Nigel Benn on Naseem Hamed

[Munkymagic]

I love Benn too, but remember when he and Eubank did the TV special and Toney was with Mickey Rourke via satellite. Benn tried to put Toney in his place by realing off his list of American conquests and Toney laughed at him that was pretty funny.

Wasn't that the one with Jonathan Ross where it ended by Toney tearing his earpiece out and just walking away. Eubank sat in silence and when wossy pressed chris on what he thought of toney he made some comment like "the man just insulted my mother...he doesn't even know her"

In the end Benn and Eubank shook hands and Benn whipsrede something in Eubanks ear.

Amusing

[bigragu]

Robinson was WBO champion, Vasquez was WBA champion, Johnson was IBF champion, Medina, Kelly and Mccullough were former world champions - I don't see anybody he could've fought and didn't except Eric Morales and that fight never happened coz he lost to MAB

yeah...It's kinda hard to have 15 title defences and not fight some quality opponents.....I always say people look at a fighters last 3 fights and judge him from that...unless you're ALI.....Naz was a very good fighter....and backed up everything he said until MAB.....but in his defence MAB is a helluva fighter....no drop because he lost to MAB...I'm not a Naz fan but I think he was better than most want to give him credit for....

[The_Mac10]

Naz never stepped up until the Barrera fight.

In 95 and 96 he was mentioning fighting Morales and Barrera...What happened to that? Took him 6 years to grow some balls.

His best win was over Kelley, I reckon(ironically, Kev was the WBU champ at the time). And he got dropped what, three times?

Look, Naz was explosive back in the mid and even towards the late 90's, he woulda caused any of the top guys problems back at his best, but he must've been worried about getting exposed. Warren would have got him the big defining fights eventually, but they split, and Naz went back to the Augie Sanchez type opponents.

His best win was Steve Robinson. Everybody that never followed Naz's career doesn't think he stepped up until the Barerra fight. But Robinson was considered a huge step up and Naseem just made it an easy nights work.

Robinson had something like 9 losses, and was ordinary. Robinson! Pull the other one.

Sure, it was a step-up from who else he was facing at the time, but overall Robinson was cooked.

[The_Mac10]

Robinson was WBO champion, Vasquez was WBA champion, Johnson was IBF champion, Medina, Kelly and Mccullough were former world champions - I don't see anybody he could've fought and didn't except Eric Morales and that fight never happened coz he lost to MAB

Robinson, as I said, was nothing special, had been beaten already second-tier fighters (albeit a couple of years earlier), and he was PATHETIC in the Naz fight. Not to be disrespectful, but I recall him failing to mount even an effort. Prince was brilliant, but Robinson looked like a total bum in there. He didn't try anything, he came with nothing.

You're throwing these names at me, these alphabet champs. It doesn't mean anything. Everyone knew the Barreras, the Morales, the McKinneys were out there and they were at the top but Naz snubbed them. Just as he snubbed a Mayweather offer back in 2000.

[BIG H]

Naz never stepped up until the Barrera fight.

In 95 and 96 he was mentioning fighting Morales and Barrera...What happened to that? Took him 6 years to grow some balls.

His best win was over Kelley, I reckon(ironically, Kev was the WBU champ at the time). And he got dropped what, three times?

Look, Naz was explosive back in the mid and even towards the late 90's, he woulda caused any of the top guys problems back at his best, but he must've been worried about getting exposed. Warren would have got him the big defining fights eventually, but they split, and Naz went back to the Augie Sanchez type opponents.

His best win was Steve Robinson. Everybody that never followed Naz's career doesn't think he stepped up until the Barerra fight. But Robinson was considered a huge step up and Naseem just made it an easy nights work.

Robinson had something like 9 losses, and was ordinary. Robinson! Pull the other one.

Sure, it was a step-up from who else he was facing at the time, but overall Robinson was cooked.

You obvously know about as much about Robinson as you have read on his record - and not much else. Robinsons early losses are due to the fact that he was just a journeyman taking fights at 24 hours notice and never really taking the game serious as anything other than making a few quid. When he got drafted in at late notice to fight for the title he took his chance and went on to become an excellent fighter. He wasn't Naz's best opponent, but he was very good and honest world champion and very underrrated. Had he had the opportunities Naz had right from the start he may would of become one of the greatest fighter ever to come out of Wales imo

[The_Mac10]

Naz never stepped up until the Barrera fight.

In 95 and 96 he was mentioning fighting Morales and Barrera...What happened to that? Took him 6 years to grow some balls.

His best win was over Kelley, I reckon(ironically, Kev was the WBU champ at the time). And he got dropped what, three times?

Look, Naz was explosive back in the mid and even towards the late 90's, he woulda caused any of the top guys problems back at his best, but he must've been worried about getting exposed. Warren would have got him the big defining fights eventually, but they split, and Naz went back to the Augie Sanchez type opponents.

His best win was Steve Robinson. Everybody that never followed Naz's career doesn't think he stepped up until the Barerra fight. But Robinson was considered a huge step up and Naseem just made it an easy nights work.

Robinson had something like 9 losses, and was ordinary. Robinson! Pull the other one.

Sure, it was a step-up from who else he was facing at the time, but overall Robinson was cooked.

You obvously know about as much about Robinson as you have read on his record - and not much else. Robinsons early losses are due to the fact that he was just a journeyman taking fights at 24 hours notice and never really taking the game serious as anything other than making a few quid. When he got drafted in at late notice to fight for the title he took his chance and went on to become an excellent fighter. He wasn't Naz's best opponent, but he was very good and honest world champion and very underrrated. Had he had the opportunities Naz had right from the start he may would of become one of the greatest fighter ever to come out of Wales imo

The fact is he put up a terrible effort against Naz, and what did he do after that fight? When he stepped up again, he got beat.

I'm not dissing Robinson, in terms of, I think he was a good fighter. But you're making out like he is this shining beacon on Hamed's record. He's not. Hamed beat him, like he shouldv'e.

[X]

Had he had the opportunities Naz had right from the start he may would of become one of the greatest fighter ever to come out of Wales imo

But nowhere near Jimmy Wilde, Tommy Farr, Joe Calzaghe or any number of cardiff city fans.

[BIG H]

Robinson was WBO champion, Vasquez was WBA champion, Johnson was IBF champion, Medina, Kelly and Mccullough were former world champions - I don't see anybody he could've fought and didn't except Eric Morales and that fight never happened coz he lost to MAB

Robinson, as I said, was nothing special, had been beaten already second-tier fighters (albeit a couple of years earlier), and he was PATHETIC in the Naz fight. Not to be disrespectful, but I recall him failing to mount even an effort. Prince was brilliant, but Robinson looked like a total bum in there. He didn't try anything, he came with nothing.

You're throwing these names at me, these alphabet champs. It doesn't mean anything. Everyone knew the Barreras, the Morales, the McKinneys were out there and they were at the top but Naz snubbed them. Just as he snubbed a Mayweather offer back in 2000.

Please enlighten us to the offers that Naz snubbed

In 1997 -98 he was fighting world champions like Tom Johnson & Wilfredo Vasquez, MAB was losing to Junior Jones and Fighting Richie Wenton. Paul Lloyd and Pedro Torres & McKinney was losing to Espinosa and Bungu who Naz destroyed, so I think Hamed was mixing in pretty could comparitive company. I can't think of anybody he should've fought and didn't except Erik Morales

[The_Mac10]

Except for Morales? Are you kididng me?

As I said in a previous post, around 95' Naz was mentioning Barrera (Who was one of the very best super-bantamweights in the world at the time) after he destroyed the hapless foes he was endlessly knocking over. He said it would happen soon.

Marco didn't lose till what, late 96? Early 97? I can't remember. Either way if Hamed was so intent on fighting the very best he surely could have fought Barrera's victor Junior Jones. Did he? No.

Bungu did beat McKinney, but alas, styles make fights. McKinney beat the man, who beat the man (Jones) and should have topped Hamed's list of prospective opponents.

Instead he fights Kelley, suffers three knockdowns en route to a crushing 4th round KO, jets back to England, where he rests on his laurels. Come on. Take off the rose-tinted glasses.

[BIG H]

He did actually fight MAB did you know - and 2001 MAB was a lot better than the 1996/97 version losing to Junior Jones.....and who did Naz have the opportunity to fight but snub ?

From 97 onwards Hamed's opponents had a collective record of 386-29 (14 of those 29 losses were 2 guys)

He beat

Tom Johnson
Wilfredo Vasquez
Wayne McCullough
Vuyani Bungu
Kevin Kelly
Manuel Medina
Paul Ingle

.... All were current or former World champs and stand up againt Kennedy mc Fukkin Kinney

Fight naz didn't fight:

Morales - fight never was on the cards
JM Marquez - was fighting stiffs at that tiime and never moved to world class till 2003
Espinosa - over the hill!!!

No rose tinted glasses - just facts

[The_Mac10]

Yeah, I did know. DID YOU KNOW what happened?

Plus, the reason Hamed finally did accept it I reckon was because he watched the MAB-Morales fight, saw how reckless and open Barrera was when he came in, and felt he would walk into a bomb.

He didn't of course and Hamed got exposed once and for all.

My point was, why did Hamed say he wanted the fight, that's the one he wanted, then ducked out? Waited till a fledgling Barrera came upto 126, 6 years later?

As for the guys you mentioned. Hmm, let me see.

Johnson was fast approaching the twilight of his career. After Hamed it was downhill. That's my point. Mostly Naz caught these guys at the right time. When he actually did step up and fight the guys in their prime (McCullough, Medina) he had a much tougher time of it than most thought he would have. Hell, he could of got knocked out in that Medina fight at times, he got caught so much. If Manuel was a KO puncher Naz could well have lost his unbeaten record that night, he looked awful.

McCullough - good win. I like Wayne. But wasn't that his first fight at feather? He jumped weight after losing his super bantam strap, and Hamed's weight proved the difference. Plus of course, Wayne was too brave and come-forward for his own good. Stylistically there was only going to be one outcome there.

Kelley was a good win, as I said Hamed got dropped three times, and Kelley didn't even have an alphabet title, he was WBU champ, and I'd hazzard a guess at what, #5 in the division?

Ingle didn't even DESERVE that shot. Hamed should have been unifying, fighting the best in America, instead he's fighting a guy with barely 20 odd wins, and who just won the E.B.U title. Please!

And interesting that you mention JM Marquez. Naz ducked him like the plague. I can't remember the exact year, but I distinctly recall Marquez being Naz' mandatory at one point. Hamed shamelessly avoided him. And the only reason Juan stepped up in 2003 was because a little Philipine had the balls to give him a shot - and we saw that night why exactly he had been ducked for so long.

[BIG H]

Fair enuff - we aint gonna agree on this, but I will make 1 final post:

Do you really think that after seeing the fight with Morales that it was a cowardice decision by Hamed to fight MAB at that time? MAB was frightening in the 1st Morales fight, besides that the Hamed fight was 14 months after that anyway

Tom Johnson was 42-2 and unbeaten in 6 years and his only 2 defeats were a TD and an SD. He was coming off something like 12 defences of the title he had held for 4 years. Yeh he went down hill after that fight, but that was after he was destroyed for the 1st time in his career.

Don’t know why Naz would’ve avoided Marquez around that time, coz Marquez wasn’t operating at the same level and when he did step up in 1999 he got beat. Marquez peaked about 6 years after Naz did!!

And paul Ingle was a superb fighter as Medina and Jones found out, and went on to become IBF champ, his career was cut tragically short or imo he would’ve been a fantastic world champion

I have never claimed that Naz beat any "Greats" but who ever does "Greats" are "Great" coz they don't lose, and when Hamed came up against a "great" he fell short. What I don't agree with is that he ducked people. He fought everybody out there apart from Morales and Espinoto (and JMM who I have already said brought nothing to the party in 1997-98 whatsoever)

[The_Mac10]

You're right, I don't think we're going to agree.

When I made the point that Naz choose M.A.B on the basis of the first Morales fight, I knew you'd come back with that point. But as I said, Naz saw clear errors in Barrera's make-up - they were there to see. Took too many shots, waded in, left himself open. It also must've interested Hamed that Barrera had stayed at super-bantam for so long. That was his natural weight, he had been comfortable there. Perhaps Hamed thought the Mexican coming up to feather would give him a big advantage. Remember, Hamed's always been very strong, very physical (yeah, that body slam!). He's been in the trenches, he's heavy handed.

It's obvious to me that they choose that fight based on Barrera's style. Stylistically they felt he was tailor-made for Hamed - and who knows - perhaps THAT version of him was. But of course, Barrera was clever, and radically altered his style for that fight. Hamed was befuddled.

Either way, I know Tom Johnson's record at the time, and yes, impressive, but to me he was just another alphabet champ. He was hand-picked. I never recall him beating any top name before or AFTER Naz, save for Manuel Medina two years before Hamed.

Marquez was clearly class at the time. He's always been. Any self-respecting champ wouldv'e gave him a shot. Hamed should have. Afterall, Juan Manuel was his mandatory at one point (of that I'm sure) but Naz opted out.

Bottom line is - Hamed didn't duck people is nonsense. He did. He ducked MAB back in 95 when they coulda made it at super bantam, he ducked Marquez, he never sought out a Morales, hell he even ignored Mayweather when in 2000 Pretty Boy said he would take Naz on. Instead he took on a fledgling super-bantam and got schooled thoroughly in every department.

[BIG H]

You're right, I don't think we're going to agree.

When I made the point that Naz choose M.A.B on the basis of the first Morales fight, I knew you'd come back with that point. But as I said, Naz saw clear errors in Barrera's make-up - they were there to see. Took too many shots, waded in, left himself open. It also must've interested Hamed that Barrera had stayed at super-bantam for so long. That was his natural weight, he had been comfortable there. Perhaps Hamed thought the Mexican coming up to feather would give him a big advantage. Remember, Hamed's always been very strong, very physical (yeah, that body slam!). He's been in the trenches, he's heavy handed.

It's obvious to me that they choose that fight based on Barrera's style. Stylistically they felt he was tailor-made for Hamed - and who knows - perhaps THAT version of him was. But of course, Barrera was clever, and radically altered his style for that fight. Hamed was befuddled.

Either way, I know Tom Johnson's record at the time, and yes, impressive, but to me he was just another alphabet champ. He was hand-picked. I never recall him beating any top name before or AFTER Naz, save for Manuel Medina two years before Hamed.

Marquez was clearly class at the time. He's always been. Any self-respecting champ wouldv'e gave him a shot. Hamed should have. Afterall, Juan Manuel was his mandatory at one point (of that I'm sure) but Naz opted out.

Bottom line is - Hamed didn't duck people is nonsense. He did. He ducked MAB back in 95 when they coulda made it at super bantam, he ducked Marquez, he never sought out a Morales, hell he even ignored Mayweather when in 2000 Pretty Boy said he would take Naz on. Instead he took on a fledgling super-bantam and got schooled thoroughly in every department.

And yet after all of that Naz was favourite with every bookie round the world to beat Marco Antonio Barerra one of the p4p greats, so he was doing something right

Anyway like we have said agree to disagree

[The_Mac10]

Indeed. Debates like this are what the sites about.

But I wouldn't say Barrera was a p4p great before he fought Hamed.

And the bookies were blinded by Hamed's unbeaten record, his extravagant, cocky persona, and the fact that he was the natural featherweight. Hamed had a great P.R machine.