Who's The Best

[mikeeod]

I can't think of many 147 pounders in the history of the sport who could've beaten Hearns the night Leonard came from behind for the stoppage. Maybe Robinson would've beaten Hearns, but I honestly can't think of one other welter in HISTORY who could've won that night. So, Ray beat one of the greatest lightweights (Duran), Welterweights (Hearns), and Middleweights (Hagler) in the history of the sport. Floyd's win over Chico Corrales and Hatton were his two best in my opinion, but he beat some solid competition during his career (more solid wins than Ray or Roy in my opinion). Roy looked unbeatable vs. Montell Griffin and James Toney, but didn't have as big a single win as the other two in my opinion.

Leonard was amazing the night he beat Hearns and Jones and Floyd do not have that name on their record. Jones did beat Toney and Hopkins but they are not as great as Hearns was that night. Leonard had to dig deep to win and probably ended his career with the eye damage caused.

Feel that Toney was the better win for Roy, as (we've discussed this before) I feel like Hop was green at the time and not the complete fighter he became in his prime.

[Master]

I can't think of many 147 pounders in the history of the sport who could've beaten Hearns the night Leonard came from behind for the stoppage. Maybe Robinson would've beaten Hearns, but I honestly can't think of one other welter in HISTORY who could've won that night. So, Ray beat one of the greatest lightweights (Duran), Welterweights (Hearns), and Middleweights (Hagler) in the history of the sport. Floyd's win over Chico Corrales and Hatton were his two best in my opinion, but he beat some solid competition during his career (more solid wins than Ray or Roy in my opinion). Roy looked unbeatable vs. Montell Griffin and James Toney, but didn't have as big a single win as the other two in my opinion.

Leonard was amazing the night he beat Hearns and Jones and Floyd do not have that name on their record. Jones did beat Toney and Hopkins but they are not as great as Hearns was that night. Leonard had to dig deep to win and probably ended his career with the eye damage caused.

Feel that Toney was the better win for Roy, as (we've discussed this before) I feel like Hop was green at the time and not the complete fighter he became in his prime.

You have got me thinking now that a great athlete (Jones) could beat a great boxer (Hopkins) which does not sit right with me.

[mikeeod]

I can't think of many 147 pounders in the history of the sport who could've beaten Hearns the night Leonard came from behind for the stoppage. Maybe Robinson would've beaten Hearns, but I honestly can't think of one other welter in HISTORY who could've won that night. So, Ray beat one of the greatest lightweights (Duran), Welterweights (Hearns), and Middleweights (Hagler) in the history of the sport. Floyd's win over Chico Corrales and Hatton were his two best in my opinion, but he beat some solid competition during his career (more solid wins than Ray or Roy in my opinion). Roy looked unbeatable vs. Montell Griffin and James Toney, but didn't have as big a single win as the other two in my opinion.

Leonard was amazing the night he beat Hearns and Jones and Floyd do not have that name on their record. Jones did beat Toney and Hopkins but they are not as great as Hearns was that night. Leonard had to dig deep to win and probably ended his career with the eye damage caused.

Feel that Toney was the better win for Roy, as (we've discussed this before) I feel like Hop was green at the time and not the complete fighter he became in his prime.

You have got me thinking now that a great athlete (Jones) could beat a great boxer (Hopkins) which does not sit right with me.

I think Roy's unorthodox style and physical gifts would give technicians/fundamentally sound fighters a very difficult time. The first Hop fight was close for that time frame (8-4 rounds), and Hop closed the gap as the rounds went on. I feel like Hop learned a lot during that fight and changed his style specifically for a Roy rematch. Not saying it would have been a guaranteed win for Hop, but the 2001 Hop gives Roy a very tough fight in my opinion.

Roy's kryptonite, in my opinion, would be a Vernon Forrest/Antonio Tarver type of fighter. Someone with a great jab, solid fundamentals, who had the threat of a big punch behind that jab. I always feel that guys like Michael Nunn, Frankie Liles...etc., would have given Roy fits with their styles. Potentially a dirty, mauling Hop would have also (in my opinion).

[GaMo]

Honestly, I don't recall Roy ever cleaning out a division

He held just about every belt available at 175
He held the WBC, WBA, IBF, IBO, IBF, WBF, IBA
And Ring Magazine titles at Light-Heavyweight
The WBO and WBU are the only belts he didn't own
But he was quite clearly the man at 175.

Darius was the lineal champ and they shared the division and Roy never beat him. Do I think Roy would have beaten him? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that he didn't clean the division out. Hagler, Hopkins, JCC, Duran, Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis...etc., all cleaned their divisions out.

Michalczewski never fought outside of Europe
And Boxing in Germany during the 90s was so corrupt
Just look at Sven Ottke's career and you'll see it
Biased refereeing and blind judges.

I'm sure Roy would've welcomed him in America
But after the Olympics Roy wasn't keen on traveling
And Germany was the last place you'd want to go back then.

Not saying you are wrong on your points, but fact still remains that he never cleaned out the division. Was the same thing at 160 and 168 as well. I thought Roy was clearly the best, but you still have to beat the other top fighters in your division to prove it. I thought GMan was by far the better fighter than Nigel Benn, and look how that turned out. Same with Tyson vs. Douglas. Just because you are favored or are perceived to be the guaranteed winner doesn't mean that it is a foregone conclusion.

He definitely didn't clean out 160, 168 or Heavyweight
But he beat the best at 168 (Toney) and the best at 160 (Hopkins)
Guys like Eubank and Benn never seemed in a rush to fight him
Ottke and Calzaghe never left home. At 175 Jones was the man
So much so that I think he'd have an easy night with Andre Ward.

[mikeeod]

Honestly, I don't recall Roy ever cleaning out a division

He held just about every belt available at 175
He held the WBC, WBA, IBF, IBO, IBF, WBF, IBA
And Ring Magazine titles at Light-Heavyweight
The WBO and WBU are the only belts he didn't own
But he was quite clearly the man at 175.

Darius was the lineal champ and they shared the division and Roy never beat him. Do I think Roy would have beaten him? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that he didn't clean the division out. Hagler, Hopkins, JCC, Duran, Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis...etc., all cleaned their divisions out.

Michalczewski never fought outside of Europe
And Boxing in Germany during the 90s was so corrupt
Just look at Sven Ottke's career and you'll see it
Biased refereeing and blind judges.

I'm sure Roy would've welcomed him in America
But after the Olympics Roy wasn't keen on traveling
And Germany was the last place you'd want to go back then.

Not saying you are wrong on your points, but fact still remains that he never cleaned out the division. Was the same thing at 160 and 168 as well. I thought Roy was clearly the best, but you still have to beat the other top fighters in your division to prove it. I thought GMan was by far the better fighter than Nigel Benn, and look how that turned out. Same with Tyson vs. Douglas. Just because you are favored or are perceived to be the guaranteed winner doesn't mean that it is a foregone conclusion.

He definitely didn't clean out 160, 168 or Heavyweight
But he beat the best at 168 (Toney) and the best at 160 (Hopkins)
Guys like Eubank and Benn never seemed in a rush to fight him
Ottke and Calzaghe never left home. At 175 Jones was the man
So much so that I think he'd have an easy night with Andre Ward.

Agree with most of what you say. I think Ward is the modern day Hopkins, so again, I don't think Roy is a guaranteed winner or has an easy night with Ward. Ward and Hop both are masters at shutting down the other guy's offense and making him fight an uncomfortable fight. Ward is bigger than Hop, so that makes it even more difficult for Roy. Would be a great match up in my opinion.

[Master]

I can't think of many 147 pounders in the history of the sport who could've beaten Hearns the night Leonard came from behind for the stoppage. Maybe Robinson would've beaten Hearns, but I honestly can't think of one other welter in HISTORY who could've won that night. So, Ray beat one of the greatest lightweights (Duran), Welterweights (Hearns), and Middleweights (Hagler) in the history of the sport. Floyd's win over Chico Corrales and Hatton were his two best in my opinion, but he beat some solid competition during his career (more solid wins than Ray or Roy in my opinion). Roy looked unbeatable vs. Montell Griffin and James Toney, but didn't have as big a single win as the other two in my opinion.

Leonard was amazing the night he beat Hearns and Jones and Floyd do not have that name on their record. Jones did beat Toney and Hopkins but they are not as great as Hearns was that night. Leonard had to dig deep to win and probably ended his career with the eye damage caused.

Feel that Toney was the better win for Roy, as (we've discussed this before) I feel like Hop was green at the time and not the complete fighter he became in his prime.

You have got me thinking now that a great athlete (Jones) could beat a great boxer (Hopkins) which does not sit right with me.

I think Roy's unorthodox style and physical gifts would give technicians/fundamentally sound fighters a very difficult time. The first Hop fight was close for that time frame (8-4 rounds), and Hop closed the gap as the rounds went on. I feel like Hop learned a lot during that fight and changed his style specifically for a Roy rematch. Not saying it would have been a guaranteed win for Hop, but the 2001 Hop gives Roy a very tough fight in my opinion.

Roy's kryptonite, in my opinion, would be a Vernon Forrest/Antonio Tarver type of fighter. Someone with a great jab, solid fundamentals, who had the threat of a big punch behind that jab. I always feel that guys like Michael Nunn, Frankie Liles...etc., would have given Roy fits with their styles. Potentially a dirty, mauling Hop would have also (in my opinion).

Roy beat all styles to me, the tall rangy southpaw (I forget his name and was no Nunn or Liles) was completely outclassed. In fact so was Virgil Hill.

I think Leonard would beat Jones p4p he had a better jab and power also his concentration and focus was the best.

[powerpuncher]

I can't think of many 147 pounders in the history of the sport who could've beaten Hearns the night Leonard came from behind for the stoppage. Maybe Robinson would've beaten Hearns, but I honestly can't think of one other welter in HISTORY who could've won that night. So, Ray beat one of the greatest lightweights (Duran), Welterweights (Hearns), and Middleweights (Hagler) in the history of the sport. Floyd's win over Chico Corrales and Hatton were his two best in my opinion, but he beat some solid competition during his career (more solid wins than Ray or Roy in my opinion). Roy looked unbeatable vs. Montell Griffin and James Toney, but didn't have as big a single win as the other two in my opinion.

Leonard was amazing the night he beat Hearns and Jones and Floyd do not have that name on their record. Jones did beat Toney and Hopkins but they are not as great as Hearns was that night. Leonard had to dig deep to win and probably ended his career with the eye damage caused.

Feel that Toney was the better win for Roy, as (we've discussed this before) I feel like Hop was green at the time and not the complete fighter he became in his prime.

You have got me thinking now that a great athlete (Jones) could beat a great boxer (Hopkins) which does not sit right with me.

I think Roy's unorthodox style and physical gifts would give technicians/fundamentally sound fighters a very difficult time. The first Hop fight was close for that time frame (8-4 rounds), and Hop closed the gap as the rounds went on. I feel like Hop learned a lot during that fight and changed his style specifically for a Roy rematch. Not saying it would have been a guaranteed win for Hop, but the 2001 Hop gives Roy a very tough fight in my opinion.

Roy's kryptonite, in my opinion, would be a Vernon Forrest/Antonio Tarver type of fighter. Someone with a great jab, solid fundamentals, who had the threat of a big punch behind that jab. I always feel that guys like Michael Nunn, Frankie Liles...etc., would have given Roy fits with their styles. Potentially a dirty, mauling Hop would have also (in my opinion).

If I remember correctly, didn't jones have a broken hand in the bhop fight? I could be wrong

[GaMo]

I can't think of many 147 pounders in the history of the sport who could've beaten Hearns the night Leonard came from behind for the stoppage. Maybe Robinson would've beaten Hearns, but I honestly can't think of one other welter in HISTORY who could've won that night. So, Ray beat one of the greatest lightweights (Duran), Welterweights (Hearns), and Middleweights (Hagler) in the history of the sport. Floyd's win over Chico Corrales and Hatton were his two best in my opinion, but he beat some solid competition during his career (more solid wins than Ray or Roy in my opinion). Roy looked unbeatable vs. Montell Griffin and James Toney, but didn't have as big a single win as the other two in my opinion.

Leonard was amazing the night he beat Hearns and Jones and Floyd do not have that name on their record. Jones did beat Toney and Hopkins but they are not as great as Hearns was that night. Leonard had to dig deep to win and probably ended his career with the eye damage caused.

Feel that Toney was the better win for Roy, as (we've discussed this before) I feel like Hop was green at the time and not the complete fighter he became in his prime.

You have got me thinking now that a great athlete (Jones) could beat a great boxer (Hopkins) which does not sit right with me.

I think Roy's unorthodox style and physical gifts would give technicians/fundamentally sound fighters a very difficult time. The first Hop fight was close for that time frame (8-4 rounds), and Hop closed the gap as the rounds went on. I feel like Hop learned a lot during that fight and changed his style specifically for a Roy rematch. Not saying it would have been a guaranteed win for Hop, but the 2001 Hop gives Roy a very tough fight in my opinion.

Roy's kryptonite, in my opinion, would be a Vernon Forrest/Antonio Tarver type of fighter. Someone with a great jab, solid fundamentals, who had the threat of a big punch behind that jab. I always feel that guys like Michael Nunn, Frankie Liles...etc., would have given Roy fits with their styles. Potentially a dirty, mauling Hop would have also (in my opinion).

If I remember correctly, didn't jones have a broken hand in the bhop fight? I could be wrong

"When I beat Bernard Hopkins and won the IBF
The right was hurt, beat him with the left."

Y'all musta forgot!

[imp]

Ward and Floyd were undefeated.

We must take that into account.

[imp]

A prime Roy would beat money mayweather but would he beat the pretty boy version?

[TitoFan]

SRL for me.

Benitez
Duran
Hearns
Hagler



Doesn't get much more impressive than that.

[Fenster]

He definitely didn't clean out 160, 168 or Heavyweight
But he beat the best at 168 (Toney) and the best at 160 (Hopkins)
Guys like Eubank and Benn never seemed in a rush to fight him
Ottke and Calzaghe never left home. At 175 Jones was the man
So much so that I think he'd have an easy night with Andre Ward.

Roy never left home either (forget the excuses, I know them all, just stating a fact). The only reason he had the IBF/WBA titles at LH was because Michalczewski was stripped after beating Hill. The Ring changed their rules to gift/promote Roy.

So unless you believe Americans should get special dispensation for being American Roy should have travelled to challenge the true champ - Michalczewski.

[GaMo]

He definitely didn't clean out 160, 168 or Heavyweight
But he beat the best at 168 (Toney) and the best at 160 (Hopkins)
Guys like Eubank and Benn never seemed in a rush to fight him
Ottke and Calzaghe never left home. At 175 Jones was the man
So much so that I think he'd have an easy night with Andre Ward.

Roy never left home either (forget the excuses, I know them all, just stating a fact). The only reason he had the IBF/WBA titles at LH was because Michalczewski was stripped after beating Hill. The Ring changed their rules to gift/promote Roy.

So unless you believe Americans should get special dispensation for being American Roy should have travelled to challenge the true champ - Michalczewski.

Fair point but like I said, Germany was corrupt back then
Extremely bad judging and unprofessional refereeing
Meant that Jones would have to have scored a knockout to win.

Just look at Sven Ottke's unbeaten title reign as an example

[Dark Lord Al]

For talent ,achievement and power this guy was better than all 3.
He once floored David Haye something Wlad could not do.

[Fenster]

He definitely didn't clean out 160, 168 or Heavyweight
But he beat the best at 168 (Toney) and the best at 160 (Hopkins)
Guys like Eubank and Benn never seemed in a rush to fight him
Ottke and Calzaghe never left home. At 175 Jones was the man
So much so that I think he'd have an easy night with Andre Ward.

Roy never left home either (forget the excuses, I know them all, just stating a fact). The only reason he had the IBF/WBA titles at LH was because Michalczewski was stripped after beating Hill. The Ring changed their rules to gift/promote Roy.

So unless you believe Americans should get special dispensation for being American Roy should have travelled to challenge the true champ - Michalczewski.

Fair point but like I said, Germany was corrupt back then
Extremely bad judging and unprofessional refereeing
Meant that Jones would have to have scored a knockout to win.

Just look at Sven Ottke's unbeaten title reign as an example

I've seen a few Ottke "robberies" that weren't robberies, they were close/debatable decisions that he had every right to win. People claim "robbery" about disputed decisions week in week out, especially when they haven't seen the fights they're talking about.

Foreign fighters in America claim it's corrupt/inept when they lose too.