daid it was possible.

He didn't deliver, people can criticise him for that. He had the ability to make a better go of it and didn't.

And I don't think Wlad is awful. I just think that for somebody to think so little of David Haye to see with their own eyes: Wlad come nowhere near to 'smashing' the David Haye the regard so little to then say that Wlad 'smashes a prime Ali and Tyson' is full blown retarded.

He doesn't smash david crap haye... But he does smash Tyson and even Ali in their primes? What a dumb thing to say.

He might not be easy wins for them... But be real... Wlad has shown time and time again that he doesn't 'smash' anybody... Let alone 2 ATGs

If I stick up for the guy it's when people like Dropanuke turn it up to 11 in the saying stupid shit departement.

[Rantcatrat]

AdamGB, I hear ya. Wlad has had a long heavyweight reign though and you got to give him some credit. Like I said, it's not like he's ducked anyone or hasn't fought someone when people thought he should. He made a lot of concessions just to able to get David Haye in the ring. He's beat every single other "best guy" in his division. That speaks volumes in my opinion. He's taken many "0's" from top ten heavyweights. The problem is that he doesn't fight to destroy, he fights to win. Mayweather does the same thing and that can be tedious at times.

Wlad doesn't smash people like say Manny Pacquiao does, but he does always dominate. He'd be a handful for a lot of heavyweights. He'd have trouble with guys with chins who had the balls to force their way inside because they could rely on their chins. Haye wanted so much to do that, but he knows, and we know, he doesn't have the chin to pull that off. Foreman comes to mind as a guy Wlad would have a tough time with. To be fair to dropanuke and others like him, there were a lot of people talking a ton of crap about Wlad before that fight, a lot of people, so he is somewhat warranted in responding the way he has.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.

In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.

I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).

Going on record here - Haye has never been and will never be my favourite fighter. Not even close... I think he has some talent and he's British - so I'll get behind him. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in him... Like his attitude etc. Fuck I never even picked to beat wlad... Just daid it was possible.

He didn't deliver, people can criticise him for that. He had the ability to make a better go of it and didn't.

And I don't think Wlad is awful. I just think that for somebody to think so little of David Haye to see with their own eyes: Wlad come nowhere near to 'smashing' the David Haye the regard so little to then say that Wlad 'smashes a prime Ali and Tyson' is full blown retarded.

He doesn't smash david crap haye... But he does smash Tyson and even Ali in their primes? What a dumb thing to say.

He might not be easy wins for them... But be real... Wlad has shown time and time again that he doesn't 'smash' anybody... Let alone 2 ATGs

If I stick up for the guy it's when people like Dropanuke turn it up to 11 in the saying stupid shit departement.

Also, I can't see how you can say Haye doesn't have a 'Arreola' or a 'Cunningham' on his record... I'm a little bit blown a way by that comment.

1st, lets see if Cunningham is good enough to unify the Cruiserweight division. Second lets see if Arreola is good enough to beat ANYONE in the same class as Valuev, Ruiz or Barrett that haden't already bean beaten by Valuev, Ruiz or Barrett