James Toney VS Wladimir Klitschko

[Majesty]

Now this is bs...
Why all you haters gotta do this crap..
So toney lost that fight..He is still AT LEAST.. third out of em all..
Ive been arguing my a** off and ive said..Look only vlad and sam peter take out toney..
So dont give me this he aint at least third..You tell me who else beats toney..None of those bizotches..
Its just true...
And the whole buffet stuff..Im so tired of that..He came in looking better this fight did he not?
The answer is yes..Give it a rest

Why is he #3?Because he lost to Peter twice was DQ against Ruiz eeked out a win over Rahman.He is 4-1-2 as a hevyweight!Tell me who with that kind of record would be in the top 20!

You tell me who beats him...
I scored the rahman fight for toney..And toney beats him now hands down..You saw how he came in..
Looked disgraceful
Its was there for the taking..and james took it barely in my opinion but fair play he wasnt busy enough cos he trained crap...
the ruiz fight counts for the performance..Fwok that james ruined it himself..UD.
And theres nothin to say about the rest..He's all good
Peter I he won..
Peter II fair play to sam he did enough to win the fight..
Ive answered yours you didnt answer mine
Who beats him then aside from sam and vlad?
And back it up with logic!

I don't know who beats him if he hasn't faced them yet.How can I use logic in a hypothetical argument?How many guys would be ranked in the top 3 after losing their last 2 fights?Look as Byrd!He was a title holder,lost 1 fight in 6 years and now he isn't even in the top 10!I really don't care who you think Toney could beat it it who he DOES beat that counts.

And how many people thought that the Wladimer that was beat by Brewster and looked the way he did against Williamson would have not been stopped by Sam Peter

If we judge by one night or two bad fights or close fights then we could have said Wladimer wouldn't be heavyweight champ for long couldn't we? But it's not the case is it?

[p4pking]

Now this is bs...
Why all you haters gotta do this crap..
So toney lost that fight..He is still AT LEAST.. third out of em all..
Ive been arguing my a** off and ive said..Look only vlad and sam peter take out toney..
So dont give me this he aint at least third..You tell me who else beats toney..None of those bizotches..
Its just true...
And the whole buffet stuff..Im so tired of that..He came in looking better this fight did he not?
The answer is yes..Give it a rest

Why is he #3?Because he lost to Peter twice was DQ against Ruiz eeked out a win over Rahman.He is 4-1-2 as a hevyweight!Tell me who with that kind of record would be in the top 20!

You tell me who beats him...
I scored the rahman fight for toney..And toney beats him now hands down..You saw how he came in..
Looked disgraceful
Its was there for the taking..and james took it barely in my opinion but fair play he wasnt busy enough cos he trained crap...
the ruiz fight counts for the performance..Fwok that james ruined it himself..UD.
And theres nothin to say about the rest..He's all good
Peter I he won..
Peter II fair play to sam he did enough to win the fight..
Ive answered yours you didnt answer mine
Who beats him then aside from sam and vlad?
And back it up with logic!

I don't know who beats him if he hasn't faced them yet.How can I use logic in a hypothetical argument?How many guys would be ranked in the top 3 after losing their last 2 fights?Look as Byrd!He was a title holder,lost 1 fight in 6 years and now he isn't even in the top 10!I really don't care who you think Toney could beat it it who he DOES beat that counts.

First thing, Bryd lost to Oquendo, and got a very questionable D vs Golota, then was TKOED in 5 by the present Wlad klitschko.. Secondly, you start this topic, supposedly, because you are sick of hearing that James Toney is the most skilled HW and wan't to see what people think.... Welll let me first off, tell you, that James TOney IS WITHOUT A DOUBT the most skilled HW, regardless of any response on this thread. THat doesn't mean he's the best, in fact he isn't even a HW... He is simply the fighter actively fighting at HW who has the most skill.. I think you were looking for the word, "best". Because in this regard, Wladmimir does take it, hands down for the moment. He's a natural HW, pretty good athlete, always mantains good physical condition, and I would personally pick him to beat any HW out there. Of course he would beat James TOney. BUT, that doesn't make him more skilled, and quite simply, he could never dream to be.. Wlad is 6'6, and weighs about 240 when in peak physical condition, Toey is 5'9, and at his best is probably a cruiserweight.... Needless to say its not due to skill that WLad cout beat Toney, or that Toney couldn't beat him.. So in short,

As a heavyweight Wladimir is the most skilled boxer.He beat Peter because of his boxing skills not his power.Wladimir wasn't the gold medal winner in the Olympics because he knocked everyone out it was his ability to hit and not be hit.Toney's skills at heavyweight are diminished compared to when he fought at a lighter weight.He was a lot faster and mobile then.Skill is why Wladimir beat Peter and skill is why Peter beat Toney as a heavyweight.

I don't think your quite absorbing this..... Klitshcko is the BEST HW in the world, at the momemnt, but he does not have more skills than James Toney, at any weight... Weight is the key factor here, Klit would beat Toney because he is naturally much bigger.... just as Peter beat him.. but you honestly think Wlad has as many skills as James Toney?? THat is as dellusional as saying Peter beat Toney because of skill..... What made oyu say that?? Peter was so much more powerful than James, he was quite a bit larger, and could take that hardest punch James could throw(and did several timeS). If Toney could have hurt Peter badly and laughed at his best shots, do you think the fight would have been the same? Nah, nobody would... THat's where skills comes into play. Or do you think Joey Maxim was more skilled than Sugar Ray Robinson as well

We are talking about HEAVYWEIGHT skills.As a heavyweight Wladimir poseses more tools to beat other heavyweights!I have no idea what kind of skills Wladimir would have if he was under 200lbs and 5'9"!

As far as Peter yes he beat Toney using his skills as a heavyweight the key word is heavyweight.Peter put together better combinations in that fight than Toney did, that is a fact.

Chris Byrd found a way to beat legitimate heavyweights without power, he was an example of a 169lb guy who worked his way into the heavyweights and used his skills to win.

HW skills What are you talking about. At least acknowledge that skills are not limited to weight class..... So tell me, in your opinion, is Wladimir a better fighter than FLoyd Mayweather, because he has Heavyweight skills and Floyd only has welterweight skills? I mean give me a break.. SKill is about boxing, and skills are the reason James Toney was able to compete against naturally larger opponents. Wlad is naturally larger than basically everyone he has ever faced(and has still been KOEd 3 times), and has never fought anytinh close to a great HW, so he doesn't need to possess the same kind of skills in order to be successful.

[Klitsfan]

Now this is bs...
Why all you haters gotta do this crap..
So toney lost that fight..He is still AT LEAST.. third out of em all..
Ive been arguing my a** off and ive said..Look only vlad and sam peter take out toney..
So dont give me this he aint at least third..You tell me who else beats toney..None of those bizotches..
Its just true...
And the whole buffet stuff..Im so tired of that..He came in looking better this fight did he not?
The answer is yes..Give it a rest

Why is he #3?Because he lost to Peter twice was DQ against Ruiz eeked out a win over Rahman.He is 4-1-2 as a hevyweight!Tell me who with that kind of record would be in the top 20!

You tell me who beats him...
I scored the rahman fight for toney..And toney beats him now hands down..You saw how he came in..
Looked disgraceful
Its was there for the taking..and james took it barely in my opinion but fair play he wasnt busy enough cos he trained crap...
the ruiz fight counts for the performance..Fwok that james ruined it himself..UD.
And theres nothin to say about the rest..He's all good
Peter I he won..
Peter II fair play to sam he did enough to win the fight..
Ive answered yours you didnt answer mine
Who beats him then aside from sam and vlad?
And back it up with logic!

I don't know who beats him if he hasn't faced them yet.How can I use logic in a hypothetical argument?How many guys would be ranked in the top 3 after losing their last 2 fights?Look as Byrd!He was a title holder,lost 1 fight in 6 years and now he isn't even in the top 10!I really don't care who you think Toney could beat it it who he DOES beat that counts.

First thing, Bryd lost to Oquendo, and got a very questionable D vs Golota, then was TKOED in 5 by the present Wlad klitschko.. Secondly, you start this topic, supposedly, because you are sick of hearing that James Toney is the most skilled HW and wan't to see what people think.... Welll let me first off, tell you, that James TOney IS WITHOUT A DOUBT the most skilled HW, regardless of any response on this thread. THat doesn't mean he's the best, in fact he isn't even a HW... He is simply the fighter actively fighting at HW who has the most skill.. I think you were looking for the word, "best". Because in this regard, Wladmimir does take it, hands down for the moment. He's a natural HW, pretty good athlete, always mantains good physical condition, and I would personally pick him to beat any HW out there. Of course he would beat James TOney. BUT, that doesn't make him more skilled, and quite simply, he could never dream to be.. Wlad is 6'6, and weighs about 240 when in peak physical condition, Toey is 5'9, and at his best is probably a cruiserweight.... Needless to say its not due to skill that WLad cout beat Toney, or that Toney couldn't beat him.. So in short,

As a heavyweight Wladimir is the most skilled boxer.He beat Peter because of his boxing skills not his power.Wladimir wasn't the gold medal winner in the Olympics because he knocked everyone out it was his ability to hit and not be hit.Toney's skills at heavyweight are diminished compared to when he fought at a lighter weight.He was a lot faster and mobile then.Skill is why Wladimir beat Peter and skill is why Peter beat Toney as a heavyweight.

I don't think your quite absorbing this..... Klitshcko is the BEST HW in the world, at the momemnt, but he does not have more skills than James Toney, at any weight... Weight is the key factor here, Klit would beat Toney because he is naturally much bigger.... just as Peter beat him.. but you honestly think Wlad has as many skills as James Toney?? THat is as dellusional as saying Peter beat Toney because of skill..... What made oyu say that?? Peter was so much more powerful than James, he was quite a bit larger, and could take that hardest punch James could throw(and did several timeS). If Toney could have hurt Peter badly and laughed at his best shots, do you think the fight would have been the same? Nah, nobody would... THat's where skills comes into play. Or do you think Joey Maxim was more skilled than Sugar Ray Robinson as well

We are talking about HEAVYWEIGHT skills.As a heavyweight Wladimir poseses more tools to beat other heavyweights!I have no idea what kind of skills Wladimir would have if he was under 200lbs and 5'9"!

As far as Peter yes he beat Toney using his skills as a heavyweight the key word is heavyweight.Peter put together better combinations in that fight than Toney did, that is a fact.

Chris Byrd found a way to beat legitimate heavyweights without power, he was an example of a 169lb guy who worked his way into the heavyweights and used his skills to win.

HW skills What are you talking about. At least acknowledge that skills are not limited to weight class..... So tell me, in your opinion, is Wladimir a better fighter than FLoyd Mayweather, because he has Heavyweight skills and Floyd only has welterweight skills? I mean give me a break.. SKill is about boxing, and skills are the reason James Toney was able to compete against naturally larger opponents. Wlad is naturally larger than basically everyone he has ever faced(and has still been KOEd 3 times), and has never fought anytinh close to a great HW, so he doesn't need to possess the same kind of skills in order to be successful.

I really can't figure out why you don't understand what I am saying?Are you saying Wladimir is where he is because he is big and that's it?He outboxes ALL of his opponents.James Toney was not able to compete at the same level as Wladimir has and that is a fact.I am not sure the point you were making when you mentioned he had been stopped 3 times.I am really having a hard time making sense out of your points.

I just wan't to list a few of his boxing achievements just so you can see how unskilled a boxer Wladimir is:

WBC Intercontinental Champion
(1998-02-14 - 1998-12-05; 2000-03-18 - 2000-10-14)

WBA Intercontinental Champion
(1999-11-07 - 2000-10-14, 2003-08-30 - 2004-04-10)

European Champion
1999-09-25 - 2000-10-14)

WBO World Champion
(2000-10-14 - 2003-03-10)

NABF Heavyweight Title
(2005-09-24 - 2006-04-22)

IBF World Champion
(2006-04-22)

IBO World Champion
(2006-04-22)

amateur record 134 wins out of 140 bouts

Already at the age of seventeen he became the champion of Europe among juniors, a five time boxing champion of Ukraine, Champion of the 1st World Military Games (-91kg), and the silver medallist of European Championship.His greatest achievement during amateur career - a gold medal and the rank of boxing champion in a super heavyweight division during the Olympic games of 1996 in Atlanta.

[albsur2006]

I'm not totally sold on Wlad as being the HW savior, but Wlad would destroy Toney IMO. Wlad's WAY too big and he uses his height and reach advantage almost as perfectly as anyone could. Toney couldn't get in because of Wlad's disgusting jab and a right hand would end it by the 4th or 5th round.

[Tito BHB]

Total Ownage .. James Toney is not taking his career serious, at these monstrous weights he is simply a target ! Klitchko would win inside 3 no doubt.

..geeezz lg my man what you been smoking on..
We all know whether you like him or not..James toney just does not get stopped...
Vlad could possibly win the best part of twelve rounds with jabs and left hooks..But NO ONE stops james toney..
That proposterous..
Peace

[Klitsfan]

Total Ownage .. James Toney is not taking his career serious, at these monstrous weights he is simply a target ! Klitchko would win inside 3 no doubt.

..geeezz lg my man what you been smoking on..
We all know whether you like him or not..James toney just does not get stopped...
Vlad could possibly win the best part of twelve rounds with jabs and left hooks..But NO ONE stops james toney..
That proposterous..
Peace

I can easily see Wladimir stopping Toney, what is so impossible about that?Wladimir throws straight punches nothing like the looping shots that Peter caught Toney with, also Wladimir is a much faster puncher who puts punches together with much more acuracy.

[Tito BHB]

I'm not totally sold on Wlad as being the HW savior, but Wlad would destroy Toney IMO. Wlad's WAY too big and he uses his height and reach advantage almost as perfectly as anyone could. Toney couldn't get in because of Wlad's disgusting jab and a right hand would end it by the 4th or 5th round.

Do any of you even know who toney is?
Toney has never and will never be stopped... Goddd... You think vlad could stop him...
He can outjab him and give him left hooks all night but no chance in hell does he stop james toney..
Its doesnt happen

[amat]

Now this is bs...
Why all you haters gotta do this crap..
So toney lost that fight..He is still AT LEAST.. third out of em all..
Ive been arguing my a** off and ive said..Look only vlad and sam peter take out toney..
So dont give me this he aint at least third..You tell me who else beats toney..None of those bizotches..
Its just true...
And the whole buffet stuff..Im so tired of that..He came in looking better this fight did he not?
The answer is yes..Give it a rest

Why is he #3?Because he lost to Peter twice was DQ against Ruiz eeked out a win over Rahman.He is 4-1-2 as a hevyweight!Tell me who with that kind of record would be in the top 20!

You tell me who beats him...
I scored the rahman fight for toney..And toney beats him now hands down..You saw how he came in..
Looked disgraceful
Its was there for the taking..and james took it barely in my opinion but fair play he wasnt busy enough cos he trained crap...
the ruiz fight counts for the performance..Fwok that james ruined it himself..UD.
And theres nothin to say about the rest..He's all good
Peter I he won..
Peter II fair play to sam he did enough to win the fight..
Ive answered yours you didnt answer mine
Who beats him then aside from sam and vlad?
And back it up with logic!

I don't know who beats him if he hasn't faced them yet.How can I use logic in a hypothetical argument?How many guys would be ranked in the top 3 after losing their last 2 fights?Look as Byrd!He was a title holder,lost 1 fight in 6 years and now he isn't even in the top 10!I really don't care who you think Toney could beat it it who he DOES beat that counts.

And how many people thought that the Wladimer that was beat by Brewster and looked the way he did against Williamson would have not been stopped by Sam Peter

If we judge by one night or two bad fights or close fights then we could have said Wladimer wouldn't be heavyweight champ for long couldn't we? But it's not the case is it?

Come on, it's not that hard to see that Toney is on the down. Looked like absolute crap versus Rahman, lucky to escape with a draw and then two subpar performances versus Peter. He's old, fat and on the down. Wlad was young and just not ready when he had his losses. And he has done more then enough to put those losses behind him.

[Klitsfan]

I'm not totally sold on Wlad as being the HW savior, but Wlad would destroy Toney IMO. Wlad's WAY too big and he uses his height and reach advantage almost as perfectly as anyone could. Toney couldn't get in because of Wlad's disgusting jab and a right hand would end it by the 4th or 5th round.

Do any of you even know who toney is?
Toney has never and will never be stopped... Goddd... You think vlad could stop him...
He can outjab him and give him left hooks all night but no chance in hell does he stop james toney..
Its doesnt happen

What is your reasoning that Toney can't be stopped?Why because he hasn't been knocked out in 7 heavyweight fights?He has NEVER faced a guy who hits as hard as Wladimir and is that acurate!Wladimir knocked out Shufford while Peter couldn't because Wladimir puts his punches together much better and throws straighter punches!Give me a reason why Toney could stand up to his power.

By the way the poll seems to back up my argument because so far 17 people think Wladimir would win, 12 of those people believe by KO.Only 1 person thinks Toney wins.

[Tito BHB]

I'm not totally sold on Wlad as being the HW savior, but Wlad would destroy Toney IMO. Wlad's WAY too big and he uses his height and reach advantage almost as perfectly as anyone could. Toney couldn't get in because of Wlad's disgusting jab and a right hand would end it by the 4th or 5th round.

Do any of you even know who toney is?
Toney has never and will never be stopped... Goddd... You think vlad could stop him...
He can outjab him and give him left hooks all night but no chance in hell does he stop james toney..
Its doesnt happen

What is your reasoning that Toney can't be stopped?Why because he hasn't been knocked out in 7 heavyweight fights?He has NEVER faced a guy who hits as hard as Wladimir and is that acurate!Wladimir knocked out Shufford while Peter couldn't because Wladimir puts his punches together much better and throws straighter punches!Give me a reason why Toney could stand up to his power.

I'll tell you why.. Cos no matter what weight its been he never got stopped at any of em barely even hurt..
And your right vlad sticks his punches together better then peter..Thats why he can ko someone easyer by accumulative punches..
And peter..Well fuck knows about tha fight your talkin on..But cant no one say he didnt look his best against toney the second time.. He was putting his punches together as good as they do...Even showed some nice hand speed..
And you think vlad throws overhand rights on the back of peoples head with the same power as sam..?
I know vlad dont play like that..And though peter did..He still couldnt stop toney..
No one will ever stop toney..

[cockey cockney]

I voted Wlad by KO at first when reading this thread. The more i think about it though the more i just see a Wlad decision though, like him or loath him he is fooking hard to stop, GREAT and i mean GREAT chin on him.

[Klitsfan]

I'm not totally sold on Wlad as being the HW savior, but Wlad would destroy Toney IMO. Wlad's WAY too big and he uses his height and reach advantage almost as perfectly as anyone could. Toney couldn't get in because of Wlad's disgusting jab and a right hand would end it by the 4th or 5th round.

Do any of you even know who toney is?
Toney has never and will never be stopped... Goddd... You think vlad could stop him...
He can outjab him and give him left hooks all night but no chance in hell does he stop james toney..
Its doesnt happen

What is your reasoning that Toney can't be stopped?Why because he hasn't been knocked out in 7 heavyweight fights?He has NEVER faced a guy who hits as hard as Wladimir and is that acurate!Wladimir knocked out Shufford while Peter couldn't because Wladimir puts his punches together much better and throws straighter punches!Give me a reason why Toney could stand up to his power.

I'll tell you why.. Cos no matter what weight its been he never got stopped at any of em barely even hurt..
And your right vlad sticks his punches together better then peter..Thats why he can ko someone easyer by accumulative punches..
And peter..Well F*** knows about tha fight your talkin on..But cant no one say he didnt look his best against toney the second time.. He was putting his punches together as good as they do...Even showed some nice hand speed..
And you think vlad throws overhand rights on the back of peoples head with the same power as sam..?
I know vlad dont play like that..And though peter did..He still couldnt stop toney..
No one will ever stop toney..

I can tell you Toney has never faced a guy who can throw punches like Wladimir and until he does you cant tell me he cant be KO'd.

By the way don't you think it is strange you are the only one who thinks Toney can't be knocked out.

[Tito BHB]

I'm not totally sold on Wlad as being the HW savior, but Wlad would destroy Toney IMO. Wlad's WAY too big and he uses his height and reach advantage almost as perfectly as anyone could. Toney couldn't get in because of Wlad's disgusting jab and a right hand would end it by the 4th or 5th round.

Do any of you even know who toney is?
Toney has never and will never be stopped... Goddd... You think vlad could stop him...
He can outjab him and give him left hooks all night but no chance in hell does he stop james toney..
Its doesnt happen

What is your reasoning that Toney can't be stopped?Why because he hasn't been knocked out in 7 heavyweight fights?He has NEVER faced a guy who hits as hard as Wladimir and is that acurate!Wladimir knocked out Shufford while Peter couldn't because Wladimir puts his punches together much better and throws straighter punches!Give me a reason why Toney could stand up to his power.

I'll tell you why.. Cos no matter what weight its been he never got stopped at any of em barely even hurt..
And your right vlad sticks his punches together better then peter..Thats why he can ko someone easyer by accumulative punches..
And peter..Well F*** knows about tha fight your talkin on..But cant no one say he didnt look his best against toney the second time.. He was putting his punches together as good as they do...Even showed some nice hand speed..
And you think vlad throws overhand rights on the back of peoples head with the same power as sam..?
I know vlad dont play like that..And though peter did..He still couldnt stop toney..
No one will ever stop toney..

I can tell you Toney has never faced a guy who can throw punches like Wladimir and until he does you cant tell me he cant be KO'd.

By the way don't you think it is strange you are the only one who thinks Toney can't be knocked out.

One...If anyone payed attention to me i said a clear decision for klit...
Not a whitewash..But you would know vlad won is all...
And even if it is just me telling ya'll toney doesnt get knocked out..I aint the only one..Jus ask toney

[SalTheButcher]

Now this is bs...
Why all you haters gotta do this crap..
So toney lost that fight..He is still AT LEAST.. third out of em all..
Ive been arguing my a** off and ive said..Look only vlad and sam peter take out toney..
So dont give me this he aint at least third..You tell me who else beats toney..None of those bizotches..
Its just true...
And the whole buffet stuff..Im so tired of that..He came in looking better this fight did he not?
The answer is yes..Give it a rest

Why is he #3?Because he lost to Peter twice was DQ against Ruiz eeked out a win over Rahman.He is 4-1-2 as a hevyweight!Tell me who with that kind of record would be in the top 20!

You tell me who beats him...
I scored the rahman fight for toney..And toney beats him now hands down..You saw how he came in..
Looked disgraceful
Its was there for the taking..and james took it barely in my opinion but fair play he wasnt busy enough cos he trained crap...
the ruiz fight counts for the performance..Fwok that james ruined it himself..UD.
And theres nothin to say about the rest..He's all good
Peter I he won..
Peter II fair play to sam he did enough to win the fight..
Ive answered yours you didnt answer mine
Who beats him then aside from sam and vlad?
And back it up with logic!

sultan

valuev

rjj

[Tito BHB]

Now this is bs...
Why all you haters gotta do this crap..
So toney lost that fight..He is still AT LEAST.. third out of em all..
Ive been arguing my a** off and ive said..Look only vlad and sam peter take out toney..
So dont give me this he aint at least third..You tell me who else beats toney..None of those bizotches..
Its just true...
And the whole buffet stuff..Im so tired of that..He came in looking better this fight did he not?
The answer is yes..Give it a rest

Why is he #3?Because he lost to Peter twice was DQ against Ruiz eeked out a win over Rahman.He is 4-1-2 as a hevyweight!Tell me who with that kind of record would be in the top 20!

You tell me who beats him...
I scored the rahman fight for toney..And toney beats him now hands down..You saw how he came in..
Looked disgraceful
Its was there for the taking..and james took it barely in my opinion but fair play he wasnt busy enough cos he trained crap...
the ruiz fight counts for the performance..Fwok that james ruined it himself..UD.
And theres nothin to say about the rest..He's all good
Peter I he won..
Peter II fair play to sam he did enough to win the fight..
Ive answered yours you didnt answer mine
Who beats him then aside from sam and vlad?
And back it up with logic!

sultan

valuev

rjj

Roy...Yeh i'll allow that ..just cos i love roy...But theres no way roy goes back to heavyweight again..
He already been drained from the drop down theres no way he could be as fresh and competative up there now..

Sultan.. I think sultan gets outhustled over 12 to be honest..
He showed he could get drawn into a right against austin and he'll get drawn into wanting to spark james before the fight starts at the pressers..Then james just has to show up in shape..Or even the same shape he did for the second peter fight..

Valuev..Ive typed this out alot but i truely believe toney chops him down...valuev telegraphs his shots..Has no snap to his punches and toney could come up with a game plan for that..
If thats not a good enough reason for him beating him ive emptied my mind into the thread about it..

Peace