Set the record striaht on Toney & Peter

[landmine950]

He's put himself right into the mix of the belt holders and wanna be's
Maskaev,chagaev and Rahman are all good match ups esp if rock comes back strong after a Mercer fight.
I still think he is a step below Wlad,but has gained ground on him.
And of course has a long way to go in terms of skill, ability conditioning and technique to have ANY hope of being a credible opponent for


NICOLAI VALUEV!



cuz he wouldn't be able to club HIM in the back of the melon..
Maybe work on his Golota low blow technique?

[Gandalf]

I dont actually think Toney was dominated, he got off to a poor start and then lost a lot of close rounds primarily because Peter was able to flurry towards the end of a number rounds....

Toney lost, but wasnt dominated...

Exactly!!! You are right on the money here!! I just watched the full fight and anyone that thought Peter dominated is a fool!!!!

Thanks, clicked you back

Toney landed some whopping punches in there and couldnt budge Sam Peter an inch. This was the problem, Toney just could not hurt Sam Peter and so Peter just kept on coming. Toney would land something huge and immediately Peter would be countering. Toney just didnt have the workrate to steal the rounds.

Peter is definately improving a lot. I think the Toney of this fight would have edged the Peter of the last fight, but this was an even better Peter. All the pre fight hype about Toneys fitness regime meant fewer people were focussing on just how hard Peter was training. And it showed in the ring. He fought a full 12 rounds and was dancing at the end. Credit to the man. He is realising some of that potential and he can go far if he keeps up this attitude and approach.

In fairness to Toney he is far from shot. He lost this fight, because ultimately Peter was able to improve more than he was. Peter executed the jab often doubling or tripling it up. He didnt play Toney's game on the ropes. Peter was bigger, stronger and able to throw more punches per round. Toney's conditioning was marginally better. He did fight more to the center of the ring. If Toney can continue to work on his fitness and realise it is essential to finish out his career then I think he has a few decent fights left in him. He needs to remain active and just get a win or 2 under his belt. Toney will be back.

[Wacko3205]

Peter is definately improving a lot. I think the Toney of this fight would have edged the Peter of the last fight, but this was an even better Peter. All the pre fight hype about Toneys fitness regime meant fewer people were focussing on just how hard Peter was training. And it showed in the ring. He fought a full 12 rounds and was dancing at the end. Credit to the man. He is realising some of that potential and he can go far if he keeps up this attitude and approach.

Well...I'm glad that someone's honestly coming out with it. Peter did improve & you could see that he had put in the miles & training for the match. I'm agreeing with you that he's finally realising his potential. Agreed 100% that he can go far if he keeps this attitude and approach.


That being said...don't you hate saying things like "this was an even better Peter." Heh heh heh. I mean...it kinda goes hand in hand with "Ummmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmm guuuuuurrrrl...he put up a much better fight last night. I mean Peter was rock hard & he gave it to Toney's a** all night long. It was a long, ruff night, but I loved it."

Well...maybe the two don't go hand in hand...oh god...

In fairness to Toney he is far from shot. He lost this fight, because ultimately Peter was able to improve more than he was. Peter executed the jab often doubling or tripling it up. He didnt play Toney's game on the ropes. Peter was bigger, stronger and able to throw more punches per round. Toney's conditioning was marginally better. He did fight more to the center of the ring. If Toney can continue to work on his fitness and realise it is essential to finish out his career then I think he has a few decent fights left in him. He needs to remain active and just get a win or 2 under his belt. Toney will be back.

But honestly...if he couldn't beat Samuel Peter...who everyone thinks sucks so badly...how's he going to handle someone like Wlad or some of the other top teners?

I'd love to see Toney revitalize his potential & take on a new attitude by dropping back down to 200lbs & fighting as a cruiser again.

That's where JFAT belongs, IWO.

[Gandalf]

Peter is definately improving a lot. I think the Toney of this fight would have edged the Peter of the last fight, but this was an even better Peter. All the pre fight hype about Toneys fitness regime meant fewer people were focussing on just how hard Peter was training. And it showed in the ring. He fought a full 12 rounds and was dancing at the end. Credit to the man. He is realising some of that potential and he can go far if he keeps up this attitude and approach.

Well...I'm glad that someone's honestly coming out with it. Peter did improve & you could see that he had put in the miles & training for the match. I'm agreeing with you that he's finally realising his potential. Agreed 100% that he can go far if he keeps this attitude and approach.


That being said...don't you hate saying things like "this was an even better Peter." Heh heh heh. I mean...it kinda goes hand in hand with "Ummmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmm guuuuuurrrrl...he put up a much better fight last night. I mean Peter was rock hard & he gave it to Toney's a** all night long. It was a long, ruff night, but I loved it."

Well...maybe the two don't go hand in hand...oh god...

In fairness to Toney he is far from shot. He lost this fight, because ultimately Peter was able to improve more than he was. Peter executed the jab often doubling or tripling it up. He didnt play Toney's game on the ropes. Peter was bigger, stronger and able to throw more punches per round. Toney's conditioning was marginally better. He did fight more to the center of the ring. If Toney can continue to work on his fitness and realise it is essential to finish out his career then I think he has a few decent fights left in him. He needs to remain active and just get a win or 2 under his belt. Toney will be back.

But honestly...if he couldn't beat Samuel Peter...who everyone thinks sucks so badly...how's he going to handle someone like Wlad or some of the other top teners?

I'd love to see Toney revitalize his potential & take on a new attitude by dropping back down to 200lbs & fighting as a cruiser again.

That's where JFAT belongs, IWO.

Clicked you back, despite the vomit inducing thoughts of Toney being on the recieving end of Peter!

I dont think Peter sucks and have never thought that way. I certainly thought he was extremely limited going into the Wlad fight, but he managed to put Wlad down 3 times (though a couple of those were dubious). Prior to the 1st Peter fight, I did think that that was the most dangerous fight since Toney stepped up to heavyweight. I thought Toney won that fight and though Peter showed obvious development, I thought a better conditioned Toney could decision Peter in the rematch.

I dont think it is a matter of Toney being on the slide here, it is definately that Peter is showing genuine skill.

At this point Wlad is too much for Toney. To be honest I rank Peter 2nd behind Wlad amongst all the heavies now. No way does he suck. Potentially he can improve on his last fight with Wlad and win a rematch. Potentially. If he can come this far in 2 fights, he can make a lot of progress in the next year.

As for Toney, well, I think cruiserweight is too much to expect of him and especially at his age. He should keep on with his fitness regime, work on that stamina and have a couple of tune ups in the first half of this year...

Maybe then he can have 1 final step up..

[The Shadow]

Alrighty then. We'll agree that everyone but me thinks that Peter's punches to the back of the head are not all intentional nor all his fault.

Anywho...we agree that Sam-U-El is going to bring some excitement back to the division. We agree he is improving, right? We agree that he beat Toney, right?

What does that say about James Toney then?
Also...who's gonna beat him...outside of Wlad...because that's already happened.

Not trying to be catty...just wanting to discuss...because we aint been involved in one of these ole' debates in a loooooooooooong time.

No, not all of the rabbit punches are intentional. I'm not even sure if any of them are intentional. He looked better in the last fight and looked a bit better defensively.
Toney did lose the last fight. Don't think even the most ardent Toney fan could argue with that.
In the end, I think it says much of what many of us have already been saying:
Toney didn't come in better conditioned for this fight; yes, a bit more solid, but no leg movement.
Toney is a lazy fat-ass who should hang his head in shame.

I'm far from sold on Peter, but to be objective, I would have to admit that he's a lot better. After boxing with some of the best in the division, he can't help but to improve.
I think Peter has a good chance of beating most title holders at this point. Although I think Klitschko would be his toughest test. But strangely I see some of the previous title holders giving him problems, e.g. Byrd, and swallow whatever you're drinking before you read further...Ruiz. Those clinch and punch styles seem to present problems for Peter.

I haven't made my mind up on Peter yet. There's still more to come and more to see. I'm not entirely convinced that he'll walk through Maskaev either, although Maskaev's chin is not Toney's chin, he does hit much harder than Toney. I'm sure that Peter will win the fight, though. That is, if it actually happens.

[Wacko3205]

I'm far from sold on Peter, but to be objective, I would have to admit that he's a lot better. After boxing with some of the best in the division, he can't help but to improve.
I think Peter has a good chance of beating most title holders at this point. Although I think Klitschko would be his toughest test. But strangely I see some of the previous title holders giving him problems, e.g. Byrd, and swallow whatever you're drinking before you read further...Ruiz. Those clinch and punch styles seem to present problems for Peter.

Here's the thing...I like Peter ( ). He's damned entertaining & you never know exactly what you are going to get...& now even more so...especially if he continues to improve. He showed a lot of improvement over a three month span of time.

good point that you made (you might not have even known that you made it) when you said : "After boxing with some of the best in the division, he can't help but to improve." I agree with you on Byrd giving him problems...but not Ruiz...I think that he'd knock Johnny bwoyz head clean the fwock offa his shoulders...well...one can only hope...& pray...& what the hell...even sacrifice a lamb or some shit. Whatever it takes.

That's dead on the money...but imagine what he could do with a good trainer. That's my one liner for pleading Sam Peter's case...& I come off like a broken record with that one. He's just a blank canvas that apparently learned to either adapt quickly off of some tapes on Toney or somebody worked with him on the sly. He just picked up some defense & accuracy a bit too quickly for me to think that it was 100% offa the first fight with Toney...even though I do agree with you that he learns from fighting the best...I just can't see that that's the answer...but I could be wrong.

I haven't made my mind up on Peter yet. There's still more to come and more to see.

Haven't made your mind up on Peter yet, huh? Easy...be careful what you say...heh heh heh. I know that it's a bit juvenille...but it is quite amusing...you must admit. CuteMick got me with those Peter jabs...errrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm...scratch that... .

I'm not entirely convinced that he'll walk through Maskaev either, although Maskaev's chin is not Toney's chin, he does hit much harder than Toney. I'm sure that Peter will win the fight, though. That is, if it actually happens.

You know what...as you said early & as I agreed...I aint 100% sold on Peter Samuel either.

I go back & forth with my thoughts on Maskaev & his future opponents. Maskaev could be the odd man out in the group...he could be the one that shocks us all.

Look at it like this...the old man's been to hell & back with his career. He's gone through all the ups & downs & now he's back & seemingly more confident than ever. Maskaev's got the experience...then again...so did Toney...but again...as you said...Maskaev can crack.

I still want to say that Sam wins...but again...I could be wrong. Have been before.

Also... . Nice discussion with some well debated points. Cheers.

[cockey cockney]

Well i think Toney won the first fight. I think Peter definitely won the 2nd, but Toney wasnt embarrased. I unlike most on this board, like Toney and think he was a greatly gifted boxer, shame about his motivation to always get into shape.

[The Shadow]

Well i think Toney won the first fight. I think Peter definitely won the 2nd, but Toney wasnt embarrased. I unlike most on this board, like Toney and think he was a greatly gifted boxer, shame about his motivation to always get into shape.

Very true, brother!! and of course a to the man himself, the always loveable (but not in the way) wacky!!!!