Fighters that you (controversially) think are overrated

[ICB]

Carlos Zarate

[BIG H]

Carlos Zarate

Interesting one that. I guess most people would have him as the greatest Bantam of all time?? Maybe Olivires?

[X]

Bernard Hopkins ....... made loads of defences against the weakest middleweight era I have ever seen, comprehensively outboxed by the flawed Roy Jones, matured into a spoiling, scuffling type fighter who actually is never in good fights !!! Recent 'great achievements' have been against true second raters. Light Heavy world champion at an impressive age allright, but he wasnt exactly beating Archie Moore or Bob Foster etc

[gest12645]

Great pointing out Dempsey. Also Patterson.
And Jack Johnson, or Joe Louis are ovarated in terms of comparing them to Hwy's such as Lewis, Holmes, Ali. They wouldn't stand a chance against modern Heavyweights- even the Klitschkos

[marbleheadmaui]

Great pointing out Dempsey. Also Patterson.
And Jack Johnson, or Joe Louis are ovarated in terms of comparing them to Hwy's such as Lewis, Holmes, Ali. They wouldn't stand a chance against modern Heavyweights- even the Klitschkos

LOL, and what in God's name do you base THAT on?

[marbleheadmaui]

I want to vomit anytime Mr. Ronald Wright and the words great or HOF collide in the same sentence.

It depends how one rates Tyson. If one tries to argue a top ten heavy? Then yeah that's overrating him.

There are two middles EVERYONE has in their top 5-6 middles I just don't get. Marcel Cerdan and Stanley Ketchell. I don't mean they weren't great. But THAT great? Really?

Oscar, I'll bet I haven him lower than many. Big draw, but only a very good fighter.

Then there is my pet group I want pulled from the IBHOF. McGuigan, Norris, Canzales, Mitchell, Graham, Ingo and poor Laszlo Papp.

[generalbulldog]

Mike Tyson is the only guy on my list.

[ICB]

I want to vomit anytime Mr. Ronald Wright and the words great or HOF collide in the same sentence.

It depends how one rates Tyson. If one tries to argue a top ten heavy? Then yeah that's overrating him.

There are two middles EVERYONE has in their top 5-6 middles I just don't get. Marcel Cerdan and Stanley Ketchell. I don't mean they weren't great. But THAT great? Really?

Oscar, I'll bet I haven him lower than many. Big draw, but only a very good fighter.

Then there is my pet group I want pulled from the IBHOF. McGuigan, Norris, Canzales, Mitchell, Graham, Ingo and poor Laszlo Papp.

Orlando Canizales was an amazing fighter, no idea why you would want him pulled from IBHOF.

[MadboyHandsomeJR]

Ricky hatton, that punch and hold bastard.

[BIG H]

Ricky hatton, that punch and hold bastard.

Congratulations you watched the Tszyu fight. Now go and watch some others! He used that tactic to beat a superior boxer and fair play it worked. He tried and failed against PBF. But generally he was pretty much 'on the move' all the time, not so much with the holidng

[johnsebastianmiran]

Obviously Paul williams and Kahn who shouldn't be champ. The one that really pissed me off all those years was John Ruiz for his clutching holding exasperating time consuming fights. He had no talent and he hugged fighters more than I ever hugged my mother in twelve round totures of boredom but maybe he was good to his friends butErnie Terrell must have been his mentor. Sonny Liston was a murderous puncher and mean individual but he was pissed after their bout he hated Terrell. Micheaql Dokes the heavyweight was another accident waiting to happen because even though e won the first fight with Mike Weaver to become one of the worst alphabet champs, Mike Weaver won the second fight and Dokes was given a draw, an early Christmas gift. I have more but the list is too long and I won't take prisoners this is just a taste of the last thirty years.

[ICB]

Carlos Zarate

Interesting one that. I guess most people would have him as the greatest Bantam of all time?? Maybe Olivires?

To be honest im not all that knowledgable on the lower weightclasses, but you could also make an argument Ruben Olivares was overrated aswell. He had some great performances against Rose, Castillo, but he was beaten in his prime at his prime weight against Rafael Herrera twice, and did only make 6 title defenses at Bantamweight.

And he wasn't all that successful moving up at Featherweight either, i think other Bantamweights like Jeff Chander get overlooked.

[marbleheadmaui]

Carlos Zarate

Interesting one that. I guess most people would have him as the greatest Bantam of all time?? Maybe Olivires?

To be honest im not all that knowledgable on the lower weightclasses, but you could also make an argument Ruben Olivares was overrated aswell. He had some great performances against Rose, Castillo, but he was beaten in his prime at his prime weight against Rafael Herrera twice, and did only make 6 title defenses at Bantamweight.

And he wasn't all that successful moving up at Featherweight either, i think other Bantamweights like Jeff Chander get overlooked.

I think one thing that matters in looking at Olivares is that it is like looking at a 1970's heavyweight. What I mean is Olivares fought in the best era for bantams the sport has ever seen (in my view anyway). From about 1965-1972 or so that division had so many exceptional fighters it isn't funny. Being the top dog in THAT era at 118 is like being the top welter of the late 1970's or the top lightweight of post WWI. It's an extraordinary feat.

I've come a long way on Zarate. Five years ago I didn't get him. But I've done a lot of work since and I am persuaded he is one of the greats.

[ICB]

Carlos Zarate

Interesting one that. I guess most people would have him as the greatest Bantam of all time?? Maybe Olivires?

To be honest im not all that knowledgable on the lower weightclasses, but you could also make an argument Ruben Olivares was overrated aswell. He had some great performances against Rose, Castillo, but he was beaten in his prime at his prime weight against Rafael Herrera twice, and did only make 6 title defenses at Bantamweight.

And he wasn't all that successful moving up at Featherweight either, i think other Bantamweights like Jeff Chander get overlooked.

I think one thing that matters in looking at Olivares is that it is like looking at a 1970's heavyweight. What I mean is Olivares fought in the best era for bantams the sport has ever seen (in my view anyway). From about 1965-1972 or so that division had so many exceptional fighters it isn't funny. Being the top dog in THAT era at 118 is like being the top welter of the late 1970's or the top lightweight of post WWI. It's an extraordinary feat.

He was very good fighter but i do think he gets overrated, he wasn't at the top long enough. And as i said he was beaten twice at his prime weight in his prime, i know he liked party lifestyle but that's he's fault, you got to stay dedicated to stay at the top see Hagler, Hopkins, two great fighters who were never out of shape.

[marbleheadmaui]

Carlos Zarate

Interesting one that. I guess most people would have him as the greatest Bantam of all time?? Maybe Olivires?

To be honest im not all that knowledgable on the lower weightclasses, but you could also make an argument Ruben Olivares was overrated aswell. He had some great performances against Rose, Castillo, but he was beaten in his prime at his prime weight against Rafael Herrera twice, and did only make 6 title defenses at Bantamweight.

And he wasn't all that successful moving up at Featherweight either, i think other Bantamweights like Jeff Chander get overlooked.

I think one thing that matters in looking at Olivares is that it is like looking at a 1970's heavyweight. What I mean is Olivares fought in the best era for bantams the sport has ever seen (in my view anyway). From about 1965-1972 or so that division had so many exceptional fighters it isn't funny. Being the top dog in THAT era at 118 is like being the top welter of the late 1970's or the top lightweight of post WWI. It's an extraordinary feat.

He was very good fighter but i do think he gets overrated, he wasn't at the top long enough. And as i said he was beaten twice at his prime weight in his prime, i know he liked party lifestyle but that's he's fault, you got to stay dedicated to stay at the top see Hagler, Hopkins, two great fighters who were never out of shape.

No question the losses to Chucho and Hererra count (and Olivares' partying means zilch as you note). But those were NOT a couple of stiffs either. Rafael beat guys like Rodolfo Martinez, Chucho and Venice Bhorkasor. Three terriffic 118's. Chucho beat Pimintel and Medel and Caraballo. Three other terriffic 118's. Like I said that division was absolutely loaded in those years.

Saying he wasn't at the top long enough in that era is a little like saying Ali wasn't at the top long enough at heavy in the 1970's. About three years IIRC for each guy, right?

And how long was Jeff Chandler (a GREAT fighter) on top anyway? Wasn't his run three years or so also?

Chandler-Olivares. THAT would have been something.