prime tyson vs prime lewis

[Gandalf]

Foreman took a long layoff, came back and added to his legacy. Yes the job corps he was in there. He did have his troubles with the law though.

Think about it miles you just lost your title, you've been getting robbed by your promoter for ages, you never train anymore, you have been divorced and lost a TON of money....wouldn't you like to "get away" from the situation Hell Tyson even said he liked prison

Yeah, Tyson was on a very bad streak and I get entirely what you are saying. But Im just trying to say that the Tyson that came back after such a long lay off, can not be mentioned in the same breath as the fighter that he once was. He wasnt even close IMO....He came back after Douglas and was quickly winning again and fighting regularly. admittedly the technique was ragged against Ruddock, but he got the job done and came through those slugfests. He didnt get hit and fall at the first sign of danger. He still had some heart at this stage in his career...

Its years later that it all imploded....

[El Kabong]

He could take a beating btu he wouldn't apply himself and he TRIED to end his boxing career vs Botha, Savarese and Holyfield

[Gandalf]

He could take a beating btu he wouldn't apply himself and he TRIED to end his boxing career vs Botha, Savarese and Holyfield

But I fail to make the comparison between that shell and the fighter that became the youngest heavyweight champ in boxing history....

You still fail to draw the distinction between the Tyson that was pre and post jail. I said to you earlier, how many fighters come back off of 3 year+ breaks and enhance their legacy? There are very few. Ali was an exception.

The Tyson that faced each of those fighters was a shadow, a shadow that tried to defy it all in the first Holyfield fight but fell short. Post Holyfield 2 he had endured another 18 month away from the sport. Thats layoffs exceeding 5 years in his career. Now how many fighters come back from that and enhance their legacy? Of course Tyson tried to implode and it all came to the full final realization against Lewis.

Tyson was now pushing 40 and he was fighting once a year. The Williams and McBride fights though a shock to me at the time. On reflection those results have an obviousness about them...

Tyson at the top ended with a 3 year incarcaration.....

[ICB]

foreman hadnt fought since 1977 and comeback in 1987 and still done very well against young boys and won hw title from moorer. larry holmes had lay off in 1985 i think he fought once in fours years when he comeback he gave holyfield fits beat ray mercer and i think should of won decision against mccall quite few boxers can comeback from big lay offs

[Gandalf]

foreman hadnt fought since 1977 and comeback in 1987 and still done very well against young boys and won hw title from moorer. larry holmes had lay off in 1985 i think he fought once in fours years when he comeback he gave holyfield fits beat ray mercer and i think should of won decision against mccall quite few boxers can comeback from big lay offs

Good examples of fighters that have come back after huge lay offs

But I think those 2 fighters are exceptions to the rule....

[ICB]

cc back at ya mate

[ICB]

hey miles what about ray leonard hadnt fought since 1984 when he comeback in 1987 and what does he do win middleweight title from one of best even though some people think hagler got decision leonard still done well

[Gandalf]

hey miles what about ray leonard hadnt fought since 1984 when he comeback in 1987 and what does he do win middleweight title from one of best even though some people think hagler got decision leonard still done well

Again another great example of fighters that do somehow manage to overcome such long layoffs. Leonard was a remarkable fighter IMO. That was a close fight, but I have no issues with the fight going either way to be honest. Leonard got the nod, but again still a remarkable comeback...

Thing is that I think Foreman, Holmes and Leonard are all indeed great boxers...

With Tyson it just seems that though he worked his way back up to a certain level, it got to a point with Holyfield 2 that you knew he just didnt want in any more. The Tyson that lost against Holyfield first time out lacked the skills and qualities that the earlier edition of Tyson posessed in abundence. He really wasnt the same fighter post jail. He lost a lot without ever really feeling the need to regain it again, really.

As a Tyson fan it was a shame, but even though you have pointed out 3 great examples of exceptions to the rule, they really only do apply to only a very few. And they are greats themselves...

[ICB]

agreed

[El Kabong]

Another problem for Tyson is UNLIKE Ali and Foreman he never tried to adapt his style to his changing body...he still tried to just use the power and it caught up with him.

Ali didn't dance as much when he was older, he held more, and he was boring as hell but he got the job done

Foreman used the jab more he stood up, didn't try to fight on the inside and he used the right cross instead of the huge right hook.

Tyson stopped moving his head and stopped throwing punches in bunches...IMO he should have used his handspeed more to become more of a pressure fighter and a punch load fighter instead of a one punch KO artist

[Gandalf]

Another problem for Tyson is UNLIKE Ali and Foreman he never tried to adapt his style to his changing body...he still tried to just use the power and it caught up with him.

Ali didn't dance as much when he was older, he held more, and he was boring as hell but he got the job done

Foreman used the jab more he stood up, didn't try to fight on the inside and he used the right cross instead of the huge right hook.

Tyson stopped moving his head and stopped throwing punches in bunches...IMO he should have used his handspeed more to become more of a pressure fighter and a punch load fighter instead of a one punch KO artist

Agreed. But dont you agree that post jail Tyson was indeed a very different fighter to the pre jail fighter with the one abberation on the record?

[El Kabong]

He was different but I think that the post jail Tyson was always lurking beneath the surface and it was guys like Cus, Rooney, Jacobs, and Cayton who kept him in line.

Tyson has said he got tired of being Mike Tyson...so I think he "self handicapped" in a way...if I lose I can blame something, the tatoo, I broke my back, I tried to break his arm, I bit his ear, etc....I think he was afraid to win, lose, or even try...he COULD have been better yes btu I still see Holyfield, Lewis, and Bowe beating him more times than not.

[Gandalf]

He was different but I think that the post jail Tyson was always lurking beneath the surface and it was guys like Cus, Rooney, Jacobs, and Cayton who kept him in line.

Tyson has said he got tired of being Mike Tyson...so I think he "self handicapped" in a way...if I lose I can blame something, the tatoo, I broke my back, I tried to break his arm, I bit his ear, etc....I think he was afraid to win, lose, or even try...he COULD have been better yes btu I still see Holyfield, Lewis, and Bowe beating him more times than not.

Tyson at his best would be a devil to handle for each of them....It took Holyfield along time to beat that rusty Tyson who was coming off a diet of cattle feed. Imagine what a pre jail Tyson would have done. Would have knocked Holy silly!!! As for Lewis He beat a very different breed of Tyson. 5 years of lay offs do take their toll. And Lewis thinks that is his crowning legacy He's a twit! Great fighter, but a twit for thinking that. If Rahman can KO Lewis, prime Tyson would murder him, hahahaha, Haasim Rahman!!! As for Bowe, well he was decent and big with a jab. But prime Tyson would have him outta there in 10.....

[ElTerribleMorales]

a prime Tyson's first loss came after a long hard fight, after knocking out his opponant and having the fight continue, a prime Lewis was taken out in 1 by McCall

[Gandalf]

a prime Tyson's first loss came after a long hard fight, after knocking out his opponant and having the fight continue, a prime Lewis was taken out in 1 by McCall

It was prime Tyson but lets face it...the Tyson that fought Douglas was not ready at all...

As for prime Lewis and an early ko...well, im not all that surprised...