Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?

[AdamGB]

AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.

In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.

I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).

Going on record here - Haye has never been and will never be my favourite fighter. Not even close... I think he has some talent and he's British - so I'll get behind him. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in him... Like his attitude etc. Fuck I never even picked to beat wlad... Just daid it was possible.

He didn't deliver, people can criticise him for that. He had the ability to make a better go of it and didn't.

And I don't think Wlad is awful. I just think that for somebody to think so little of David Haye to see with their own eyes: Wlad come nowhere near to 'smashing' the David Haye the regard so little to then say that Wlad 'smashes a prime Ali and Tyson' is full blown retarded.

He doesn't smash david crap haye... But he does smash Tyson and even Ali in their primes? What a dumb thing to say.

He might not be easy wins for them... But be real... Wlad has shown time and time again that he doesn't 'smash' anybody... Let alone 2 ATGs

If I stick up for the guy it's when people like Dropanuke turn it up to 11 in the saying stupid shit departement.

[Rantcatrat]

AdamGB, I hear ya. Wlad has had a long heavyweight reign though and you got to give him some credit. Like I said, it's not like he's ducked anyone or hasn't fought someone when people thought he should. He made a lot of concessions just to able to get David Haye in the ring. He's beat every single other "best guy" in his division. That speaks volumes in my opinion. He's taken many "0's" from top ten heavyweights. The problem is that he doesn't fight to destroy, he fights to win. Mayweather does the same thing and that can be tedious at times.

Wlad doesn't smash people like say Manny Pacquiao does, but he does always dominate. He'd be a handful for a lot of heavyweights. He'd have trouble with guys with chins who had the balls to force their way inside because they could rely on their chins. Haye wanted so much to do that, but he knows, and we know, he doesn't have the chin to pull that off. Foreman comes to mind as a guy Wlad would have a tough time with. To be fair to dropanuke and others like him, there were a lot of people talking a ton of crap about Wlad before that fight, a lot of people, so he is somewhat warranted in responding the way he has.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.

In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.

I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).

Going on record here - Haye has never been and will never be my favourite fighter. Not even close... I think he has some talent and he's British - so I'll get behind him. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in him... Like his attitude etc. Fuck I never even picked to beat wlad... Just daid it was possible.

He didn't deliver, people can criticise him for that. He had the ability to make a better go of it and didn't.

And I don't think Wlad is awful. I just think that for somebody to think so little of David Haye to see with their own eyes: Wlad come nowhere near to 'smashing' the David Haye the regard so little to then say that Wlad 'smashes a prime Ali and Tyson' is full blown retarded.

He doesn't smash david crap haye... But he does smash Tyson and even Ali in their primes? What a dumb thing to say.

He might not be easy wins for them... But be real... Wlad has shown time and time again that he doesn't 'smash' anybody... Let alone 2 ATGs

If I stick up for the guy it's when people like Dropanuke turn it up to 11 in the saying stupid shit departement.

Also, I can't see how you can say Haye doesn't have a 'Arreola' or a 'Cunningham' on his record... I'm a little bit blown a way by that comment.

1st, lets see if Cunningham is good enough to unify the Cruiserweight division. Second lets see if Arreola is good enough to beat ANYONE in the same class as Valuev, Ruiz or Barrett that haden't already bean beaten by Valuev, Ruiz or Barrett