Ronaldinho

[Oggie]

i think garrincha was a better player than pele, pele stands out though cos of his strike rate.
but garrincha made half them goals possible and he had a gammy leg which looked weird but he could run like the wind!!!

Haha, yeah one of his legs was bent outwards and the other one bent inwards and one leg was 6 inches smaller than the other.
That is what gave him that amazing ability to change direction suddenly at full speed.

[beds]

i think garrincha was a better player than pele, pele stands out though cos of his strike rate.
but garrincha made half them goals possible and he had a gammy leg which looked weird but he could run like the wind!!!

Haha, yeah one of his legs was bent outwards and the other one bent inwards and one leg was 6 inches smaller than the other.
That is what gave him that amazing ability to change direction suddenly at full speed.

and park right up close to tescos

[gogs67]

Oggie,you make your points well but the fact is had Pele not been playing with those same players in the Brazil team,he still would have been amazing.Also,he was(until very very recently)Brazil's highest scorer ever and if you look at tll the great players they have had,that is some achievement. He also scored over 1,000 goals in his career,which is absolutely incredible and led to his average team,Santos to 2 world club championships.He was two footed,could head,dribble,long range,tap ins etc etc etc. Follow this link,it's a great read.

http://www.latinosportslegends.com/Pele_bio.htm

It's because maybe we did not see Pele all the time that we think he is not as good Mardaona etc etc because they plied their trade in Europe but I'm sure the South American contingent think the same of Zidane etc because they did not get to see them play all the time.

Thanks for that link man.
No doubt that Pele was an extraordinary player and his strike rate speaks for itself but, I honestly believe that if you took Garrincha off the late 50's/early 60's Brazil team, that would have been a bigger loss than Pele. Pele was playing with some of the greatest playmakers you will ever see in the likes of Nilton Santos, Zito, Didi, Zagallo and Garrincha and while he scored some spectacular goals, I just feel he didn't do as many individually brilliant things as Zidane or Maradona.I don't mean to downplay him in the slightest because he is one of the all time greats and if I was to make a top 10 list, he would most certainly be on there but like I said, for individual brilliance, I think Zidane and Maradona (Garrincha too) are ahead of him in my opinion...

Sorry,but Pele could and did do as many individually brilliant things as either of them.I don't know how much footage you've seen of him compared to the modern pair but the majority of Pele's goals when he was at the height of his career were scored after he had beaten a couple of guys or produced a flash of genius in ball control and hit the net.When they talk about modern players 'burning out' from too many games a season,look at his record of AVERAGING 70+ games a year for 18 years !Him and Maradonna are the top 2 ever with ZZ just behind.Ronaldinho has a while to go to match these 3!

Garrincha was probably better than all of them,single handidly taking Brazil to victory in '62 probably being his most famous achievement,personaly i think only being on the loosing side in ONE international out of 60 odd games and that was his final game as well! ) was equally impressive,but his impact on other games ,being a winger,was mabye just shaded by the other 3.Kudos to him though!

[Oggie]

I've seen lots of footage of Pele scoring many individually brilliant goals for Santos during his career, but that is not at the highest level... he never matched Maradona's individual class when it came to the World cup (probably because he didn't need to be an individual with THAT team around him). Maybe he could have done what Maradona did, but he never showed it or never needed to show it at the highest level. I was too young to remember Maradona at his best, but after seeing footage of the what he did in 1986 especially, I was left more amazed than any of the footage I saw of Pele at World Cup's with Brazil. Diego had scary talent! That is not to say that what Pele did was not great, just not as great as Maradona in my opinion.
I agree with you though that Ronaldinho has a long way to go before he can be mentioned in the same breath as Maradona, Zidane, Garrincha or Pele. He has buckets of talent, but as of now, he lacks the ability to take a game by the scruff of the neck and dig deep when the team is in trouble.

[El Gamo]

CC back from yesterday Oggie brother and CC Gogs,great poins man. You all make great points and back it up.

[X]

I hate to say it about a Frenchman, but I think Zidane is up in the same bracket as those guys?

Needs to cut down on needless fouls though - check out his stats, he gets pulled up a lot.

Quite a needless foul last night, eh Zinedine?

The funny thing was, he butted him because he thought he might be sent off if he punched him in the face!!

Ha - thick kunt

[El Kabong]

...there was a French dude who scored 13 goals in 1 World Cup...I think it was 1958 or something...surely that guy deserves a mention as a "good" player.


My favorite is Romario though...he was much better than Ronaldo...hey where did all of Brazil's great players go Oh that's right, Ronaldo ATE THEM!

[X]

ha - yeah, the French guy was Just Fontaine.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

ha - yeah, the French guy was Just Fontaine.

later he formed the group The Mindbenders.

[X]

ha - yeah, the French guy was Just Fontaine.

later he formed the group The Mindbenders.

Sorry, you've lost me there MIssy?