Fighters that you (controversially) think are overrated

[eagle]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Look I'm a great Kostya respector but you REALLY need this question answered? OK.

Ross-An undisputed champion in three divisions. Five wins over HOFers. Over twenty five wins over ranked fighters. Over 70 wins.

Canzoneri-An undisputed champion in three divisions and fought a draw for the undisputed champion in a fourth division. Defeated over 30 ranked fighters, Defeated HOFers over ten times. Over 130 wins

Benitez-The youngest lineal champion in history. Three wins over HOFers. Ten wins over ranked fighters.

Cervantes-Beat HOFers on two occasions, had a draw with one on a third, defeated ranked fighters over ten times. Over 90 wins.

Pryor-Defeated HOFers on three occasions. A dozen wins over ranked guys. Over 30 wins.

Kostya-One win over a HOFer, a dozen wins over ranked guys and over thirty wins.

What exactly are you trying to say? Pryor and Tszyu have very similiar records. Lots of dominant defenses against ranked opponents yet never got their shot at the big guys. Kostya had more defenses, but one more loss. Kostya unified too. Why shouldnt Kostya be named with Pryor?

Its very hard to compare records with the earlier guys, they had a lot more fights, more wins, more losses. Cervantes title run was also similiar to Tszyu. Not a lot of big names. I never stated that Tszyu was better than all those games but to say he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these guys is ridiculous. Your post really confirmed this more than proving me wrong.

[laughing] Yeah because THREE division undisputed champions is the same as one, 70+ wins is the same as 30, 25 wins over ranked fighters is the same as a dozen and 3+ wins over HOFers is the same as one.

Kostya is deficient to EVERY ONE of those guys in a major category and superior in nearly none isn't he?

Again, I have great respect for Kostya, but putting him in the above's league seems overrating him to me.

It's no insult to not be as accomplished as men like this. It really isn't.

Again I bring up Pryor. He did not unify the belts so Pryor is deficient in that respect. Tszyu had 5 more defenses than Pryor. Pryor is deficient there. I dunno who would have won between the 2 and i honestly think Aaron may have cos his style would have troubled Tszyu. But to say Kostya does not deserve to be mentioned with him is ludicrous. Its a similar argument with Calvacante. Similiar amount of title defenses as Tszyu. A lot more fights, a lot more losses. Never unified the belts but had one or two more notable wins. There are arguments for and against Calvacante and Tszyu, but to say Kostya shouldnt be mentioned with him again is stupid.
As for the whole 70 wins is better than 30, thats just stupid. Kostya fought 1 person with a losing record. The older guys fought dozens. Tszyu had fought 2 ex champs by his tenth fight, and won a title by his 14th. To show how ridiculous that argument is, Tszyu had more title fights than Ross but about 50 fewer fights. If its all about wins i guess u could add Tszyus amateur career of 259-11.

[marbleheadmaui]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Look I'm a great Kostya respector but you REALLY need this question answered? OK.

Ross-An undisputed champion in three divisions. Five wins over HOFers. Over twenty five wins over ranked fighters. Over 70 wins.

Canzoneri-An undisputed champion in three divisions and fought a draw for the undisputed champion in a fourth division. Defeated over 30 ranked fighters, Defeated HOFers over ten times. Over 130 wins

Benitez-The youngest lineal champion in history. Three wins over HOFers. Ten wins over ranked fighters.

Cervantes-Beat HOFers on two occasions, had a draw with one on a third, defeated ranked fighters over ten times. Over 90 wins.

Pryor-Defeated HOFers on three occasions. A dozen wins over ranked guys. Over 30 wins.

Kostya-One win over a HOFer, a dozen wins over ranked guys and over thirty wins.

What exactly are you trying to say? Pryor and Tszyu have very similiar records. Lots of dominant defenses against ranked opponents yet never got their shot at the big guys. Kostya had more defenses, but one more loss. Kostya unified too. Why shouldnt Kostya be named with Pryor?

Its very hard to compare records with the earlier guys, they had a lot more fights, more wins, more losses. Cervantes title run was also similiar to Tszyu. Not a lot of big names. I never stated that Tszyu was better than all those games but to say he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these guys is ridiculous. Your post really confirmed this more than proving me wrong.

[laughing] Yeah because THREE division undisputed champions is the same as one, 70+ wins is the same as 30, 25 wins over ranked fighters is the same as a dozen and 3+ wins over HOFers is the same as one.

Kostya is deficient to EVERY ONE of those guys in a major category and superior in nearly none isn't he?

Again, I have great respect for Kostya, but putting him in the above's league seems overrating him to me.

It's no insult to not be as accomplished as men like this. It really isn't.

Again I bring up Pryor. He did not unify the belts so Pryor is deficient in that respect. Tszyu had 5 more defenses than Pryor. Pryor is deficient there. I dunno who would have won between the 2 and i honestly think Aaron may have cos his style would have troubled Tszyu. But to say Kostya does not deserve to be mentioned with him is ludicrous. Its a similar argument with Calvacante. Similiar amount of title defenses as Tszyu. A lot more fights, a lot more losses. Never unified the belts but had one or two more notable wins. There are arguments for and against Calvacante and Tszyu, but to say Kostya shouldnt be mentioned with him again is stupid.
As for the whole 70 wins is better than 30, thats just stupid. Kostya fought 1 person with a losing record. The older guys fought dozens. Tszyu had fought 2 ex champs by his tenth fight, and won a title by his 14th. To show how ridiculous that argument is, Tszyu had more title fights than Ross but about 50 fewer fights. If its all about wins i guess u could add Tszyus amateur career of 259-11.

UNIFYING belts means NOTHING. Pryor was the LINEAL champion! Don't confuse straps with true championships.

Who the hell is Calcavante

[eagle]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Look I'm a great Kostya respector but you REALLY need this question answered? OK.

Ross-An undisputed champion in three divisions. Five wins over HOFers. Over twenty five wins over ranked fighters. Over 70 wins.

Canzoneri-An undisputed champion in three divisions and fought a draw for the undisputed champion in a fourth division. Defeated over 30 ranked fighters, Defeated HOFers over ten times. Over 130 wins

Benitez-The youngest lineal champion in history. Three wins over HOFers. Ten wins over ranked fighters.

Cervantes-Beat HOFers on two occasions, had a draw with one on a third, defeated ranked fighters over ten times. Over 90 wins.

Pryor-Defeated HOFers on three occasions. A dozen wins over ranked guys. Over 30 wins.

Kostya-One win over a HOFer, a dozen wins over ranked guys and over thirty wins.

What exactly are you trying to say? Pryor and Tszyu have very similiar records. Lots of dominant defenses against ranked opponents yet never got their shot at the big guys. Kostya had more defenses, but one more loss. Kostya unified too. Why shouldnt Kostya be named with Pryor?

Its very hard to compare records with the earlier guys, they had a lot more fights, more wins, more losses. Cervantes title run was also similiar to Tszyu. Not a lot of big names. I never stated that Tszyu was better than all those games but to say he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these guys is ridiculous. Your post really confirmed this more than proving me wrong.

[laughing] Yeah because THREE division undisputed champions is the same as one, 70+ wins is the same as 30, 25 wins over ranked fighters is the same as a dozen and 3+ wins over HOFers is the same as one.

Kostya is deficient to EVERY ONE of those guys in a major category and superior in nearly none isn't he?

Again, I have great respect for Kostya, but putting him in the above's league seems overrating him to me.

It's no insult to not be as accomplished as men like this. It really isn't.

Again I bring up Pryor. He did not unify the belts so Pryor is deficient in that respect. Tszyu had 5 more defenses than Pryor. Pryor is deficient there. I dunno who would have won between the 2 and i honestly think Aaron may have cos his style would have troubled Tszyu. But to say Kostya does not deserve to be mentioned with him is ludicrous. Its a similar argument with Calvacante. Similiar amount of title defenses as Tszyu. A lot more fights, a lot more losses. Never unified the belts but had one or two more notable wins. There are arguments for and against Calvacante and Tszyu, but to say Kostya shouldnt be mentioned with him again is stupid.
As for the whole 70 wins is better than 30, thats just stupid. Kostya fought 1 person with a losing record. The older guys fought dozens. Tszyu had fought 2 ex champs by his tenth fight, and won a title by his 14th. To show how ridiculous that argument is, Tszyu had more title fights than Ross but about 50 fewer fights. If its all about wins i guess u could add Tszyus amateur career of 259-11.

UNIFYING belts means NOTHING. Pryor was the LINEAL champion! Don't confuse straps with true championships.

Who the hell is Calcavante

Sorry i meant Cervantes. Unifying belts means nothing? Are you serious? Nothing? Correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't unifying the belts make you lineal champ? You are a very hard man to please if yout think unifying a division means nothing. another piss weak and stupid argument. My point is to say Kostya doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as these guys is ridiculous. Sure you may be able to argue that they are all better, but there are many cases to be made that suggest Kostya was better than some of them as well. He deserves to be mentioned with and compared to all of them.

[BIG H]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Look I'm a great Kostya respector but you REALLY need this question answered? OK.

Ross-An undisputed champion in three divisions. Five wins over HOFers. Over twenty five wins over ranked fighters. Over 70 wins.

Canzoneri-An undisputed champion in three divisions and fought a draw for the undisputed champion in a fourth division. Defeated over 30 ranked fighters, Defeated HOFers over ten times. Over 130 wins

Benitez-The youngest lineal champion in history. Three wins over HOFers. Ten wins over ranked fighters.

Cervantes-Beat HOFers on two occasions, had a draw with one on a third, defeated ranked fighters over ten times. Over 90 wins.

Pryor-Defeated HOFers on three occasions. A dozen wins over ranked guys. Over 30 wins.

Kostya-One win over a HOFer, a dozen wins over ranked guys and over thirty wins.

What exactly are you trying to say? Pryor and Tszyu have very similiar records. Lots of dominant defenses against ranked opponents yet never got their shot at the big guys. Kostya had more defenses, but one more loss. Kostya unified too. Why shouldnt Kostya be named with Pryor?

Its very hard to compare records with the earlier guys, they had a lot more fights, more wins, more losses. Cervantes title run was also similiar to Tszyu. Not a lot of big names. I never stated that Tszyu was better than all those games but to say he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these guys is ridiculous. Your post really confirmed this more than proving me wrong.

[laughing] Yeah because THREE division undisputed champions is the same as one, 70+ wins is the same as 30, 25 wins over ranked fighters is the same as a dozen and 3+ wins over HOFers is the same as one.

Kostya is deficient to EVERY ONE of those guys in a major category and superior in nearly none isn't he?

Again, I have great respect for Kostya, but putting him in the above's league seems overrating him to me.

It's no insult to not be as accomplished as men like this. It really isn't.

Again I bring up Pryor. He did not unify the belts so Pryor is deficient in that respect. Tszyu had 5 more defenses than Pryor. Pryor is deficient there. I dunno who would have won between the 2 and i honestly think Aaron may have cos his style would have troubled Tszyu. But to say Kostya does not deserve to be mentioned with him is ludicrous. Its a similar argument with Calvacante. Similiar amount of title defenses as Tszyu. A lot more fights, a lot more losses. Never unified the belts but had one or two more notable wins. There are arguments for and against Calvacante and Tszyu, but to say Kostya shouldnt be mentioned with him again is stupid.
As for the whole 70 wins is better than 30, thats just stupid. Kostya fought 1 person with a losing record. The older guys fought dozens. Tszyu had fought 2 ex champs by his tenth fight, and won a title by his 14th. To show how ridiculous that argument is, Tszyu had more title fights than Ross but about 50 fewer fights. If its all about wins i guess u could add Tszyus amateur career of 259-11.

UNIFYING belts means NOTHING. Pryor was the LINEAL champion! Don't confuse straps with true championships.

Who the hell is Calcavante

Sorry i meant Cervantes. Unifying belts means nothing? Are you serious? Nothing? Correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't unifying the belts make you lineal champ? You are a very hard man to please if yout think unifying a division means nothing. another piss weak and stupid argument.

By lineal champ, he means 'beating the man that beat the man' Winning all the belts wouldn't necessarily make this the case. i.e Lewis didn't become champion until he beat Biggs, Tyson wasn't champion until he beat Spinks etc. In terms of having any bearing on how good a fighter is, I agree that it doesn't necessarily have any bearing. I mean Shannon Briggs being lineal champ in the 1st place for example.

[eagle]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Look I'm a great Kostya respector but you REALLY need this question answered? OK.

Ross-An undisputed champion in three divisions. Five wins over HOFers. Over twenty five wins over ranked fighters. Over 70 wins.

Canzoneri-An undisputed champion in three divisions and fought a draw for the undisputed champion in a fourth division. Defeated over 30 ranked fighters, Defeated HOFers over ten times. Over 130 wins

Benitez-The youngest lineal champion in history. Three wins over HOFers. Ten wins over ranked fighters.

Cervantes-Beat HOFers on two occasions, had a draw with one on a third, defeated ranked fighters over ten times. Over 90 wins.

Pryor-Defeated HOFers on three occasions. A dozen wins over ranked guys. Over 30 wins.

Kostya-One win over a HOFer, a dozen wins over ranked guys and over thirty wins.

What exactly are you trying to say? Pryor and Tszyu have very similiar records. Lots of dominant defenses against ranked opponents yet never got their shot at the big guys. Kostya had more defenses, but one more loss. Kostya unified too. Why shouldnt Kostya be named with Pryor?

Its very hard to compare records with the earlier guys, they had a lot more fights, more wins, more losses. Cervantes title run was also similiar to Tszyu. Not a lot of big names. I never stated that Tszyu was better than all those games but to say he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these guys is ridiculous. Your post really confirmed this more than proving me wrong.

[laughing] Yeah because THREE division undisputed champions is the same as one, 70+ wins is the same as 30, 25 wins over ranked fighters is the same as a dozen and 3+ wins over HOFers is the same as one.

Kostya is deficient to EVERY ONE of those guys in a major category and superior in nearly none isn't he?

Again, I have great respect for Kostya, but putting him in the above's league seems overrating him to me.

It's no insult to not be as accomplished as men like this. It really isn't.

Again I bring up Pryor. He did not unify the belts so Pryor is deficient in that respect. Tszyu had 5 more defenses than Pryor. Pryor is deficient there. I dunno who would have won between the 2 and i honestly think Aaron may have cos his style would have troubled Tszyu. But to say Kostya does not deserve to be mentioned with him is ludicrous. Its a similar argument with Calvacante. Similiar amount of title defenses as Tszyu. A lot more fights, a lot more losses. Never unified the belts but had one or two more notable wins. There are arguments for and against Calvacante and Tszyu, but to say Kostya shouldnt be mentioned with him again is stupid.
As for the whole 70 wins is better than 30, thats just stupid. Kostya fought 1 person with a losing record. The older guys fought dozens. Tszyu had fought 2 ex champs by his tenth fight, and won a title by his 14th. To show how ridiculous that argument is, Tszyu had more title fights than Ross but about 50 fewer fights. If its all about wins i guess u could add Tszyus amateur career of 259-11.

UNIFYING belts means NOTHING. Pryor was the LINEAL champion! Don't confuse straps with true championships.

Who the hell is Calcavante

Sorry i meant Cervantes. Unifying belts means nothing? Are you serious? Nothing? Correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't unifying the belts make you lineal champ? You are a very hard man to please if yout think unifying a division means nothing. another piss weak and stupid argument.

By lineal champ, he means 'beating the man that beat the man' Winning all the belts wouldn't necessarily make this the case. i.e Lewis didn't become champion until he beat Biggs, Tyson wasn't champion until he beat Spinks etc. In terms of having any bearing on how good a fighter is, I agree that it doesn't necessarily have any bearing. I mean Shannon Briggs being lineal champ in the 1st place for example.

I agree being lineal champ is important. But surely its a ridiculous statement to say unifying means nothing. He makes it sound like anybody could do it. If you have beaten all the other champs in your division its hard to do much more at that weightclass.

[BIG H]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Look I'm a great Kostya respector but you REALLY need this question answered? OK.

Ross-An undisputed champion in three divisions. Five wins over HOFers. Over twenty five wins over ranked fighters. Over 70 wins.

Canzoneri-An undisputed champion in three divisions and fought a draw for the undisputed champion in a fourth division. Defeated over 30 ranked fighters, Defeated HOFers over ten times. Over 130 wins

Benitez-The youngest lineal champion in history. Three wins over HOFers. Ten wins over ranked fighters.

Cervantes-Beat HOFers on two occasions, had a draw with one on a third, defeated ranked fighters over ten times. Over 90 wins.

Pryor-Defeated HOFers on three occasions. A dozen wins over ranked guys. Over 30 wins.

Kostya-One win over a HOFer, a dozen wins over ranked guys and over thirty wins.

What exactly are you trying to say? Pryor and Tszyu have very similiar records. Lots of dominant defenses against ranked opponents yet never got their shot at the big guys. Kostya had more defenses, but one more loss. Kostya unified too. Why shouldnt Kostya be named with Pryor?

Its very hard to compare records with the earlier guys, they had a lot more fights, more wins, more losses. Cervantes title run was also similiar to Tszyu. Not a lot of big names. I never stated that Tszyu was better than all those games but to say he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these guys is ridiculous. Your post really confirmed this more than proving me wrong.

[laughing] Yeah because THREE division undisputed champions is the same as one, 70+ wins is the same as 30, 25 wins over ranked fighters is the same as a dozen and 3+ wins over HOFers is the same as one.

Kostya is deficient to EVERY ONE of those guys in a major category and superior in nearly none isn't he?

Again, I have great respect for Kostya, but putting him in the above's league seems overrating him to me.

It's no insult to not be as accomplished as men like this. It really isn't.

Again I bring up Pryor. He did not unify the belts so Pryor is deficient in that respect. Tszyu had 5 more defenses than Pryor. Pryor is deficient there. I dunno who would have won between the 2 and i honestly think Aaron may have cos his style would have troubled Tszyu. But to say Kostya does not deserve to be mentioned with him is ludicrous. Its a similar argument with Calvacante. Similiar amount of title defenses as Tszyu. A lot more fights, a lot more losses. Never unified the belts but had one or two more notable wins. There are arguments for and against Calvacante and Tszyu, but to say Kostya shouldnt be mentioned with him again is stupid.
As for the whole 70 wins is better than 30, thats just stupid. Kostya fought 1 person with a losing record. The older guys fought dozens. Tszyu had fought 2 ex champs by his tenth fight, and won a title by his 14th. To show how ridiculous that argument is, Tszyu had more title fights than Ross but about 50 fewer fights. If its all about wins i guess u could add Tszyus amateur career of 259-11.

UNIFYING belts means NOTHING. Pryor was the LINEAL champion! Don't confuse straps with true championships.

Who the hell is Calcavante

Sorry i meant Cervantes. Unifying belts means nothing? Are you serious? Nothing? Correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't unifying the belts make you lineal champ? You are a very hard man to please if yout think unifying a division means nothing. another piss weak and stupid argument.

By lineal champ, he means 'beating the man that beat the man' Winning all the belts wouldn't necessarily make this the case. i.e Lewis didn't become champion until he beat Biggs, Tyson wasn't champion until he beat Spinks etc. In terms of having any bearing on how good a fighter is, I agree that it doesn't necessarily have any bearing. I mean Shannon Briggs being lineal champ in the 1st place for example.

I agree being lineal champ is important. But surely its a ridiculous statement to say unifying means nothing. He makes it sound like anybody could do it. If you have beaten all the other champs in your division its hard to do much more at that weightclass.

Agreed

[Spicoli]

Scroll through and try to read that string on a phone my eyes are bleeding

[marbleheadmaui]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Look I'm a great Kostya respector but you REALLY need this question answered? OK.

Ross-An undisputed champion in three divisions. Five wins over HOFers. Over twenty five wins over ranked fighters. Over 70 wins.

Canzoneri-An undisputed champion in three divisions and fought a draw for the undisputed champion in a fourth division. Defeated over 30 ranked fighters, Defeated HOFers over ten times. Over 130 wins

Benitez-The youngest lineal champion in history. Three wins over HOFers. Ten wins over ranked fighters.

Cervantes-Beat HOFers on two occasions, had a draw with one on a third, defeated ranked fighters over ten times. Over 90 wins.

Pryor-Defeated HOFers on three occasions. A dozen wins over ranked guys. Over 30 wins.

Kostya-One win over a HOFer, a dozen wins over ranked guys and over thirty wins.

What exactly are you trying to say? Pryor and Tszyu have very similiar records. Lots of dominant defenses against ranked opponents yet never got their shot at the big guys. Kostya had more defenses, but one more loss. Kostya unified too. Why shouldnt Kostya be named with Pryor?

Its very hard to compare records with the earlier guys, they had a lot more fights, more wins, more losses. Cervantes title run was also similiar to Tszyu. Not a lot of big names. I never stated that Tszyu was better than all those games but to say he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these guys is ridiculous. Your post really confirmed this more than proving me wrong.

[laughing] Yeah because THREE division undisputed champions is the same as one, 70+ wins is the same as 30, 25 wins over ranked fighters is the same as a dozen and 3+ wins over HOFers is the same as one.

Kostya is deficient to EVERY ONE of those guys in a major category and superior in nearly none isn't he?

Again, I have great respect for Kostya, but putting him in the above's league seems overrating him to me.

It's no insult to not be as accomplished as men like this. It really isn't.

Again I bring up Pryor. He did not unify the belts so Pryor is deficient in that respect. Tszyu had 5 more defenses than Pryor. Pryor is deficient there. I dunno who would have won between the 2 and i honestly think Aaron may have cos his style would have troubled Tszyu. But to say Kostya does not deserve to be mentioned with him is ludicrous. Its a similar argument with Calvacante. Similiar amount of title defenses as Tszyu. A lot more fights, a lot more losses. Never unified the belts but had one or two more notable wins. There are arguments for and against Calvacante and Tszyu, but to say Kostya shouldnt be mentioned with him again is stupid.
As for the whole 70 wins is better than 30, thats just stupid. Kostya fought 1 person with a losing record. The older guys fought dozens. Tszyu had fought 2 ex champs by his tenth fight, and won a title by his 14th. To show how ridiculous that argument is, Tszyu had more title fights than Ross but about 50 fewer fights. If its all about wins i guess u could add Tszyus amateur career of 259-11.

UNIFYING belts means NOTHING. Pryor was the LINEAL champion! Don't confuse straps with true championships.

Who the hell is Calcavante

Sorry i meant Cervantes. Unifying belts means nothing? Are you serious? Nothing? Correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't unifying the belts make you lineal champ? You are a very hard man to please if yout think unifying a division means nothing. another piss weak and stupid argument.

By lineal champ, he means 'beating the man that beat the man' Winning all the belts wouldn't necessarily make this the case. i.e Lewis didn't become champion until he beat Biggs, Tyson wasn't champion until he beat Spinks etc. In terms of having any bearing on how good a fighter is, I agree that it doesn't necessarily have any bearing. I mean Shannon Briggs being lineal champ in the 1st place for example.

I agree being lineal champ is important. But surely its a ridiculous statement to say unifying means nothing. He makes it sound like anybody could do it. If you have beaten all the other champs in your division its hard to do much more at that weightclass.

It DOESN'T mean anything. Why? because it is NOT a function of just what happenes in the ring. The WBA/WBC etc basically pick and choose champions and then strip them at will.

ANYTHING driven by the alphabet gangs doesn't mean anything. Why? Their process is corrupt!

[eagle]

Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.

I'll start with

Kostya Tszyu

Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!

Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.

I think this is shit. First of all who really overrates him? How is he overrated? He was probably ranked 4 or 5 P4P at his absolute best which was fair. His weakness was always pressure guys like Hatton, Philips and Hector Lopez. He blitzed speed guys tho. Gotta keep in mind that almost all his major fights were in foreign countries. To say he shouldnt be up there with Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri is stupid. What did they do that was so much more impressive? Who ever said he should be named with PBF and Pac, they are clearly superior.
15 or so title defenses, won all the major belts, more than half career was title fights. 75% KO percentage.

What a urprise another Aussie doesn't agree

It aint 'Shit' mate, it's an opinion that I have.

Well back up your opinion. Who overrates him? Why are Pryor, Ross, Benitez, Cervantes and Canzoneri so much better than Tszyu that he shouldnt be mentioned with them. Who overrates him? Its all well and good to have an opinion but atleast back it up. Did I say anything in my post that was false?

Look I'm a great Kostya respector but you REALLY need this question answered? OK.

Ross-An undisputed champion in three divisions. Five wins over HOFers. Over twenty five wins over ranked fighters. Over 70 wins.

Canzoneri-An undisputed champion in three divisions and fought a draw for the undisputed champion in a fourth division. Defeated over 30 ranked fighters, Defeated HOFers over ten times. Over 130 wins

Benitez-The youngest lineal champion in history. Three wins over HOFers. Ten wins over ranked fighters.

Cervantes-Beat HOFers on two occasions, had a draw with one on a third, defeated ranked fighters over ten times. Over 90 wins.

Pryor-Defeated HOFers on three occasions. A dozen wins over ranked guys. Over 30 wins.

Kostya-One win over a HOFer, a dozen wins over ranked guys and over thirty wins.

What exactly are you trying to say? Pryor and Tszyu have very similiar records. Lots of dominant defenses against ranked opponents yet never got their shot at the big guys. Kostya had more defenses, but one more loss. Kostya unified too. Why shouldnt Kostya be named with Pryor?

Its very hard to compare records with the earlier guys, they had a lot more fights, more wins, more losses. Cervantes title run was also similiar to Tszyu. Not a lot of big names. I never stated that Tszyu was better than all those games but to say he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these guys is ridiculous. Your post really confirmed this more than proving me wrong.

[laughing] Yeah because THREE division undisputed champions is the same as one, 70+ wins is the same as 30, 25 wins over ranked fighters is the same as a dozen and 3+ wins over HOFers is the same as one.

Kostya is deficient to EVERY ONE of those guys in a major category and superior in nearly none isn't he?

Again, I have great respect for Kostya, but putting him in the above's league seems overrating him to me.

It's no insult to not be as accomplished as men like this. It really isn't.

Again I bring up Pryor. He did not unify the belts so Pryor is deficient in that respect. Tszyu had 5 more defenses than Pryor. Pryor is deficient there. I dunno who would have won between the 2 and i honestly think Aaron may have cos his style would have troubled Tszyu. But to say Kostya does not deserve to be mentioned with him is ludicrous. Its a similar argument with Calvacante. Similiar amount of title defenses as Tszyu. A lot more fights, a lot more losses. Never unified the belts but had one or two more notable wins. There are arguments for and against Calvacante and Tszyu, but to say Kostya shouldnt be mentioned with him again is stupid.
As for the whole 70 wins is better than 30, thats just stupid. Kostya fought 1 person with a losing record. The older guys fought dozens. Tszyu had fought 2 ex champs by his tenth fight, and won a title by his 14th. To show how ridiculous that argument is, Tszyu had more title fights than Ross but about 50 fewer fights. If its all about wins i guess u could add Tszyus amateur career of 259-11.

UNIFYING belts means NOTHING. Pryor was the LINEAL champion! Don't confuse straps with true championships.

Who the hell is Calcavante

Sorry i meant Cervantes. Unifying belts means nothing? Are you serious? Nothing? Correct me if i am wrong but wouldn't unifying the belts make you lineal champ? You are a very hard man to please if yout think unifying a division means nothing. another piss weak and stupid argument.

By lineal champ, he means 'beating the man that beat the man' Winning all the belts wouldn't necessarily make this the case. i.e Lewis didn't become champion until he beat Biggs, Tyson wasn't champion until he beat Spinks etc. In terms of having any bearing on how good a fighter is, I agree that it doesn't necessarily have any bearing. I mean Shannon Briggs being lineal champ in the 1st place for example.

I agree being lineal champ is important. But surely its a ridiculous statement to say unifying means nothing. He makes it sound like anybody could do it. If you have beaten all the other champs in your division its hard to do much more at that weightclass.

It DOESN'T mean anything. Why? because it is NOT a function of just what happenes in the ring. The WBA/WBC etc basically pick and choose champions and then strip them at will.

ANYTHING driven by the alphabet gangs doesn't mean anything. Why? Their process is corrupt!

Thats clutching at straws old mate. Beating all the other champs in your division means nothing at all...... Ok I think we are going to have to agree to disagree because its hard to argue against someone who isn't logical.