Miranda rips Taylor, Dibella!

[The Shadow]

Great stuff, Pantera! Miranda certainly doesn't mince words and makes a very compelling and sound argument. DiBella may be
bashing Miranda verbally, but I wouldn't want to be in DiBella's company when he thinks of the fallout of such a matchup. I'm certain
the feculent stench from his soiled panties would be unbearable.

One of Miranda's traits that I like the least. He's about as mouthy as Mayorga...remains to be seen if he can back it up against the elite though.

I'd love to see him fight Taylor.

I think that Wright has too much skill for him.

I honestly believe that he'll have another ruff night against Abraham. That fight was give & take & broken jaw or not...Abraham hurt Miranda also.

I'd rather him fight someone like Mora, Lorenzo, or Duddy...some of the lower teir but skilled middles. There's plenty of time to get to Taylor...but let it build up...let the rivalry sell the fight instead of your mouth.

I certainly agree to a large extent. But I think Miranda deserves a lot more than fighting the likes of Mora, Lorenzo, or Duddy. He proved on the world stage that he could compete with a World Champ when he fought Abraham. There are many Abraham detractors, but the man still finished the bout even though he appeared to have a melon growing on the side of his face.
We see H.W.'s like Briggs getting a shot at a title for fighting a who's who list of washed-up bums. Miranda has been in there with a solid and crafty Middleweight Champ. I don't understand why he should have to wait any longer by fighting second tier opponents...just don't add up to me.

Because he still has stuff he needs to work on. And 'hanging in there' with a Middleweight champ he didnt win(even though it was a huge with the point deductions and etc) no matter what he still didn't win which means he isnt "there" yet, he may be close but he's not "there" and it would be wise not to rush him in their again until he's "there"

Just like Vargas was 'hanging in there' with Wright his people assumed he was 'there' already so they put him in with an already 'there' Trinidad and you saw what happened.

Let Miranda get 'there' before they put him in with another guy like that.

Well, you make a valid point in terms of him still having a lot to work on. I'm just wondering what kind of measuring stick you're using to assess when he will be 'there'. I don't think the Vargas analogy is appropriate as I never thought Vargas was a top-tier fighter. He just always looked like a hungry kid with a lot of guts and not an abundance of talent. That's not to say that I don't think Vargas is not a talented boxer, that would be stupid. I just don't think that all of the training in the world couldn't have prepared him for Trinidad. He couldn't get beyond DLH loaded to the tills with anabolics, although in both fights he showed his warrior grit.
What David Reid's management did to him was throw the sheep into the wolves' den; nevertheless, I'm rambling.
Point being:

Miranda looked more than capable against Abraham. And I fully agree with Wacky that he lost the fight and was hurt by Abraham. I'll concede to both of you and offer this proposal:

Miranda vs. Pavlik with winner fighting Taylor for the title. In light of Taylor's recent comments about his dislike for the sport, I don't see him being around that much longer. The question to ask is whether he'll bow out or get knocked out.

[Wacko3205]

Well, you make a valid point in terms of him still having a lot to work on. I'm just wondering what kind of measuring stick you're using to assess when he will be 'there'.

It's not necessarily a measuring stick per say.

It's more experience to open up his array of punches & also sharpen his technique. Just stop & sit through all of the fights of Miranda that you can get. Let me say this...I'm often very leary of commenting on a fighter that I don't have the full body of work embedded in my brain...but Miranda's an easy case because he is so incomplete. That sounded much worse than it is...but his problems are few...but they are big issues.

I'll hit it all in the Abraham discussion below.

I don't think the Vargas analogy is appropriate as I never thought Vargas was a top-tier fighter. He just always looked like a hungry kid with a lot of guts and not an abundance of talent. That's not to say that I don't think Vargas is not a talented boxer, that would be stupid. I just don't think that all of the training in the world couldn't have prepared him for Trinidad. He couldn't get beyond DLH loaded to the tills with anabolics, although in both fights he showed his warrior grit.

Totally disagree...I think that Vargas needed a few more big fights against some accomplished talent & a little bit of tweaking with his attitude & he'd have been the cat's ass so to speak. Yes he was hungry...but Vargas was more than just that...he was special...his amatuer record of 100 wins & 5 defeats slaps a big fat exclamation point on that fact. Then there's his Olympic shot & controversial loss there which comes to mind also.

Vargas held his own against Oscar & Trinidad up until the mid rounds of the fight & he was giving them fits prior to getting dropped.

Primarily...you might think that I just repeated what you said above...but my point that I want to broadcast is (while I am no fan of him...in fact I loathe Vargas) that he should never have been pressed into action against Trinidad or Oscar that early in his career & it devastated him mentally...he will never come back. He was not complete & now never will be.

I look at Miranda in the same fashion. Sure he's skilled & is a devastating concussive puncher...but there's more to boxing than just dropping bombs & the men that he is going to face at 160lbs...the ones that I mentioned...the ones on the lower end of the totem poll...those men would give Miranda some much needed ring work & help him ply his trade.

Do you see where I am coming from? I'm not saying that Miranda sucks...but he needs some more work...course...I could be wrong...but I just don't think that I am.

Miranda looked more than capable against Abraham. And I fully agree with Wacky that he lost the fight and was hurt by Abraham.

He did look capable against Abraham in spots...but he also looked totally vulnerable also. Even though Abraham was hurt...& he was hurting...he never really looked hurt hurt...as in about to be knocked out. He was steady on his feet pretty much the entire fight except for the 4th or 5th when the breakage seemed to happen.

Watch that fight again. I've always liked Abraham...but that fight made me respect him & his power much more than before. I really lost a lot of respect for Miranda during that fight because he was constantly using his head & going low apparently out of frustration. Anytime that Abraham got on him...he'd crack him in the nuts. Anyone that says he wasn't fouling in that fight...well...they'd be wrong.

The fight that did it for me on Miranda the most was the Eastman fight.

Anywho, Abraham outboxed him...even with that broken jaw & shitloads of blood going down his throat.

Miranda vs. Pavlik with winner fighting Taylor for the title. In light of Taylor's recent comments about his dislike for the sport, I don't see him being around that much longer. The question to ask is whether he'll bow out or get knocked out.

Pavlik would be an interesting fight.

Not 100% sure who I'd pick. I've thought about it...& I just go back & forth on the outcome.

As far as Taylor goes...I still stand by my thoughts on that one...Miranda knocks him out. He just backs up with his hands down to much.

in another 24 hours.

Good discussion...youv'e made some valid points. Thanks babe.

[The Shadow]

It's not necessarily a measuring stick per say.

It's more experience to open up his array of punches & also sharpen his technique. Just stop & sit through all of the fights of Miranda that you can get. Let me say this...I'm often very leary of commenting on a fighter that I don't have the full body of work embedded in my brain...but Miranda's an easy case because he is so incomplete. That sounded much worse than it is...but his problems are few...but they are big issues.

Yes, there are some issues surrounding Miranda's technique. He leaves himself open for counters too often as evidenced in his fight with Abraham. Further, he admits in his own words that he walks into bouts resolved to only use 'plan A', throwing caution to the wind and just pounding his target with bombs. He also stated that he never felt that he needed to use a 'plan B', but I thought that if he had a 'plan B' he should have used it when he fought Abraham. Of course, 'plan B' shouldn't have been head-butts.
It may also be possible that what you see is what you get, and Miranda's learning-curve has plateaued. But I really don't believe that and think a good trainer can affect a lot of positive changes in his style if Miranda is interested in learning how to become a complete package.

Totally disagree...I think that Vargas needed a few more big fights against some accomplished talent & a little bit of tweaking with his attitude & he'd have been the cat's a** so to speak. Yes he was hungry...but Vargas was more than just that...he was special...his amatuer record of 100 wins & 5 defeats slaps a big fat exclamation point on that fact. Then there's his Olympic shot & controversial loss there which comes to mind also.

Vargas held his own against Oscar & Trinidad up until the mid rounds of the fight & he was giving them fits prior to getting dropped.

There have been fighters with impressive amateur pedigrees that never translated into becoming a world champ at the pro level. I think with Vargas' above average skills and tremendous heart that he made a pretty damn good showing for himself. When I look over his record and see the age at which he was fighting top-tier opponents, it makes me a bit
more thoughtful about the big picture, i.e. maybe he was hurried along a bit too quickly.
His win over Winky was a pure bullshit decision, but he was in with a little known gem that didn't have any popular appeal. I think a lot of politics went into that decision.
However, even on anabolics, I had him ahead in DLH fight until he got caught. The doping factor takes all of his credibility away for that fight, though.

Do you see where I am coming from? I'm not saying that Miranda sucks...but he needs some more work...course...I could be wrong...but I just don't think that I am.

Yes, Miranda needs work to perfect a technical defense. Throwing all caution to the wind and using head-butt tactics will eventually get him KO'd. Miranda does seem a bit high on himself, though. Maybe it will take a KO loss for him to sit back and start doing some personal inventory. I should and will watch the entire fight again, as I only watched it once.


He did look capable against Abraham in spots...but he also looked totally vulnerable also. Even though Abraham was hurt...& he was hurting...he never really looked hurt hurt...as in about to be knocked out. He was steady on his feet pretty much the entire fight except for the 4th or 5th when the breakage seemed to happen.

Watch that fight again. I've always liked Abraham...but that fight made me respect him & his power much more than before. I really lost a lot of respect for Miranda during that fight because he was constantly using his head & going low apparently out of frustration. Anytime that Abraham got on him...he'd crack him in the nuts. Anyone that says he wasn't fouling in that fight...well...they'd be wrong.

Agreed. He was fouling. I just thought that the number of point deductions was a bit draconian. I don't think it was as severe as Hatton's tactics against Tszyu, though.

The fight that did it for me on Miranda the most was the Eastman fight.

What about the Eastman fight did it for you? Prior to that bout Eastman was in with the likes of Hopkins and Abraham. I remember seeing the fight, I just don't remember it all that well.

Pavlik would be an interesting fight.

Not 100% sure who I'd pick. I've thought about it...& I just go back & forth on the outcome.

As far as Taylor goes...I still stand by my thoughts on that one...Miranda knocks him out. He just backs up with his hands down to much.

I would have to go with Miranda based on the opposition that he's fought at this point. I've seen Pavlik hit flush by good punchers and he seems to have a good beard. If Miranda gets stupid and throws caution to the wind it could be an early night for him as Pavlik has dynamite in both hands. That being said, I think both camps are going to avoid that fight. I think it's up to the fans to mandate it.

Good discussion...youv'e made some valid points. Thanks babe.

Always a pleasure brother. You got me to re-evaluate a lot of my ideas on some of these points, which is ALWAYS a good thing. CC back at ya later tonight!

[Wacko3205]

What about the Eastman fight did it for you? Prior to that bout Eastman was in with the likes of Hopkins and Abraham. I remember seeing the fight, I just don't remember it all that well.

Eastman is a fantastic boxer...he's just a bit of an under acheiver when it comes to going for it.

Eastman clocked him twice & rattled him & he just worked through it & then knocked Eastman silly.

The stoppage might have been a bit premature...but he truely had Eastman out on his feet. Never seen it that way before.

Abraham wasn't able to hurt him that much, nor was Hopkins.