Mike Tyson with Cus D'Amota

[SweetPea]

you seem like knowledgeable poster mate did that left hook that floored ali in 15th break his jaw because i cant remember

I think Ali got his jaw broken by Norton, not Frazier. I'm not completely sure though.

[ICB]

I couldn't call a Prime Holmes Prime Tyson fight, I may lean towards Holmes if it went long. But one thing I do know i that Holmes would NEVER had taken the punches that KOed him at anytime during his career, and was his defence really that shot in 88 

well he was 38 had two weeks to train and hadnt fought in 2 years and was on losing streak so you tell me   and at one point in that fight he started dancing and tyson looked confused and young holmes would do that for full distance if your saying that then was mike tysons defence really shot against razor ruddock ?? because to me he looked very good and i dont really see no difference them body shots he hit ruddock with in first fight were devasting and he had headmovement still it was just the way ruddock threw his punches he threw them very akward like uppercuts he threw were akward and strange thats why sometimes when tyson got caught he didnt see it coming because he threw them akward not because tyson was shot or losing his skills

[ICB]

you seem like knowledgeable poster mate did that left hook that floored ali in 15th break his jaw because i cant remember

I think Ali got his jaw broken by Norton, not Frazier. I'm not completely sure though.

ok thanks man cc

[BIG H]

I couldn't call a Prime Holmes Prime Tyson fight, I may lean towards Holmes if it went long. But one thing I do know i that Holmes would NEVER had taken the punches that KOed him at anytime during his career, and was his defence really that shot in 88

well he was 38 had two weeks to train and hadnt fought in 2 years and was on losing streak so you tell me and at one point in that fight he started dancing and tyson looked confused and young holmes would do that for full distance if your saying that then was mike tysons defence really shot against razor ruddock ?? because to me he looked very good and i dont really see no difference them body shots he hit ruddock with in first fight were devasting and he had headmovement still it was just the way ruddock threw his punches he threw them very akward like uppercuts he threw were akward and strange thats why sometimes when tyson got caught he didnt see it coming because he threw them akward not because tyson was shot or losing his skills

He was still fighting at 50 odd and did well enough aginst Mercer post Tyson

I get your point and totally agree that the Holmes that fought Tyson was a shadow - and as I said I would lean towards Holmes prime for prime.

[ICB]

I couldn't call a Prime Holmes Prime Tyson fight, I may lean towards Holmes if it went long. But one thing I do know i that Holmes would NEVER had taken the punches that KOed him at anytime during his career, and was his defence really that shot in 88

well he was 38 had two weeks to train and hadnt fought in 2 years and was on losing streak so you tell me and at one point in that fight he started dancing and tyson looked confused and young holmes would do that for full distance if your saying that then was mike tysons defence really shot against razor ruddock ?? because to me he looked very good and i dont really see no difference them body shots he hit ruddock with in first fight were devasting and he had headmovement still it was just the way ruddock threw his punches he threw them very akward like uppercuts he threw were akward and strange thats why sometimes when tyson got caught he didnt see it coming because he threw them akward not because tyson was shot or losing his skills

He was still fighting at 50 odd and did well enough aginst Mercer post Tyson

I get your point and totally agree that the Holmes that fought Tyson was a shadow - and as I said I would lean towards Holmes prime for prime.

ok fair enough mate i agree with that no dispute there

[Punisher136]

If cus d'amota doesn't die in the beginning of tyson career, Tyson goes down in history as the best heavyweight boxer of all time.

[SweetPea]

If cus d'amota doesn't die in the beginning of tyson career, Tyson goes down in history as the best heavyweight boxer of all time.

I gotta disagree with this one. While Cus' presence would've had a positive effect, do you think Cus would've convinced 23 year old Mike Tyson to go to bed by 9 pm every night and not go out partying?
Tyson had fatal flaws that were going to surface at some point, no matter what.

Ali will always be better than Tyson.

[Punisher136]

He would have delayed them singnificantly i think. Tyson was a time bomb just because of the way he was raised but if cus is around longer maybe tyson adapts and doesn't turn out to be the mike tyson of today (See trainwreck).

[SweetPea]

He would have delayed them singnificantly i think. Tyson was a time bomb just because of the way he was raised but if cus is around longer maybe tyson adapts and doesn't turn out to be the mike tyson of today (See trainwreck).

Yeah, you may be right. But "not being a trainwreck" is a big difference from "greatest heavyweight in history."

[Punisher136]

I see him in his prime as being in the top 3. A lot of people think he was just a bum who put four good years together b4 he fell apart. You can't really say who's the best heavyweight boxer of all time unless you could use a celebrity deathmatch time machine, bring them all back, and have a tournament seeded randomly. A prime tyson gives any great heavyweight a defeat or a run for his money.

[SweetPea]

I see him in his prime as being in the top 3. A lot of people think he was just a bum who put four good years together b4 he fell apart. You can't really say who's the best heavyweight boxer of all time unless you could use a celebrity deathmatch time machine, bring them all back, and have a tournament seeded randomly. A prime tyson gives any great heavyweight a defeat or a run for his money.

At his absolute peak he may have been the 3rd best. Someone could argue a bunch of other guys, but you could certainly make a legit argument for Tyson too.
I just don't think you can say someone was the best ever just because they were great in their short prime. Part of being a great athlete is being able to win even after your skills and youth begin to fade away. The greats can still win even when they're not at their best. That's what separates Ali from Tyson. Ali had a whole second career where he was past his prime.

[Punisher136]

I'm saying that if we're going into hypothetical things let's assume it turns out completely different. Tyson is guided through the majority of his career by his legal guardian and probably the only person he respected as a parental figure. He doesn't have the lapse in training or concentration. He goes on to beat buster douglas and the rising heavyweight star holyfield. He doesn't go to prison and continues this domination of the division. He beats morrison, a comeback bound foreman, moorer and lennox lewis. Where does he stand if that happens?

[SweetPea]

I'm saying that if we're going into hypothetical things let's assume it turns out completely different. Tyson is guided through the majority of his career by his legal guardian and probably the only person he respected as a parental figure. He doesn't have the lapse in training or concentration. He goes on to beat buster douglas and the rising heavyweight star holyfield. He doesn't go to prison and continues this domination of the division. He beats morrison, a comeback bound foreman, moorer and lennox lewis. Where does he stand if that happens?

Much higher on the list than he is now for sure. Top 10 definitely.
But I think even if Tyson stayed focused, he still would've lost to Holyfield and Lewis. I think he lost to those guys because of styles and skills, not because he wasn't focused. I think he would've lost to Holyfield and Lewis no matter what.

[BIG H]

Who ould've beaten him on his best night? I'm really not sure - but people who say he aint top 10, I bet they cant find 10 that would beat him on the night he defeated Tyrell Biggs

[ICB]

Who ould've beaten him on his best night? I'm really not sure - but people who say he aint top 10, I bet they cant find 10 that would beat him on the night he defeated Tyrell Biggs

Mike Tyson VS Tyrell Biggs

[youtube=425,350]PEo2Hxf0n5U[/youtube]

you mean this one big h