Kahn v Barrera???

[leftylee]

Khan beats Barrera.

Barrera is an old man. He is far from elite now. Is the determination still there ? I doubt it. He's been there and done it.

Khan wants to prove the critics wrong. And he will. His speed will be too much for Barrera at this stage of his career. Khan is so fast, and he has power too. I already put £100 down at the bookies yesterday on Khan.

Freddie Roach will be the key ingredient. Freddie knows how to beat Barrera and his weaknesses.

[ICB]

I agree with JT, the facts don't lie. Sure, he may of gave a good account of himself against JMM and Pac but these were OVER 1 year ago and since then he hasn't been terribly active. The sport of boxing has saw people deteriate in a year of unactive boxing many times. Infact I'd probably say DLH got beat so bad due to his inactivity.. 5 fights in as many years?

The clear facts here are we know how sharp, fast and agile Amir is in the ring currently.. he's been active. We won't know just how good Barrera still is until he steps into the ring.. so in my eyes it's more of a risk for Barrera if anything.

Mentally he could be washed up too.. he can't think too highly of himself anymore if his comeback fight is against a no name in china followed by another no name.

MAB fought 3 or 4 easy fights after the 2 losses to Junior Jones, so i don't get your point ? mostly every boxer in the history of boxing, who is coming off a loss or is ring rusty takes a few easy fights.

[ICB]

No there not facts your bending the truth the fact is how isn't this a good style match up for him ? Manny Pacquiao is faster and more athletic than Amir Khan, yet MAB was able to box smart and hardly get caught with anything devastating, and gave a very good account of himself.

He hasn't showed he has loads of miles on the clock, thats your opinion and a wrong one at that. So your honestly gonna tell me that MAB looked like a fighter with loads of miles on the clock against the two best P4P fighters in the world ?

Lastly he is fighting no namers for tune up fights which is obvious, and too also get used to the weight he obviously isn't going to fight one of the best Lightweights in the world, for a tune up fight is he ?

I dont care how much you try to shovel my way

World class operators dont fight in chinese gyms with 17 loss fighters nor do they fight 17 fight guys with 4 losses..

Its apparent and you are doing what you do best here and thats try to baffle with BS..

Keep your opinion because Im not changing mine.. end of!!!! He isnt what he used to be.. Do you even remember how many rounds he won in the 24 against Pac and JMM I dont care about your score card Im talking about the official...

109-118 2X 112-115 once Pac

111-116 2x 109-118 once JMM

I would hardly call that impressive, so yea that shoots the argument you made to shit

Why are you getting frustrated for ? im just debating with you thats it, you was bending the truth and wasn't telling the whole story. MAB is fighting tune up fights like he did after his two losses to Junior Jones, i don't get why you feel any different ? why else would he be fighting two bums for other than to get the rust off and get some rounds in ?

You are really clutching at straws now JT, Yea MAB really lost to JMM by 5 points/9 points

Almost every boxing expert and everyone on this forum had that fight a very close fight, and quite a fair amount of people thought MAB won. Your argument is weak and you haven't shot anything to bits. Just because Lewis/Holyfield 1, Whitaker vs Chavez 1, were both draws and the "Official results" you really think those fights were scored that way in a correct way ? please. Thats very flawed logic.

JMM vs MAB was a very close contested battle and i had no problem with JMM getting the result. But by that amount ? get the hell out of here, its not just my opinion its just common sense and knowing how to score a fight.

Manny Pacquiao vs MAB 2 wasn't really close but i feel MAB was pretty much staying there with Manny Pacquiao, until the 9th round where Manny Pacquiao sweeped most of the championship rounds, but i think everyone was pretty much impressed with MAB's performance. He just wasn't active enough.

But i don't see how losing 1 very close decision to the P4P number 2 fighter, and giving a good effort against the P4P number 1 fighter. Is any argument to suggest Amir Khan has a shot against MAB or that MAB is totally shot i just don't get your logic.

I tell you what because we are both confidence in our opinion's. Why not just have a bet on the fight ? that settles the argument and the winner gets the bragging rights.

[JT Rock]

I dont care how much you try to shovel my way

World class operators dont fight in chinese gyms with 17 loss fighters nor do they fight 17 fight guys with 4 losses..

Its apparent and you are doing what you do best here and thats try to baffle with BS..

Keep your opinion because Im not changing mine.. end of!!!! He isnt what he used to be.. Do you even remember how many rounds he won in the 24 against Pac and JMM I dont care about your score card Im talking about the official...

109-118 2X 112-115 once Pac

111-116 2x 109-118 once JMM

I would hardly call that impressive, so yea that shoots the argument you made to shit

Why are you getting frustrated for ? im just debating with you thats it, you was bending the truth and wasn't telling the whole story. MAB is fighting tune up fights like he did after his two losses to Junior Jones, i don't get why you feel any different ? why else would he be fighting two bums for other than to get the rust off and get some rounds in ?

You are really clutching at straws now JT, Yea MAB really lost to JMM by 5 points/9 points

Almost every boxing expert and everyone on this forum had that fight a very close fight, and quite a fair amount of people thought MAB won. Your argument is weak and you haven't shot anything to bits. Just because Lewis/Holyfield 1, Whitaker vs Chavez 1, were both draws and the "Official results" you really think those fights were scored that way in a correct way ? please. Thats very flawed logic.

JMM vs MAB was a very close contested battle and i had no problem with JMM getting the result. But by that amount ? get the hell out of here, its not just my opinion its just common sense and knowing how to score a fight.

Manny Pacquiao vs MAB 2 wasn't really close but i feel MAB was pretty much staying there with Manny Pacquiao, until the 9th round where Manny Pacquiao sweeped most of the championship rounds, but i think everyone was pretty much impressed with MAB's performance. He just wasn't active enough.

But i don't see how losing 1 very close decision to the P4P number 2 fighter, and giving a good effort against the P4P number 1 fighter. Is any argument to suggest Amir Khan has a shot against MAB or that MAB is totally shot i just don't get your logic.

I tell you what because we are both confidence in our opinion's. Why not just have a bet on the fight ? that settles the argument and the winner gets the bragging rights.

How am I bending the truth?? He is Old by Boxing standards!!! I was a freshman in high school 1989 when Barrera tuned pro and now I am 33, Marco is old and thats the reality

Also you bring up the Junior Jones losses, why? at that level sure I can see taking 2 scrub fights because he wasnt the renowned world class hall of famer

it wasnt until after that he beat

Tapia

Ayala

Hamed

Kelly

Morales 2X
and other stops along the way.

That he became the legend he is..My point is if you achieved a level of greatness like he did, you dont fight in chinese gyms against God awful opposition. When you regress that far back, your not great anymore, plain and simple. You dont have it, its over..

Kahn has tremendous upside to him, sure he has a suspect chin but he has all the tangibles and tools to be an excellent fighter, if they can work to help protect that chin, than he will do good things.. That my friend will be enough to defeat an old, uninterested past his best Barrera

I am getting no more frustrated than you did at Bilbo when he was debating with you about Kahns speeding, and aspirations of being a champion

[:::PSL:::]

Khan beats Barrera.

Barrera is an old man. He is far from elite now. Is the determination still there ? I doubt it. He's been there and done it.

Khan wants to prove the critics wrong. And he will. His speed will be too much for Barrera at this stage of his career. Khan is so fast, and he has power too. I already put £100 down at the bookies yesterday on Khan.

Freddie Roach will be the key ingredient. Freddie knows how to beat Barrera and his weaknesses.

Agreed.

[Violent Demise]

I can see Barrera having a hard time dealing with Con's speed early on. But Barrera just needs to land one flush shot. That's it. The flashbacks will start flooding Con's mind and he'll freeze up. Barrera will see it and jump on him. Barrera by mid round knock out. Con fires Roach afterwards.

[GAME]

To say Barrera is a c+ fighter you must be 1 of three things

1. Off your head
2. A hater
3. A wind up merchant

I dont know to many A-B fightrs that arent ranked in the top 10 in their division

Show me were the Ring magazine ranks Barrera

Thats because MAB has moved up and has only had one fight against a nobody, thats why he isn't rated in the top 10 rankings in that weightclass ? but if you honestly think if MAB was still at Super Featherweight he shouldn't be rated above guys like Nicky Cook, Mzonke Fana, Rocky Juarez, then im speechless.

Exactly . I think he is missing the point that Barrera has been retired.

Floyd is no longer ranked. Does that make him a c+ fighter ? Nope . he could return tomorrow and be the best in the wordl even if "ring magazine" doesnt agree.


quote from violent demise

I can see Barrera having a hard time dealing with Con's speed early on. But Barrera just needs to land one flush shot. That's it. The flashbacks will start flooding Con's mind and he'll freeze up. Barrera will see it and jump on him. Barrera by mid round knock out. Con fires Roach afterwards.

Agreed. Barrera may struggle abit with the speed and size of Khan but hes dealt with bigger obstacles. Pac was quick but Barrera negated his speed with his ringcraft so Pac was pretty much stuck in the mud. Thats why it was such a boring fight. If Barrera chooses to he can just not allow Khan to him him whatso ever. Like Steve Bunce said. If he can stop Khan and Marquez overwhelming him then what chance has Khan got.

As for the people who are saying Barrera is washed up , yes he is past his best , nobody can dispute that but to beat him you have to be pretty decent . Khan is not. Gomez hurt him to head and Body . Limond had him down and badly staggered. khan was knocked cold by an unknown. he was floored in the ametuares when he was wearing head gear. What has he ever done to convince people he could beat one of the gratest fighters ever?

[skel1983]

Intresting that the odds have gone nearly full circle, when the fight was announced they had Barrera the 1/2 favourite, now most bookies have Kahn at 4/7.

[ICB]

Why are you getting frustrated for ? im just debating with you thats it, you was bending the truth and wasn't telling the whole story. MAB is fighting tune up fights like he did after his two losses to Junior Jones, i don't get why you feel any different ? why else would he be fighting two bums for other than to get the rust off and get some rounds in ?

You are really clutching at straws now JT, Yea MAB really lost to JMM by 5 points/9 points

Almost every boxing expert and everyone on this forum had that fight a very close fight, and quite a fair amount of people thought MAB won. Your argument is weak and you haven't shot anything to bits. Just because Lewis/Holyfield 1, Whitaker vs Chavez 1, were both draws and the "Official results" you really think those fights were scored that way in a correct way ? please. Thats very flawed logic.

JMM vs MAB was a very close contested battle and i had no problem with JMM getting the result. But by that amount ? get the hell out of here, its not just my opinion its just common sense and knowing how to score a fight.

Manny Pacquiao vs MAB 2 wasn't really close but i feel MAB was pretty much staying there with Manny Pacquiao, until the 9th round where Manny Pacquiao sweeped most of the championship rounds, but i think everyone was pretty much impressed with MAB's performance. He just wasn't active enough.

But i don't see how losing 1 very close decision to the P4P number 2 fighter, and giving a good effort against the P4P number 1 fighter. Is any argument to suggest Amir Khan has a shot against MAB or that MAB is totally shot i just don't get your logic.

I tell you what because we are both confidence in our opinion's. Why not just have a bet on the fight ? that settles the argument and the winner gets the bragging rights.

How am I bending the truth?? He is Old by Boxing standards!!! I was a freshman in high school 1989 when Barrera tuned pro and now I am 33, Marco is old and thats the reality

Also you bring up the Junior Jones losses, why? at that level sure I can see taking 2 scrub fights because he wasnt the renowned world class hall of famer

it wasnt until after that he beat

Tapia

Ayala

Hamed

Kelly

Morales 2X
and other stops along the way.

That he became the legend he is..My point is if you achieved a level of greatness like he did, you dont fight in chinese gyms against God awful opposition. When you regress that far back, your not great anymore, plain and simple. You dont have it, its over..

Kahn has tremendous upside to him, sure he has a suspect chin but he has all the tangibles and tools to be an excellent fighter, if they can work to help protect that chin, than he will do good things.. That my friend will be enough to defeat an old, uninterested past his best Barrera

I am getting no more frustrated than you did at Bilbo when he was debating with you about Kahns speeding, and aspirations of being a champion

First off i never got frustated at Bilbo i just pointed out, why i dislike Amir Khan i never once got frustrated. Secondly 33 years old isn't always old for some fighters. Granted MAB isn't what he used to be but what im not getting is how the hell you can tell MAB is a C+ fighter.

When MAB gave very good account of himself against two of the best P4P fighters in the world. And hasn't shown he is a C+ fighter, your just assuming there is no evidence of that in his last few fights.

The reason im bringing up the Junior Jones losses, is because he's doing exactly what he's doing now what he done then. Take a break from boxing, then fight a couple of journeyman fighters to get the rust off, to get ready to start fighting better opponents in the future.

And i think your really overrating Amir Khan here, i don't think he has the tools to be an excellent fighter at all. His defense is terrible at times and his chin is just ridiculously bad. Sure he has speed and some pop, but he hasn't got the talent that fighters like Yuriorkis Gamboa, Abner Mares, have.

Weak chin or not if you have great skills, you shouldn't be getting dropped and hurt by D class fighters. Terry Norris had a very weak chin but he reigned at Jr Middleweight for years, because he had excellent skills. Thomas Hearns had a suspect chin but he had excellent skills and look what he achieved.

So these fighters could more often than not get away with it because they have excellent skills. Amir Khan doesn't he has talent for certain but does he have excellent skills or have the tools be an excellent fighter ? you have to be kidding me he isn't even the most talented prospect at the moment.

[JT Rock]

I tell you what because we are both confidence in our opinion's. Why not just have a bet on the fight ? that settles the argument and the winner gets the bragging rights.

How am I bending the truth?? He is Old by Boxing standards!!! I was a freshman in high school 1989 when Barrera tuned pro and now I am 33, Marco is old and thats the reality

Also you bring up the Junior Jones losses, why? at that level sure I can see taking 2 scrub fights because he wasnt the renowned world class hall of famer

it wasnt until after that he beat

Tapia

Ayala

Hamed

Kelly

Morales 2X
and other stops along the way.

That he became the legend he is..My point is if you achieved a level of greatness like he did, you dont fight in chinese gyms against God awful opposition. When you regress that far back, your not great anymore, plain and simple. You dont have it, its over..

Kahn has tremendous upside to him, sure he has a suspect chin but he has all the tangibles and tools to be an excellent fighter, if they can work to help protect that chin, than he will do good things.. That my friend will be enough to defeat an old, uninterested past his best Barrera

I am getting no more frustrated than you did at Bilbo when he was debating with you about Kahns speeding, and aspirations of being a champion

First off i never got frustated at Bilbo i just pointed out, why i dislike Amir Khan i never once got frustrated. Secondly 33 years old isn't always old for some fighters. Granted MAB isn't what he used to be but what im not getting is how the hell you can tell MAB is a C+ fighter.

When MAB gave very good account of himself against two of the best P4P fighters in the world. And hasn't shown he is a C+ fighter, your just assuming there is no evidence of that in his last few fights.

The reason im bringing up the Junior Jones losses, is because he's doing exactly what he's doing now what he done then. Take a break from boxing, then fight a couple of journeyman fighters to get the rust off, to get ready to start fighting better opponents in the future.

And i think your really overrating Amir Khan here, i don't think he has the tools to be an excellent fighter at all. His defense is terrible at times and his chin is just ridiculously bad. Sure he has speed and some pop, but he hasn't got the talent that fighters like Yuriorkis Gamboa, Abner Mares, have.

Weak chin or not if you have great skills, you shouldn't be getting dropped and hurt by D class fighters. Terry Norris had a very weak chin but he reigned at Jr Middleweight for years, because he had excellent skills. Thomas Hearns had a suspect chin but he had excellent skills and look what he achieved.

So these fighters could more often than not get away with it because they have excellent skills. Amir Khan doesn't he has talent for certain but does he have excellent skills or have the tools be an excellent fighter ? you have to be kidding me he isn't even the most talented prospect at the moment.

Im done with this conversation... Barrera is an OLD BOXER Fact, JMM is the same age and is the #2 fighter in the world, at 35 is still a world class operator and if he lost I doubt he would be taking warm up fights in chinese gyms against scrubs..

Barrera is not world class anymore, I could go in circles with you but for the sake of being redundant, Im satisfied that I have proved my point

Kahn is only 21 so he is still developing, he has all the raw talent .

[ICB]

How am I bending the truth?? He is Old by Boxing standards!!! I was a freshman in high school 1989 when Barrera tuned pro and now I am 33, Marco is old and thats the reality

Also you bring up the Junior Jones losses, why? at that level sure I can see taking 2 scrub fights because he wasnt the renowned world class hall of famer

it wasnt until after that he beat

Tapia

Ayala

Hamed

Kelly

Morales 2X
and other stops along the way.

That he became the legend he is..My point is if you achieved a level of greatness like he did, you dont fight in chinese gyms against God awful opposition. When you regress that far back, your not great anymore, plain and simple. You dont have it, its over..

Kahn has tremendous upside to him, sure he has a suspect chin but he has all the tangibles and tools to be an excellent fighter, if they can work to help protect that chin, than he will do good things.. That my friend will be enough to defeat an old, uninterested past his best Barrera

I am getting no more frustrated than you did at Bilbo when he was debating with you about Kahns speeding, and aspirations of being a champion

First off i never got frustated at Bilbo i just pointed out, why i dislike Amir Khan i never once got frustrated. Secondly 33 years old isn't always old for some fighters. Granted MAB isn't what he used to be but what im not getting is how the hell you can tell MAB is a C+ fighter.

When MAB gave very good account of himself against two of the best P4P fighters in the world. And hasn't shown he is a C+ fighter, your just assuming there is no evidence of that in his last few fights.

The reason im bringing up the Junior Jones losses, is because he's doing exactly what he's doing now what he done then. Take a break from boxing, then fight a couple of journeyman fighters to get the rust off, to get ready to start fighting better opponents in the future.

And i think your really overrating Amir Khan here, i don't think he has the tools to be an excellent fighter at all. His defense is terrible at times and his chin is just ridiculously bad. Sure he has speed and some pop, but he hasn't got the talent that fighters like Yuriorkis Gamboa, Abner Mares, have.

Weak chin or not if you have great skills, you shouldn't be getting dropped and hurt by D class fighters. Terry Norris had a very weak chin but he reigned at Jr Middleweight for years, because he had excellent skills. Thomas Hearns had a suspect chin but he had excellent skills and look what he achieved.

So these fighters could more often than not get away with it because they have excellent skills. Amir Khan doesn't he has talent for certain but does he have excellent skills or have the tools be an excellent fighter ? you have to be kidding me he isn't even the most talented prospect at the moment.

Im done with this conversation... Barrera is an OLD BOXER Fact, JMM is the same age and is the #2 fighter in the world, at 35 is still a world class operator and if he lost I doubt he would be taking warm up fights in chinese gyms against scrubs..

Barrera is not world class anymore, I could go in circles with you but for the sake of being redundant, Im satisfied that I have proved my point

Kahn is only 21 so he is still developing, he has all the raw talent .

What have you proved though ? all of your comments are assumptions not facts. I gave you facts while MAB is not past it, because from previous fights he certainly didn't look old or a C+ fighter as you put it.

Which i have no idea how you come to that conclusion considering his fights with JMM, Manny Pacquiao. What class does that make JMM, Manny Pacquiao, then ?

Even when MAB was in his prime after he lost he fought scrubs as warm up fights. I really don't know why your making such a big deal out of it, Mostly every boxer fights scrubs to get rounds in or get the rust off.

I don't see how that proves MAB is a shot fighter, and considering he has another tune up before the Amir Khan fight that proves my point.

You say Amir Khan is still learning but has he learned ? he supposedly had a new trainer to teach him defense. But he still dropped his hands after finishing a combination moving backwards.

Obviously you can teach defense but its more of a natural instinct, i know everytime i finished throwing a combination and move backwards. My natural instinct is too put my hands up straight away, Amir Khan doesn't seem to have that instinct and he may never learn.

He hasn't learnt all through the Amateurs or in the Pro's. Even with different trainers so i don't see what else can be done. He is very chinny and if he doesn't improve his defense talent or not, he will never move up. And i doubt he can dramatically improve his defense that quickly before the MAB fight.

[Violent Demise]

How am I bending the truth?? He is Old by Boxing standards!!! I was a freshman in high school 1989 when Barrera tuned pro and now I am 33, Marco is old and thats the reality

Also you bring up the Junior Jones losses, why? at that level sure I can see taking 2 scrub fights because he wasnt the renowned world class hall of famer

it wasnt until after that he beat

Tapia

Ayala

Hamed

Kelly

Morales 2X
and other stops along the way.

That he became the legend he is..My point is if you achieved a level of greatness like he did, you dont fight in chinese gyms against God awful opposition. When you regress that far back, your not great anymore, plain and simple. You dont have it, its over..

Kahn has tremendous upside to him, sure he has a suspect chin but he has all the tangibles and tools to be an excellent fighter, if they can work to help protect that chin, than he will do good things.. That my friend will be enough to defeat an old, uninterested past his best Barrera

I am getting no more frustrated than you did at Bilbo when he was debating with you about Kahns speeding, and aspirations of being a champion

First off i never got frustated at Bilbo i just pointed out, why i dislike Amir Khan i never once got frustrated. Secondly 33 years old isn't always old for some fighters. Granted MAB isn't what he used to be but what im not getting is how the hell you can tell MAB is a C+ fighter.

When MAB gave very good account of himself against two of the best P4P fighters in the world. And hasn't shown he is a C+ fighter, your just assuming there is no evidence of that in his last few fights.

The reason im bringing up the Junior Jones losses, is because he's doing exactly what he's doing now what he done then. Take a break from boxing, then fight a couple of journeyman fighters to get the rust off, to get ready to start fighting better opponents in the future.

And i think your really overrating Amir Khan here, i don't think he has the tools to be an excellent fighter at all. His defense is terrible at times and his chin is just ridiculously bad. Sure he has speed and some pop, but he hasn't got the talent that fighters like Yuriorkis Gamboa, Abner Mares, have.

Weak chin or not if you have great skills, you shouldn't be getting dropped and hurt by D class fighters. Terry Norris had a very weak chin but he reigned at Jr Middleweight for years, because he had excellent skills. Thomas Hearns had a suspect chin but he had excellent skills and look what he achieved.

So these fighters could more often than not get away with it because they have excellent skills. Amir Khan doesn't he has talent for certain but does he have excellent skills or have the tools be an excellent fighter ? you have to be kidding me he isn't even the most talented prospect at the moment.

Im done with this conversation... Barrera is an OLD BOXER Fact, JMM is the same age and is the #2 fighter in the world, at 35 is still a world class operator and if he lost I doubt he would be taking warm up fights in chinese gyms against scrubs..

Barrera is not world class anymore, I could go in circles with you but for the sake of being redundant, Im satisfied that I have proved my point

Kahn is only 21 so he is still developing, he has all the raw talent .

I agree 100%. Barrera world class days are over. But what your not realizing is Con isn't world class himself. And will never be world class. Barrera over Con

[JT Rock]

First off i never got frustated at Bilbo i just pointed out, why i dislike Amir Khan i never once got frustrated. Secondly 33 years old isn't always old for some fighters. Granted MAB isn't what he used to be but what im not getting is how the hell you can tell MAB is a C+ fighter.

When MAB gave very good account of himself against two of the best P4P fighters in the world. And hasn't shown he is a C+ fighter, your just assuming there is no evidence of that in his last few fights.

The reason im bringing up the Junior Jones losses, is because he's doing exactly what he's doing now what he done then. Take a break from boxing, then fight a couple of journeyman fighters to get the rust off, to get ready to start fighting better opponents in the future.

And i think your really overrating Amir Khan here, i don't think he has the tools to be an excellent fighter at all. His defense is terrible at times and his chin is just ridiculously bad. Sure he has speed and some pop, but he hasn't got the talent that fighters like Yuriorkis Gamboa, Abner Mares, have.

Weak chin or not if you have great skills, you shouldn't be getting dropped and hurt by D class fighters. Terry Norris had a very weak chin but he reigned at Jr Middleweight for years, because he had excellent skills. Thomas Hearns had a suspect chin but he had excellent skills and look what he achieved.

So these fighters could more often than not get away with it because they have excellent skills. Amir Khan doesn't he has talent for certain but does he have excellent skills or have the tools be an excellent fighter ? you have to be kidding me he isn't even the most talented prospect at the moment.

Im done with this conversation... Barrera is an OLD BOXER Fact, JMM is the same age and is the #2 fighter in the world, at 35 is still a world class operator and if he lost I doubt he would be taking warm up fights in chinese gyms against scrubs..

Barrera is not world class anymore, I could go in circles with you but for the sake of being redundant, Im satisfied that I have proved my point

Kahn is only 21 so he is still developing, he has all the raw talent .

What have you proved though ? all of your comments are assumptions not facts. I gave you facts while MAB is not past it, because from previous fights he certainly didn't look old or a C+ fighter as you put it.

Which i have no idea how you come to that conclusion considering his fights with JMM, Manny Pacquiao. What class does that make JMM, Manny Pacquiao, then ?

Even when MAB was in his prime after he lost he fought scrubs as warm up fights. I really don't know why your making such a big deal out of it, Mostly every boxer fights scrubs to get rounds in or get the rust off.

I don't see how that proves MAB is a shot fighter, and considering he has another tune up before the Amir Khan fight that proves my point.

You say Amir Khan is still learning but has he learned ? he supposedly had a new trainer to teach him defense. But he still dropped his hands after finishing a combination moving backwards.

Obviously you can teach defense but its more of a natural instinct, i know everytime i finished throwing a combination and move backwards. My natural instinct is too put my hands up straight away, Amir Khan doesn't seem to have that instinct and he may never learn.

He hasn't learnt all through the Amateurs or in the Pro's. Even with different trainers so i don't see what else can be done. He is very chinny and if he doesn't improve his defense talent or not, he will never move up. And i doubt he can dramatically improve his defense that quickly before the MAB fight.

You havent gave any facts ICE, you have just gave opinions..

MAB is not the same fighter he is old and cant do what he once could, he is at the twilight of his career... He gave a mediocre showing against JMM and did zip against Pac.. Looked nothing like the fighter that we all came to love in either of those fights..

He is fighting a bigger, stronger, faster younger fighter, who is hungry and is anxious to prove a point after being embarassed.

Its a natural progression that every fighter goes thru, whether you want to believe it or not.. Barrera's time has come and gone, now he will be a litmus test for a young upstart..

Also were do you see Barrera going after this, even if he wasnt going to fight Kahn or say he beats him what type fighter in the game today do you give him a chance to beat.. Your only an A-B fighter if your beating those type of guys... So who is Barrera going to defeat at the top?

[boxer1234]

Khan struggles with C-D level fighters so Barrera beats him all day and night long.
As for barrera being shot; if he comes even 3/4's of the form he did against Marquez he will win easily.

[ICB]

Im done with this conversation... Barrera is an OLD BOXER Fact, JMM is the same age and is the #2 fighter in the world, at 35 is still a world class operator and if he lost I doubt he would be taking warm up fights in chinese gyms against scrubs..

Barrera is not world class anymore, I could go in circles with you but for the sake of being redundant, Im satisfied that I have proved my point

Kahn is only 21 so he is still developing, he has all the raw talent .

What have you proved though ? all of your comments are assumptions not facts. I gave you facts while MAB is not past it, because from previous fights he certainly didn't look old or a C+ fighter as you put it.

Which i have no idea how you come to that conclusion considering his fights with JMM, Manny Pacquiao. What class does that make JMM, Manny Pacquiao, then ?

Even when MAB was in his prime after he lost he fought scrubs as warm up fights. I really don't know why your making such a big deal out of it, Mostly every boxer fights scrubs to get rounds in or get the rust off.

I don't see how that proves MAB is a shot fighter, and considering he has another tune up before the Amir Khan fight that proves my point.

You say Amir Khan is still learning but has he learned ? he supposedly had a new trainer to teach him defense. But he still dropped his hands after finishing a combination moving backwards.

Obviously you can teach defense but its more of a natural instinct, i know everytime i finished throwing a combination and move backwards. My natural instinct is too put my hands up straight away, Amir Khan doesn't seem to have that instinct and he may never learn.

He hasn't learnt all through the Amateurs or in the Pro's. Even with different trainers so i don't see what else can be done. He is very chinny and if he doesn't improve his defense talent or not, he will never move up. And i doubt he can dramatically improve his defense that quickly before the MAB fight.

You havent gave any facts ICE, you have just gave opinions..

MAB is not the same fighter he is old and cant do what he once could, he is at the twilight of his career... He gave a mediocre showing against JMM and did zip against Pac.. Looked nothing like the fighter that we all came to love in either of those fights..

He is fighting a bigger, stronger, faster younger fighter, who is hungry and is anxious to prove a point after being embarassed.

Its a natural progression that every fighter goes thru, whether you want to believe it or not.. Barrera's time has come and gone, now he will be a litmus test for a young upstart..

Also were do you see Barrera going after this, even if he wasnt going to fight Kahn or say he beats him what type fighter in the game today do you give him a chance to beat.. Your only an A-B fighter if your beating those type of guys... So who is Barrera going to defeat at the top?

Im seriously questioning if you've even seen JMM vs MAB, because by the sounds of it you haven't. You first produced the scorecards suggesting to me MAB wasn't competitive. When actually anyone who saw the fight knows it was razor thin close.

Now you have just said MAB put in a mediocre performance ? are you kidding me JT ? MAB fought a very good fight against JMM he landed more punches, marked up JMM's face up pretty badly.

He was also able to knockdown JMM and stay pretty even with JMM in the countering battle. MAB lost by 2 rounds at max and you could even make an argument he won the fight. So how the hell can it be a mediocre performance especially against the 2nd P4P fighter in the world ?

What are you saying ? seriously that doesn't even make sense. Because going by that logic JMM is just above mediocre, if he struggled badly against a MAB who put in a average performance according to you.

Against Manny Pacquiao it was pretty close as i said before, until after the 9th round. But MAB fought a smart fight he just wasn't active enough, but he did make the P4P number 1 fighter look bad so i would hardly say it was a bad performance.

Lastly i have gave you facts the facts are right there in those 2 fights, in none of those fights did he look like a C+ class fighter. Your assumptions that MAB will look like a C+ class fighter is just that an assumption, nothing more nothing less you cannot give me any facts to prove so.

Because in none of his previous fights has he looked anywhere close to a C+ class fighter. Im not making out those were his finest performances but jesus JT, he was fighting the two best P4P fighters in the world, i think he gave good account of himself in the Manny Pacquiao fight, and a superb account of himself in the JMM fight.

Amir Khan hasn't even been in with a B+ class fighter yet, and he was recently KO'ed by a nobody. And he has struggled against fighters even lower than C+ class.

Lastly who do i see MAB beating at Lightweight ? assuming he is ok at that weight ? Michael Katsidis, Juan Diaz, David Diaz, Julio Diaz, Edwin Valero, ETC. And i'd give him a decent chance against Nate Campbell, Joel Casamayor, ETC. Even if he didn't beat all the top fighters at Lightweight, he would be very competitive with every single one of them, if as i said he is fine at the weight.