J C Chavez or S R Leonard ?

[cockey cockney]

SRL is greater....IMO he faught better competition. Dont get me wrong Chavez was great, and he boosts an impressive record but i mean in the first 80 or so fights he faught no elite fighter. In a P4P sense if they were to fight, Leonard would be the superior boxer aswell.

Haven't sc you in awhile. Let me change that. Chavez faught Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (2), Edwin Rosario, Juan LaPorte and Meldrick Taylor in his first 80 fights. I would call them elite

roger mayweather was not elite what great fighter did edwin rosario ever beat ?? same with juan la porte and Jose Luis Ramirez has good record but never beat anyone superb only real great fighter he beat on that list was meldrick taylor he had excellent skills one of quickest hands ive ever seen its shame he had to brawl chavez because he had the fight in the bag but even meldrick taylor sadly never beat anyone great either not saying thats his fault because i know he had bad injurys after chavez fight but still facts are facts he never beat anyone really great either because his prime ended so quick

leonard beat wilfredo benitez hagler hearns and duran them alone are greater fighters than the ones u mentioned

and spot on buddy!

[ICB]

SRL is greater....IMO he faught better competition. Dont get me wrong Chavez was great, and he boosts an impressive record but i mean in the first 80 or so fights he faught no elite fighter. In a P4P sense if they were to fight, Leonard would be the superior boxer aswell.

Haven't sc you in awhile. Let me change that. Chavez faught Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (2), Edwin Rosario, Juan LaPorte and Meldrick Taylor in his first 80 fights. I would call them elite

roger mayweather was not elite what great fighter did edwin rosario ever beat ?? same with juan la porte and Jose Luis Ramirez has good record but never beat anyone superb only real great fighter he beat on that list was meldrick taylor he had excellent skills one of quickest hands ive ever seen its shame he had to brawl chavez because he had the fight in the bag but even meldrick taylor sadly never beat anyone great either not saying thats his fault because i know he had bad injurys after chavez fight but still facts are facts he never beat anyone really great either because his prime ended so quick

leonard beat wilfredo benitez hagler hearns and duran them alone are greater fighters than the ones u mentioned

and spot on buddy!

cc back my friend

[Violent Demise]

SRL is greater....IMO he faught better competition. Dont get me wrong Chavez was great, and he boosts an impressive record but i mean in the first 80 or so fights he faught no elite fighter. In a P4P sense if they were to fight, Leonard would be the superior boxer aswell.

Haven't sc you in awhile. Let me change that. Chavez faught Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (2), Edwin Rosario, Juan LaPorte and Meldrick Taylor in his first 80 fights. I would call them elite

roger mayweather was not elite what great fighter did edwin rosario ever beat ?? same with juan la porte and Jose Luis Ramirez has good record but never beat anyone superb only real great fighter he beat on that list was meldrick taylor he had excellent skills one of quickest hands ive ever seen its shame he had to brawl chavez because he had the fight in the bag but even meldrick taylor sadly never beat anyone great either not saying thats his fault because i know he had bad injurys after chavez fight but still facts are facts he never beat anyone really great either because his prime ended so quick

leonard beat wilfredo benitez hagler hearns and duran them alone are greater fighters than the ones u mentioned

Rosario is a Hall of Famer. And he's always been an elite fighter. As was Jose Ramirez. Don't make a fool of yourself by saying other wise. In fact go look for some of there fights. You'll enjoy them. Look for Ramirez-Alexis Arguello. Watch the fight and tell me Ramirez did not deserve to win.

[Realitycheck77]

Maybe it would seem to be Julio, but the problem is that Ray fought this list of fighters and beat them. Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns, Marvin Hagler.. he beat them all. That was a pretty good hat trick. Ray fought those guys,, Hearns beat Cuevez,Benitez,Duran,Hill. Hagler beat Duran,Hearns, Duran beat ,, well duran beat lightweights.

What on earth are you talking about, we're not talking about Duran, we’re comparing SR Leonard with J C Chavez!

But just coming back to your point of who did Duran beat just Lightweights, I think you need a Realitycheck, because to me that came across as being quite degrading in comparision to the fighters you mentioned.

Duran did not just beat Lightweights, he beat Lightweights, Welterweights, Light-Middleweights and Middleweights!

Now back to Chavez, thank you.

[diamonddavestafford]

In terms of the achievements and all-time graetness who would you rate higher in your list out of these two? and please give you reasons.

I would rate Julio Cesar Chavez higher than Sugar Ray Leonard in my list!

Hands down, Sugar Ray Leonard. Better opposition by far; only true legendary opponents that JCC had were Pernell Whitaker and Oscar Delahoya who both beat him. Yeah you can call the Pernell fight a draw since that's what they called it but we all know the truth was they were afraid to award Whitaker the victory because they were afraid of all the mexicans in the audience going apeshit and starting a riot. Leonard won more titles in different weight divisions, and overall did much more for the sport.

[Syntax Error]

SRL is the greater fighter.

He would have done to Chavez what Meldrick Tayklor did to him, but Ray would not have been daft enough to get KO'd with 2 seconds remaining!!!!!

[Counter]

SRL

[cockey cockney]

SRL

[p4pking]

SRL is greater....IMO he faught better competition. Dont get me wrong Chavez was great, and he boosts an impressive record but i mean in the first 80 or so fights he faught no elite fighter. In a P4P sense if they were to fight, Leonard would be the superior boxer aswell.

Haven't sc you in awhile. Let me change that. Chavez faught Jose Luis Ramirez, Roger Mayweather (2), Edwin Rosario, Juan LaPorte and Meldrick Taylor in his first 80 fights. I would call them elite

roger mayweather was not elite what great fighter did edwin rosario ever beat ?? same with juan la porte and Jose Luis Ramirez has good record but never beat anyone superb only real great fighter he beat on that list was meldrick taylor he had excellent skills one of quickest hands ive ever seen its shame he had to brawl chavez because he had the fight in the bag but even meldrick taylor sadly never beat anyone great either not saying thats his fault because i know he had bad injurys after chavez fight but still facts are facts he never beat anyone really great either because his prime ended so quick

leonard beat wilfredo benitez hagler hearns and duran them alone are greater fighters than the ones u mentioned

Rosario is a Hall of Famer. And he's always been an elite fighter. As was Jose Ramirez. Don't make a fool of yourself by saying other wise. In fact go look for some of there fights. You'll enjoy them. Look for Ramirez-Alexis Arguello. Watch the fight and tell me Ramirez did not deserve to win.

CC, that fight is never even mentioned.. But I don't know about Rosario as a hall of famer, Im sure he is in the hall but Id call him borderline... Either way, Rosario and Ramirez do not match up to Hearns, Benitez, Duran, Hagler, not even in the same league. You also mention Juan Laporte as someone Chavez beat in his first 80 fights... Well, you watch that fight and tell me Laporte didn't deserve to win.

[LegendBoxing65]

Sugar Ray had a unique career. He had 40 fights, yet in those 40 fights he fought the best guys in a shorter amount of time that anyone ever has. He fought great fighters not just maybe greats. He fought Benitez,Hearns and Duran.. then came out later and fought Hagler. So his quality was the best anyone could have, yet he didn't do what Hearns did in that Hearns fought all the guys Leonard did and then some, but Hearns also fought the Dewitts and Kinchens and Olajides.. So what does it mean to fight the contenders types as well as the greats? Who knows. Fact is Leonard beat all the greats. So in that he has to be better than Julio in some ways... Yet Julio was so dominant. Just goes to show you have it is hard to rate a fighters career.

[LegendBoxing65]

Realitycheck, my point was that yes Duran did beat guys at Welt., Junior Middle and Middle, but he didn't beat the cream of the crop guys. The only great guy he beat in the 80s was Leonard, whom he beat because Ray fought the wrong fight. HAd that fight really proved he was better, he would have won the rematch and the rubber match. And the next best guy he beat in the 80s you go way down a notch from Sugar Ray to Iran Barkley.. Iran was not exactly a great fighter. So just on the 80s Duran fought the best in Leonard,Hearns,Benitez,Hagler.. but he didn't beat them. And look what Hearns did to Duran 16 years before Duran retired. But yes back to Chavez.

[Realitycheck77]

Realitycheck, my point was that yes Duran did beat guys at Welt., Junior Middle and Middle, but he didn't beat the cream of the crop guys. The only great guy he beat in the 80s was Leonard, whom he beat because Ray fought the wrong fight. HAd that fight really proved he was better, he would have won the rematch and the rubber match. And the next best guy he beat in the 80s you go way down a notch from Sugar Ray to Iran Barkley.. Iran was not exactly a great fighter. So just on the 80s Duran fought the best in Leonard,Hearns,Benitez,Hagler.. but he didn't beat them. And look what Hearns did to Duran 16 years before Duran retired. But yes back to Chavez.

Ok, let me get one thing straight.

Are you by anyway trying to put the great “Manos de Peidra” down, because if you are then please read on.

First of all this topic I’ve started has nothing to do with Duran please find title of the topic again for your ref: J C Chavez or S R Leonard ?

What I’m about to say is a completely unbiased viewpoint, Yes, Sugar Ray did beat Duran, but how dare you take anything away from Duran’s performance in the “Brawl in Montreal” Duran was 30 and in all fairness he had established himself as one of the Greatest Lightweight fighters EVER, he moved up a weight division to challenge Ray Leonard when Sugar was at his peak or near enough, irrelevant of what fight Sugar fought, Duran beat him DONE. EVERYONE knows why Duran forefitted the returm match so I’m not going to go into that. Duran would party TO MUCH between bouts and the rest is history, their 3rd encounter I wouldn’t even class that anywhere, both fighters were way past there best especially Duran and the rubber was about 8 years to late. I would call there fights 1 each, Duran won the first fight at what he does best and Leonard the second at what he does best.

You say look what Hearn’s done to Duran, yes Hearn’s was the first and only person to KO Duran, he caught him Fair enough it could have been the other way around if Duran caught him first because we know Hearn’s has a weakish chin, but then look what Barkley done to Hearn’s and Duran knocked down and beat Barkley, so what does that say about Duran.

You try to make a point by saying Duran hasn’t beaten anyone in the 80’s, Duran fought anyone who was put in front of him, Duran had no business mixing it with the likes of Hearn’s, Hagler, Barkley and Leonard, but he did and he done very well, he beat Leonard, beat Barkley and he was the first and only person to take Hagler the full 15 rounds, and he only lost that match by a very narrow margin, infact Leonard has gone on record to say it was Duran’s performance against Hagler that showed Leonard the way to go up against Hagler.

Duran’s career was in 3 parts, Part 1 was from the beginning to the brawl in montereal, part 2 was from that night in New Orleans to his redemption against Davey Moore and then part 3 was him mixing it with the Middleweights, taking Hagler the full 15 and beating Barkley to win his 4th title.

Duran greatness and legend status is so much that when he SHOULD have retired he was still winning and knocking guys out, although the latter part of his career had mixed results, it was his greatness that ensured he was able to mix it up till when he did.

Sugar Ray had this habit of going into retirement when ever he felt like it, so therefore he didn’t have many battle scars and was able to keep fresher, call it what you want, clever or anything that’s what he done, I personally don’t think he beat Hagler and he didn’t deserve the decision against Hearn’s, but that’s my opinion.

Why put a restriction on just the 80’s – Duran is one of the greatest fighters EVER, in any all-time list he will always feature somewhere in the top 5 ahead of all the fighters you’ve mentioned.

Everyone knows when Duran fought in the 80’s he was not at his peak, but yet he still more than held his own, if he was in his prime and came to fight he was the closest thing to UNBEATABLE!

I’ll come back to you on Chavez!

[ICB]

Realitycheck, my point was that yes Duran did beat guys at Welt., Junior Middle and Middle, but he didn't beat the cream of the crop guys. The only great guy he beat in the 80s was Leonard, whom he beat because Ray fought the wrong fight.  HAd that fight really proved he was better, he would have won the rematch and the rubber match. And the next best guy he beat in the 80s you go way down a notch from Sugar Ray to Iran Barkley..   Iran was not exactly a great fighter. So just on the 80s Duran fought the best in Leonard,Hearns,Benitez,Hagler.. but he didn't beat them. And look what Hearns did to Duran 16 years before Duran retired. But yes back to Chavez.

Ok, let me get one thing straight.

Are you by anyway trying to put the great “Manos de Peidra” down, because if you are then please read on.

First of all this topic I’ve started has nothing to do with Duran please find title of the topic again for your ref:   J C Chavez or S R Leonard ?

What I’m about to say is a completely unbiased viewpoint, Yes, Sugar Ray did beat Duran, but how dare you take anything away from Duran’s performance in the “Brawl in Montreal” Duran was 30 and in all fairness he had established himself as one of the Greatest Lightweight fighters EVER, he moved up a weight division to challenge Ray Leonard when Sugar was at his peak or near enough, irrelevant of what fight Sugar fought, Duran beat him DONE. EVERYONE knows why Duran forefitted the returm match so I’m not going to go into that. Duran would party TO MUCH between bouts and the rest is history, their 3rd encounter I wouldn’t even class that anywhere, both fighters were way past there best especially Duran and the rubber was about 8 years to late. I would call there fights 1 each, Duran won the first fight at what he does best and Leonard the second at what he does best.

You say look what Hearn’s done to Duran, yes Hearn’s was the first and only person to KO Duran, he caught him Fair enough it could have been the other way around if Duran caught him first because we know Hearn’s has a weakish chin, but then look what Barkley done to Hearn’s and Duran knocked down and beat Barkley, so what does that say about Duran.

You try to make a point by saying Duran hasn’t beaten anyone in the 80’s, Duran fought anyone who was put in front of him, Duran had no business mixing it with the likes of Hearn’s, Hagler, Barkley and Leonard, but he did and he done very well, he beat Leonard, beat Barkley and he was the first and only person to take Hagler the full 15 rounds, and he only lost that match by a very narrow margin, infact Leonard has gone on record to say it was Duran’s performance against Hagler that showed Leonard the way to go up against Hagler.

Duran’s career was in 3 parts, Part 1 was from the beginning to the brawl in montereal, part 2 was from that night in New Orleans to his redemption against Davey Moore and then part 3 was him mixing it with the Middleweights, taking Hagler the full 15 and beating Barkley to win his 4th title.

Duran greatness and legend status is so much that when he SHOULD have retired he was still winning and knocking guys out, although the latter part of his career had mixed results, it was his greatness that ensured he was able to mix it up till when he did.

Sugar Ray had this habit of going into retirement when ever he felt like it, so therefore he didn’t have many battle scars and was able to keep fresher, call it what you want, clever or anything that’s what he done, I personally don’t think he beat Hagler and he didn’t deserve the decision against Hearn’s, but that’s my opinion.

Why put a restriction on just the 80’s – Duran is one of the greatest fighters EVER, in any all-time list he will always feature somewhere in the top 5 ahead of all the fighters you’ve mentioned.

Everyone knows when Duran fought in the 80’s he was not at his peak, but yet he still more than held his own, if he was in his prime and came to fight he was the closest thing to UNBEATABLE!

I’ll come back to you on Chavez!

i thought barkley should of won against duran but anyway yes duran was great but he wouldnt of ever caught hearns he was too small and didnt have reach hearns murdered him i have to say and it would happen 10 out 10 because hearns is much too big for duran barkley caught hearns but he was same height as hearns so he always has much greater chance being able to catch him especially being big puncher and same height as hearns and i dont know about being closest thing to unbeatable either but he was excellent champ and legend no doubt about it

[Realitycheck77]

Realitycheck, my point was that yes Duran did beat guys at Welt., Junior Middle and Middle, but he didn't beat the cream of the crop guys. The only great guy he beat in the 80s was Leonard, whom he beat because Ray fought the wrong fight. HAd that fight really proved he was better, he would have won the rematch and the rubber match. And the next best guy he beat in the 80s you go way down a notch from Sugar Ray to Iran Barkley.. Iran was not exactly a great fighter. So just on the 80s Duran fought the best in Leonard,Hearns,Benitez,Hagler.. but he didn't beat them. And look what Hearns did to Duran 16 years before Duran retired. But yes back to Chavez.

Ok, let me get one thing straight.

Are you by anyway trying to put the great “Manos de Peidra” down, because if you are then please read on.

First of all this topic I’ve started has nothing to do with Duran please find title of the topic again for your ref: J C Chavez or S R Leonard ?

What I’m about to say is a completely unbiased viewpoint, Yes, Sugar Ray did beat Duran, but how dare you take anything away from Duran’s performance in the “Brawl in Montreal” Duran was 30 and in all fairness he had established himself as one of the Greatest Lightweight fighters EVER, he moved up a weight division to challenge Ray Leonard when Sugar was at his peak or near enough, irrelevant of what fight Sugar fought, Duran beat him DONE. EVERYONE knows why Duran forefitted the returm match so I’m not going to go into that. Duran would party TO MUCH between bouts and the rest is history, their 3rd encounter I wouldn’t even class that anywhere, both fighters were way past there best especially Duran and the rubber was about 8 years to late. I would call there fights 1 each, Duran won the first fight at what he does best and Leonard the second at what he does best.

You say look what Hearn’s done to Duran, yes Hearn’s was the first and only person to KO Duran, he caught him Fair enough it could have been the other way around if Duran caught him first because we know Hearn’s has a weakish chin, but then look what Barkley done to Hearn’s and Duran knocked down and beat Barkley, so what does that say about Duran.

You try to make a point by saying Duran hasn’t beaten anyone in the 80’s, Duran fought anyone who was put in front of him, Duran had no business mixing it with the likes of Hearn’s, Hagler, Barkley and Leonard, but he did and he done very well, he beat Leonard, beat Barkley and he was the first and only person to take Hagler the full 15 rounds, and he only lost that match by a very narrow margin, infact Leonard has gone on record to say it was Duran’s performance against Hagler that showed Leonard the way to go up against Hagler.

Duran’s career was in 3 parts, Part 1 was from the beginning to the brawl in montereal, part 2 was from that night in New Orleans to his redemption against Davey Moore and then part 3 was him mixing it with the Middleweights, taking Hagler the full 15 and beating Barkley to win his 4th title.

Duran greatness and legend status is so much that when he SHOULD have retired he was still winning and knocking guys out, although the latter part of his career had mixed results, it was his greatness that ensured he was able to mix it up till when he did.

Sugar Ray had this habit of going into retirement when ever he felt like it, so therefore he didn’t have many battle scars and was able to keep fresher, call it what you want, clever or anything that’s what he done, I personally don’t think he beat Hagler and he didn’t deserve the decision against Hearn’s, but that’s my opinion.

Why put a restriction on just the 80’s – Duran is one of the greatest fighters EVER, in any all-time list he will always feature somewhere in the top 5 ahead of all the fighters you’ve mentioned.

Everyone knows when Duran fought in the 80’s he was not at his peak, but yet he still more than held his own, if he was in his prime and came to fight he was the closest thing to UNBEATABLE!

I’ll come back to you on Chavez!

i thought barkley should of won against duran but anyway yes duran was great but he wouldnt of ever caught hearns he was too small and didnt have reach hearns murdered him i have to say and it would happen 10 out 10 because hearns is much too big for duran barkley caught hearns but he was same height as hearns so he always has much greater chance being able to catch him especially being big puncher and same height as hearns and i dont know about being closest thing to unbeatable either but he was excellent champ and legend no doubt about it

I agree with some of your points, but can you see my point of view, just to go in with Hearn's - that takes a huge amount of balls, I don’t agree with 10 out of 10, I think Duran was clever and powerful enough to at least beat him once.

And the closest thing to unbeatable at his peak is just my opinion, the reason I started this was because I felt Legendboxing was doing an injustice to the great “Hands of Stone"

[Scrap]

Duran was a great, dont even go there