Please take the time to do this for you and your families future health.

[Gandalf]

VC, there might be 'thousands' of seeds, but when a few companies control the vast majority of seed distribution and then impose stringent rules on things that can and do grow naturally thus seed, then you are into dangerous territory. I don't understand why you are so defensive about monopoly control.

As for farmers being given a rough time by Monsanta. Again, there are articles all over the place saying that this is indeed what they do.

Also when it comes to commodities markets, again you seem to be putting your head in the sand a bit. Clinton deregulated the markets and thus financial players started playing games. Goldman Sachs and many other notorious financial institutions have made a lot of money from playing games with food. Again, on the record. Commodities markets are prey to rampant speculation that didn't exist for much of this century.

Weather will always be a factor, but as I keep stating, it is amazing how these companies are making exorbitant profits on 'superproducts' that are seemingly not so super after all. The seed prices are rampant and the markets more volatile than ever. However, anyone who says so is always anti America it couldn't be that the corporations involved are American and it was the US government that deregulated markets that were working well.

[VictorCharlie]

Miles,

If your posts are just "The U.S. Agriculture per Miles" then fine but you are making some statements as fact that at a minimum I'm not familiar with the supporting references (I'm not just trying to be contrary either. If you have some facts I'm not aware of then I genuinely would like to read them). There is no shortage of options for farmers it is just that Monsanto's products have changed the way agri-business in the US is run. There are a lot of legal issues between farmers and Monsanto but much of that stems from Monsanto protecting their patent which as I said expires in 2014. Speculation does play a role and while I'm familiar with Clinton's deregulation of the financial sector by repealing Glass Steagal I'm not familiar with it in the agriculture sector. So please inform me. All that being said we had pretty stellar job growth under Clinton in the 90s. If the products weren't superior then farmers wouldn't buy them and as I showed earlier Monsanto's price increases have pushed farmers away from them versus simply extorting them. I'm not accusing you of being anti-american....in this instance but I think you just aren't as informed on American specific issues as you think you are.

[Andre]

Interesting conversation too.

Got off track slightly though,this was about closing off loopholes in old laws in Europe allowing people with huge resources to gain ownership of popular grown natural seed types not gm ones. Which would force the market in a way that would make those seed types eventually untouchable and if you had your own stock and seed already, eventually you would still have to prove it legally against them and we know who would win so thats not defensible against their lawyers.

Mansanto in 2005 took over the majority of USa grown produce by buying Seminis group.

Seminis then controlled 40 percent of the U.S. vegetable seed market and 20 percent of the world market—supplying the genetics for 55 percent of the lettuce on U.S. supermarket shelves, 75 percent of the tomatoes, and 85 percent of the peppers, with strong holdings in beans, cucumbers, squash, melons, broccoli, cabbage, spinach and peas. The company’s biggest revenue source comes from tomato and peppers seeds, followed by cucumbers and beans.


That sort of forced many organic growers into niche markets and away from the more popular varieties (which has other benefits for them and us as consumers, theres no denying that).

Still, the cornering of the market legally by such giants has its obvious mass product benefits and affordability to the masses but in the long run we'll all pay (my belief is we'll pay in health via their chemical practices in addition but we'll save in the pocket).

Be nice to able to choose which type of veg as well as organic or gm instead of being forced out into the rarer types at more expense and the reverse occurring where people cant afford choice.

Also these mass companies using their own chemicals: they know the use is accumulative in animals and our human system and drops our natural immunity levels until eventually the weaker part of the natural system becomes a cancer risk (I buy into that belief).
Im not linking chemicals to growing for any reason other than its their business practice for profit.

[VictorCharlie]

I say grow your own. We have a pretty vibrant herb garden and tomato harvest. When we lived in the home we own we had a pretty big garden. That is something I miss now that we rent again.

[Gandalf]

Miles,

If your posts are just "The U.S. Agriculture per Miles" then fine but you are making some statements as fact that at a minimum I'm not familiar with the supporting references (I'm not just trying to be contrary either. If you have some facts I'm not aware of then I genuinely would like to read them). There is no shortage of options for farmers it is just that Monsanto's products have changed the way agri-business in the US is run. There are a lot of legal issues between farmers and Monsanto but much of that stems from Monsanto protecting their patent which as I said expires in 2014. Speculation does play a role and while I'm familiar with Clinton's deregulation of the financial sector by repealing Glass Steagal I'm not familiar with it in the agriculture sector. So please inform me. All that being said we had pretty stellar job growth under Clinton in the 90s. If the products weren't superior then farmers wouldn't buy them and as I showed earlier Monsanto's price increases have pushed farmers away from them versus simply extorting them. I'm not accusing you of being anti-american....in this instance but I think you just aren't as informed on American specific issues as you think you are.

With deregulation the food commodities markets have grown exponentially. They were small pretty well controlled markets prior to Clinton, but since have ballooned and swollen to horrible degrees. Some of the people who I wouldn't trust will argue that you cannot prove the link between prices and speculation, but others will say quite the opposite and that it is perhaps a leading factor.

I'm not an expert on agriculture and don't know that much, but it is something I became interested in a few months ago in a couple of documentaries looking at seeds and farmers in America. I then did a little bit of reading for myself and that is all I know. I think I was in the same boat as most until the documentary in that most are simply not aware about the food and practices that go on in providing food. The same goes for a lot of areas in life. Most live in quiet ignorance and just hope someone is looking out for them, but seemingly nobody really is and that is why Andre is cool for starting this thread. It is something constructive.

This article outlines some of the issues with deregulation and commodities markets, but again I am not a super expert. I read news stories for about an hour everyday and don't bookmark every interesting thing I read. My field is the work I do and news and posts about politics are just a hobby horse. I put forth what I know, but find it hard to post links and stuff sometimes and especially in the final week of a semester when even this post has me putting down 30 papers that should really be getting graded.

UN Pleads for Curbing Speculation in Food Commodities

And sure, if people would seperate the corporatism and the politics which I do always bang on about, then they would see I'm not all that anti-American. If we are talking literature and music, I am into America a lot, but when it comes to old farts and their war rhetoric and lies. Well, I am not so enamoured.

[Andre]

I say grow your own. We have a pretty vibrant herb garden and tomato harvest. When we lived in the home we own we had a pretty big garden. That is something I miss now that we rent again.

We are lucky here, we do that.

[Andre]

Its funny though down the road is a large commercial grower they are on the high ground side of the road ,over the road a guy rented a block and sold organic veg, turned out it got a bit tainted just on the water run off. So he went back to his other area away from them. (they also use chemically treated sewage water just to water the stuff).
We have to watch out for Chinese produce for similar reasons they are a step or more further behind us in regulations and yet we are ripping out and burning our fruit trees because of cheaper imports. Soon those prices will soar.The Chinese had pollinate their pear trees with people and brushes because the bees are all dead from their over use of chemicals.Fuck and we lost thousands of acres of trees last week.

Its madness,governments all over the show trade off imports for export rights and shake hands on deals that cross over from industry to mining to agriculture without balancing the future of the middle men. Big business stocks and shares its all it is about.

[VictorCharlie]

Miles,

This has been entirely too congenial discussion. Surely one of us should call the other a cunt to maintain the status quo.

[Gandalf]

Ha! You cunt!

I am just being jocular there. It's nice to have a quieter discussion and it is a subject that interests me as it does seem to be a growing issue for the future. Get it? Growing issue!