Just another one of Wacko's Drunken Round by Rounds : Calzaghe vs Kessler

[Gandalf]

Bollocks. Hopkins: Winky was awful and there is little to suggest Hopkins can raise his game beyond that at this stage of his career. Hopkins was great but he hasnt been great for a long, long time.

Calzaghe right now is at the zenith of what he will be. Hopkins can fight rough but Calzaghe has too much for an old Hopkins by a long way.

Part of me really doesnt want to see a Hopkins: Calzaghe fight. Hopkins will get beaten up.

[Wacko3205]

Joe's second MASTERPIECE CONGRATS JOE!!!

THE HATERS ARE IRRELEVANT NOW

Tell me about it.

If your'e a true fan of boxing...you can't say with a straight face that that wasn't beautiful!

I'm proud to be a boxing fan tonight!!!

I'm proud too. Calzaghe was magical tonight.

Hopkins is a whole different kind of game though, he would make Joe look sort of like Bika made him look.

I'd pay to see that fight though but im not flying all the way to england to see it Thank god for hbo

Time for debate.

Hopkins vs Calzaghe will shock everyone.

Joe will be the first fighter on the face of the earth outside of the Pre-Prime-Jones to make Hopkins come off as confused & confounded.

Joe wasn't made anything by Bika.

It's a flaw & it's also common knowledge that Joe fights to the level of his opposition.

Hopkins is the fight of his career. He knows that...Hopkins knows that...Oscar knows that...they will ALL bank on it!!!!

Alright I'll return this debate

Hopkins is the greatest fighter that Calzaghe has fought, same can't be said for Hopkins.

Calzaghe is good, but Kessler really doesn't have a defense. His basic defense was his box defense and keeping his opposition at a distance with his shots.

He is an outside fighter, and he faced a better outside fighter in Joe Calzaghe.

Joe's defense isn't particularly magical either, he took a lot of shots from Kessler, he didn't fall or buckle but he took a lot, particularly when Kessler counter punched.

Hopkins also can fight inside and outside and has one of the best defenses in boxing.

Not to mention the fact that Joe is a southpaw and we know, and you should know, how good Hopkins is against southpaws.

I remember you said that throwing a lot of punches is good and well but without a defense you won't last long.

Joe really doesn't have that much of a defense, he is just very good at keeping people on the outside so he can tag them

But he flails his arms when he goes after people. It's very effective but sloppy, and Hopkins is a good inside fighter and he also has a deadly right hand and he lands those shots effectively against southpaws, one thing the Kessler fight showed was that Joe is prone to uppercuts. And I remember a fight Hopkins had against a southpaw he landed an uppercut that ended the other guys career.

Hopkins has a formula to beat southpaw's very well.

Hopkins would also give Joe angles he's never seen and is faster then Kessler. Yes Hopkins is faster then Kessler and a better boxer who can fight on the inside and the outside can counter punch and lead and is the complete package not to mention defense craftiness and smarts. I think Calzaghe would be the one dumbfounded.

I'd actually pick Calzaghe against Wright stylewise before I'd ever pick him over Hopkins.


Tell me your side on how you think Joe could have Hopins dumbfounded? What can Joe give Hopkins that would dumbfound him

One southpaw doesn’t equal another.

Let me just say this…Calzaghe aint gonna be there to be hit like everyone in Hopkins most recent bouts.

Joe’s awkward & slings from all angles…so southpaw or not…Hopkins HAS NEVER FACED ANYONE LIKE JOE CALZAGHE.

That being said…neither has Joe faced anyone like Hopkins.

While Hopkins may have ended other people’s careers…that was a long time ago.

A long long time ago.

I often find myself amused at how many people keep counting Joe out…& how he just keeps on winning. It’s either “Calzaghe slaps his shots in, Calzaghe’s sloppy, Calzaghe flails his arms when he goes after people.”

I like that one the best…because you countered yourself by stating that “It's very effective”& then rebounded with “but sloppy.”

Let me say this…as much as I love Hopkins…as much as he is my favorite fighter…he‘s an accumulative puncher. One that tucks his chin to his chest & lunges with his shots. Hopkins is a good inside fighter because he’s ruff & dirty…but he’s going to have to get inside to be ruff & dirty…& Joe’s known for being able to either go toe to toe or fight off the back foot.

I don’t see Hopkins having an easy night with Joe…inside or out…period. Calzaghe always fights to the level of his opposition. When Joe is in a fight that is of championship caliber…he fights like a champion. He’s there to give no quarter & he’s in your face all night. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed it or not…but Joe loves a fight. Joe loves to be tested & he’s taken power from some heavy handed youngsters in the last few years & come out smelling like a rose.

Hopkins output will not match Joe’s…Hopkins hasn’t thrown 100 punches a round in quite sometime. Against Taylor…there were rounds that you could count the punches on both hands. That deadly right hand that he lands against southpaws? Look…I’m a die hard Hopkins fan…I’m one of those fans that get’s all defensive when debating with the best of ‘em…but his right hand hasn’t been deadly in as long as it’s been that he’s thrown 100 punches a round.

Kessler may have landed uppercuts against Joe…but just because one fight showed you something that you might not have seen in Joe…that should just be a cue for you to invest some time in watching some more Calzaghe fights. Joe’s not prone to uppers.

Volume, accuracy, & awkwardness are what I say hands Hopkins another loss.

If Taylor can do it…I don’t see there being such a far fetched chance that Calzaghe could.

Honestly...one of the funniest things about me being a boxing fan on this site...I get more S*** for being unbiased as I believe I would being biased. This is boxing...not "hero worship"...if I believed that everyone of my favorites was unbeatable...I'd have quit being a boxing fan a loooooooooooooooooong time ago.

Same can be said other ways about Calzaghe.

Hopkins isn't going to be there for Joe to hit either, and the 100 punches a round is good.

I have more to say but I have to head home

Alright...you have until the morning...but then I demand your answer...or this means WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!! !

Heh heh heh.

Seriously though...while I recognize Hopkins as the favorite...as he is ofcourse my favorite...lately...he's just gotten a lot dirtier & he's using it as a huge equalizer.

I know an accidental head butt when I see one...& there's a difference in an accidental head butt...& a Hopkins head butt. While I recognize that Hopkins is a fantastic fighter on the inside...he's gotten a lot more choosey about what he throws...& thus down goes the output & he focuses on using the ring a lot more than he used to. I don't mean that like he's running or anything like that...but his style has changed a lot more & sometimes not for the better.

I really believe that Joe's awkward style, volume, accuracey, & chin is going to shock a hell of a lot of people on this site...then again...maybe not.

Hopkins vs Calzaghe would be like Bika vs Calzaghe only Hopkins would do a hell of alot better than Bika did Hopkins will rough up Calzaghe and it will be horrible fight i think Calzaghe wins razor thin decision.

I would agree...but I just can't...not being a die hard Hopkins fan for the duration of his career.

I'm proud of the Nard for being over 40 & still kicking asses & taking titles & names...much as he did with Winky...but Hopkins fought a smaller man in Winky...a fatter Winky ( ) no doubt...but still the smaller man & was able to bully him around after bashing his brain through the back of his skull by way of his eye socket.

Joe is more established at 168lbs while Hopkins is at 160lbs. Hopkins has been on a target weight for decades by choice while Calzaghe has been struggling at times to stay @ 168lbs...also by choice...but I seriously doubt that Joe will slow when he raises to 175lbs...or 170lbs...whatever the weight.

Calzaghe's faster, throws more, & is as awkward as Bernard is cagey.

Sure Hopkins will do better than Bika...he'd better...but the thing is...& this is a proven fact...Calzaghe fights up to the level of his competition...& that aint just a quoteable quote.

The man get's up for the big fights...Hopkins will be the biggest fight/challenge of his career...he won't be sitting down on his stool or letting the Nard muscle him around like he has Oscar, Winky, Tito, & even Tarver.

Maybe I just have too much faith in Calzaghe...or maybe I just watch Hopkins a bit closer than I used to. Defensive cagey veteran or not...he has slipped & he won't be able to afford that luxury against Calzaghe.

[Myk_Myk]

Well, I was out of town and just recently watched the fight. That was some high caliber stuff!

I found the right page and read the RBR after each round. Thanks for a great service wacko!

I never posted about this fight beforehand, because I was finding it very hard to pick either who I thought would win or who I wanted to win. I respected, and liked both about equally.

It's amazing and yet somehow not too surprising that there are still haters for Calzaghe. I can understand not liking his style, but c'mon give the man his due he deserves it!

I disagree with Emanuel that Kessler wouldn't have a chance in a rematch. I think it's possible he could've made adjustments and if he had a better night than Joe, win. I say "could've", because it won't happen...

[Bomp]

For all the Calzaghe doubters, I'm just curious, If he deals soundly with Hopkins, who's the next guy on the list that Joe C is just to 'sloppy' to beat?

[Wacko3205]

I found the right page and read the RBR after each round. Thanks for a great service wacko!

babe. Glad it worked for ya. It's what I'm here fo'!

It's amazing and yet somehow not too surprising that there are still haters for Calzaghe. I can understand not liking his style, but c'mon give the man his due he deserves it!

Agreed...people kill me with that horse shit.

I disagree with Emanuel that Kessler wouldn't have a chance in a rematch. I think it's possible he could've made adjustments and if he had a better night than Joe, win. I say "could've", because it won't happen...

Honestly...I don't think that Kessler can improve enough to be Joe...no matter what he thinks.

For all the Calzaghe doubters, I'm just curious, If he deals soundly with Hopkins, who's the next guy on the list that Joe C is just to 'sloppy' to beat?

Very well stated...but I have your answer : Roy Jones Jr...

Honestly...being a huge Calzaghe fan...& an even bigger Hopkins fan...I say that it turns out to be a ruff fight & a tuff night for both...but I think that Joe beats him...& I've listed the reasons elsewhere.

The thing is...everyone attributes Hopkins for being a real ring general & a thinker on the mat...well so is Joe.

Joe fights to the level of his opposition & he always works a man out. You can watch him doing it down the stretch.

As great as Hopkins is...I say that Joe's volume & awkwardness are a key factor in a Hopkins loss.

[ICB]

In rough untidy fights Calzaghe hasn't faired that well in the past look at Reid fight that was untidy and very rough fight and Reid hit Calzaghe over and over with right hands and was rocking and reeling Calzaghe plenty of times and imo it was a draw the Salem fight yes Calzaghe won clearly but had some bad moments like being dropped with vicious over hand right right on the chin and the Bika fight Calzaghe was also roughed up pretty bad Hopkins will make this fight very untidy and rough up Calzaghe on inside i think Calzaghe wins based on his workrate but Hopkins even though he is old can still get Calzaghe off his rythm and be very tough test for Calzaghe i think it will be one of Calzaghe's hardest fights.

[Wacko3205]

In rough untidy fights Calzaghe hasn't faired that well in the past look at Reid fight that was untidy and very rough fight and Reid hit Calzaghe over and over with right hands and was rocking and reeling Calzaghe plenty of times and imo it was a draw the Salem fight yes Calzaghe won clearly but had some bad moments like being dropped with vicious over hand right right on the chin and the Bika fight Calzaghe was also roughed up pretty bad Hopkins will make this fight very untidy and rough up Calzaghe on inside i think Calzaghe wins based on his workrate but Hopkins even though he is old can still get Calzaghe off his rythm and be very tough test for Calzaghe i think it will be one of Calzaghe's hardest fights.

Can't disagree there...but I still say that Calzaghe's gonna be the most "live body" that the Nard has been tossed in with for years & it's going to be a whoooooooooooooole lot more level playing field than he's traveled down in his last 5 fights.

He'll be in against someone faster, stronger, & more angular than anyone he's faced...that's another thing that's going to be bad for Hopkins.

While Wright was the best out of the list that he's fought over the last 3 or 4 years...Wright was waaaaaaaaay outta his weight class & came in...no other way to say it...fat & flabby.

Tarver? The same...even though I think that Hopkins totally took Tarver out of his came plan...what game plan has Tarver really ever had?

Taylor? I still believe that Taylor lost the first fight...the second one...he pulled out...but it wasn't by a stretch & Taylor has proven to be an underacheiver.

Hence the "live body" analogy.

Joe is going to be just as much a handful for Hopkins as Hopkins is for Joe. No one really studies Joe & gives him credit for being crafty...they lump it in with him being awkward...or ridiculously enough...sloppy.

These are the same people that always called Joe's style ugly & awkward. After he beat Kessler...who'm those people said he would lose to...they downgraded Joe to sloppy.

I am, like some of my fellow posters, eager to see what Joe is downgraded to after he handles Hopkins.

[ICB]

In rough untidy fights Calzaghe hasn't faired that well in the past look at Reid fight that was untidy and very rough fight and Reid hit Calzaghe over and over with right hands and was rocking and reeling Calzaghe plenty of times and imo it was a draw the Salem fight yes Calzaghe won clearly but had some bad moments like being dropped with vicious over hand right right on the chin and the Bika fight Calzaghe was also roughed up pretty bad Hopkins will make this fight very untidy and rough up Calzaghe on inside i think Calzaghe wins based on his workrate but Hopkins even though he is old can still get Calzaghe off his rythm and be very tough test for Calzaghe i think it will be one of Calzaghe's hardest fights.

Can't disagree there...but I still say that Calzaghe's gonna be the most "live body" that the Nard has been tossed in with for years & it's going to be a whoooooooooooooole lot more level playing field than he's traveled down in his last 5 fights.

He'll be in against someone faster, stronger, & more angular than anyone he's faced...that's another thing that's going to be bad for Hopkins.

While Wright was the best out of the list that he's fought over the last 3 or 4 years...Wright was waaaaaaaaay outta his weight class & came in...no other way to say it...fat & flabby.

Tarver? The same...even though I think that Hopkins totally took Tarver out of his came plan...what game plan has Tarver really ever had?

Taylor? I still believe that Taylor lost the first fight...the second one...he pulled out...but it wasn't by a stretch & Taylor has proven to be an underacheiver.

Hence the "live body" analogy.

Joe is going to be just as much a handful for Hopkins as Hopkins is for Joe. No one really studies Joe & gives him credit for being crafty...they lump it in with him being awkward...or ridiculously enough...sloppy.

These are the same people that always called Joe's style ugly & awkward. After he beat Kessler...who'm those people said he would lose to...they downgraded Joe to sloppy.

I am, like some of my fellow posters, eager to see what Joe is downgraded to after he handles Hopkins.

back Wacko you make some good points and i totally agree with this comment you made.

Joe is going to be just as much a handful for Hopkins as Hopkins is for Joe.

I totally agree with this Calzaghe's workrate and like you said angles will give Hopkins trouble but also Hopkins aggressive and rough style will disturb Calzaghe's rythm im looking forward to this fight but unfortunately i think it will be very messy fight and horrible to watch but it still needs to happen.

I've always liked Calzaghe i was starting to lose my patient with him fighting Bika then Manfredo but after beating Kessler he has restored my faith in him i think he has been very unlucky that there hasn't been any big names in his weight class but he is finally getting the recognition he deserves now from all over the world lets assume he beats Hopkins then what would his last fight be ?? against Jones ??

[Wacko3205]

...lets assume he beats Hopkins then what would his last fight be ?? against Jones ??

Laugh all you want...but YES! Roy Jones jr.

You have to look at boxing from a fan's perspective & a network's point of view.

The casual public will come back for Tito...because let's face it...Tito put's asses in seats...no matter how far he's fallen from grace.

The thought process on Tito is that he still has his great equalizer & that he just can't compete with accomplished technical boxers.

Jones was a speedster & a natural athelete...he's fallen from that some...so the fight is actually a legit contest in many fan's eyes.

All Jones has to do is blast Tito out down half of the stretch...& he's back. The networks will push it that way, the fighters will push it that way, & the fans...especially devotees...will buy it that way.

Joe could capitalize on a win over Jones that way.

[superheavyrhun]

In rough untidy fights Calzaghe hasn't faired that well in the past look at Reid fight that was untidy and very rough fight and Reid hit Calzaghe over and over with right hands and was rocking and reeling Calzaghe plenty of times and imo it was a draw the Salem fight yes Calzaghe won clearly but had some bad moments like being dropped with vicious over hand right right on the chin and the Bika fight Calzaghe was also roughed up pretty bad Hopkins will make this fight very untidy and rough up Calzaghe on inside i think Calzaghe wins based on his workrate but Hopkins even though he is old can still get Calzaghe off his rythm and be very tough test for Calzaghe i think it will be one of Calzaghe's hardest fights.

Can't disagree there...but I still say that Calzaghe's gonna be the most "live body" that the Nard has been tossed in with for years & it's going to be a whoooooooooooooole lot more level playing field than he's traveled down in his last 5 fights.

He'll be in against someone faster, stronger, & more angular than anyone he's faced...that's another thing that's going to be bad for Hopkins.

While Wright was the best out of the list that he's fought over the last 3 or 4 years...Wright was waaaaaaaaay outta his weight class & came in...no other way to say it...fat & flabby.

Tarver? The same...even though I think that Hopkins totally took Tarver out of his came plan...what game plan has Tarver really ever had?

Taylor? I still believe that Taylor lost the first fight...the second one...he pulled out...but it wasn't by a stretch & Taylor has proven to be an underacheiver.

Hence the "live body" analogy.

Joe is going to be just as much a handful for Hopkins as Hopkins is for Joe. No one really studies Joe & gives him credit for being crafty...they lump it in with him being awkward...or ridiculously enough...sloppy.

These are the same people that always called Joe's style ugly & awkward. After he beat Kessler...who'm those people said he would lose to...they downgraded Joe to sloppy.

I am, like some of my fellow posters, eager to see what Joe is downgraded to after he handles Hopkins.

back Wacko you make some good points and i totally agree with this comment you made.

Joe is going to be just as much a handful for Hopkins as Hopkins is for Joe.

I totally agree with this Calzaghe's workrate and like you said angles will give Hopkins trouble but also Hopkins aggressive and rough style will disturb Calzaghe's rythm im looking forward to this fight but unfortunately i think it will be very messy fight and horrible to watch but it still needs to happen.

I've always liked Calzaghe i was starting to lose my patient with him fighting Bika then Manfredo but after beating Kessler he has restored my faith in him i think he has been very unlucky that there hasn't been any big names in his weight class but he is finally getting the recognition he deserves now from all over the world lets assume he beats Hopkins then what would his last fight be ?? against Jones ??

Well said Ice, that's pretty much summed up what I think the situation would be as well, and I think we all felt frustrated with his opposition after the Lacy fight. Calzaghe v Hopkins could well be a generation-definer of a fight, with two guys going at it to probably cement an all-time p4p great status, and while they both could lay claim to it at present, a win over the other in this fight would carve it in stone.

[ICB]

...lets assume he beats Hopkins then what would his last fight be ?? against Jones ??

Laugh all you want...but YES! Roy Jones jr.

You have to look at boxing from a fan's perspective & a network's point of view.

The casual public will come back for Tito...because let's face it...Tito put's asses in seats...no matter how far he's fallen from grace.

The thought process on Tito is that he still has his great equalizer & that he just can't compete with accomplished technical boxers.

Jones was a speedster & a natural athelete...he's fallen from that some...so the fight is actually a legit contest in many fan's eyes.

All Jones has to do is blast Tito out down half of the stretch...& he's back. The networks will push it that way, the fighters will push it that way, & the fans...especially devotees...will buy it that way.

Joe could capitalize on a win over Jones that way.

Very well put Wacko i owe you 3 ccs now i believe.

[ICB]

In rough untidy fights Calzaghe hasn't faired that well in the past look at Reid fight that was untidy and very rough fight and Reid hit Calzaghe over and over with right hands and was rocking and reeling Calzaghe plenty of times and imo it was a draw the Salem fight yes Calzaghe won clearly but had some bad moments like being dropped with vicious over hand right right on the chin and the Bika fight Calzaghe was also roughed up pretty bad Hopkins will make this fight very untidy and rough up Calzaghe on inside i think Calzaghe wins based on his workrate but Hopkins even though he is old can still get Calzaghe off his rythm and be very tough test for Calzaghe i think it will be one of Calzaghe's hardest fights.

Can't disagree there...but I still say that Calzaghe's gonna be the most "live body" that the Nard has been tossed in with for years & it's going to be a whoooooooooooooole lot more level playing field than he's traveled down in his last 5 fights.

He'll be in against someone faster, stronger, & more angular than anyone he's faced...that's another thing that's going to be bad for Hopkins.

While Wright was the best out of the list that he's fought over the last 3 or 4 years...Wright was waaaaaaaaay outta his weight class & came in...no other way to say it...fat & flabby.

Tarver? The same...even though I think that Hopkins totally took Tarver out of his came plan...what game plan has Tarver really ever had?

Taylor? I still believe that Taylor lost the first fight...the second one...he pulled out...but it wasn't by a stretch & Taylor has proven to be an underacheiver.

Hence the "live body" analogy.

Joe is going to be just as much a handful for Hopkins as Hopkins is for Joe. No one really studies Joe & gives him credit for being crafty...they lump it in with him being awkward...or ridiculously enough...sloppy.

These are the same people that always called Joe's style ugly & awkward. After he beat Kessler...who'm those people said he would lose to...they downgraded Joe to sloppy.

I am, like some of my fellow posters, eager to see what Joe is downgraded to after he handles Hopkins.

back Wacko you make some good points and i totally agree with this comment you made.

Joe is going to be just as much a handful for Hopkins as Hopkins is for Joe.

I totally agree with this Calzaghe's workrate and like you said angles will give Hopkins trouble but also Hopkins aggressive and rough style will disturb Calzaghe's rythm im looking forward to this fight but unfortunately i think it will be very messy fight and horrible to watch but it still needs to happen.

I've always liked Calzaghe i was starting to lose my patient with him fighting Bika then Manfredo but after beating Kessler he has restored my faith in him i think he has been very unlucky that there hasn't been any big names in his weight class but he is finally getting the recognition he deserves now from all over the world lets assume he beats Hopkins then what would his last fight be ?? against Jones ??

Well said Ice, that's pretty much summed up what I think the situation would be as well, and I think we all felt frustrated with his opposition after the Lacy fight. Calzaghe v Hopkins could well be a generation-definer of a fight, with two guys going at it to probably cement an all-time p4p great status, and while they both could lay claim to it at present, a win over the other in this fight would carve it in stone.

mate totally agree i remember when i first joined here and i made a comment about Calzaghe you was the first one who gave me a cc.

[Wacko3205]

Calzaghe v Hopkins could well be a generation-definer of a fight, with two guys going at it to probably cement an all-time p4p great status, and while they both could lay claim to it at present, a win over the other in this fight would carve it in stone.

#762. Totally agree here...both men are headed for HOF status & P4P greats...but a visa versa win...that's the whole bag there.

[Bomp]

It's the logical fight for both guys. Wether its entertaining or not is irrelevent.

It will be messy, but imho Calzaghe will outwork him for the win, it would have been a great fight 5 years ago, and I'd give Hopkins a better shot then. Comparinsons with the Bika and Salem fights don't matter that much IMO since Joe proves to be up for the occasion in the bigger fights.

The only way I see Hopkins winning is if he gets Joe into a real dogfight with loads of fouls, even then he needs a dodgy ref to allow it, and even dodgier judges to score him the rounds. Don't get me wrong, it'll be a tough night for Joe, but he'll win the rounds on workrate. It's unlikely B-hop will be able to KO him too, though Calzaghe can be vulnerable to single punch counters, he can take them, and B-hop doesn't have the workrate anymore to wear him down.

[Fenster]

It's the logical fight for both guys. Wether its entertaining or not is irrelevent.

It will be messy, but imho Calzaghe will outwork him for the win, it would have been a great fight 5 years ago, and I'd give Hopkins a better shot then. Comparinsons with the Bika and Salem fights don't matter that much IMO since Joe proves to be up for the occasion in the bigger fights.

The only way I see Hopkins winning is if he gets Joe into a real dogfight with loads of fouls, even then he needs a dodgy ref to allow it, and even dodgier judges to score him the rounds. Don't get me wrong, it'll be a tough night for Joe, but he'll win the rounds on workrate. It's unlikely B-hop will be able to KO him too, though Calzaghe can be vulnerable to single punch counters, he can take them, and B-hop doesn't have the workrate anymore to wear him down.

I think again, against Kessler, Calzaghe proved just how true that is.

Calzaghe don't look good in fights where the other guy is spoiling, making it messy and ugly - but who does?

Hopkins is the master of ugly, but Calzaghe wouldn't be entering the fight in the dark as he was with those lesser guys, so huge difference.