Best Unorthodox Defenses

[spekterscript]

There's a good youtube video on Whitaker's defense. My favorite parts are the DLH clips when Oscar throws his wild flurries to steal rounds where he throws about 8 or 9 punches, lands maybe 1, and then pumps his fist while Lampley creams his pants.

[youtube=425,350]_G5v_PNsl4Q[/youtube]

Great clip. CC when I get 100. You from the tidewater area SweetPea?

[Tito BHB]

i don't consider toney or PBF to have unorthadox defenses

Really?

Well they do..No doubt about it...You need some serious skill to pull of the shoulder roll and counters teqnique....
James becuase it works so well with his punching style..And Floyd because i once saw him do it for at least 30 40 seconds strait under none stop punches..Just roll away from the left capture the right over and over against phillip Ndou..
Very nice...
Seriously one ina million can use this type of defence and be effective at total world class level...
And considering neither fighter has been stopped..But if your not on the money with it your open..
That is really something.

[The Boxer]

for those Whitaker clips. feel free to post anymore you find.

[landmine950]

i don't consider toney or PBF to have unorthadox defenses

Really?

Well they do..No doubt about it...You need some serious skill to pull of the shoulder roll and counters teqnique....
James becuase it works so well with his punching style..And Floyd because i once saw him do it for at least 30 40 seconds strait under none stop punches..Just roll away from the left capture the right over and over against phillip Ndou..
Very nice...
Seriously one ina million can use this type of defence and be effective at total world class level...
And considering neither fighter has been stopped..But if your not on the money with it your open..
That is really something.

Toney has a unique defense,its hard to duplicate because of the requirements.

first. lose a fight and then complain for a rematch

1) come in hugley bloated and overweight.
2) have a lethargic punch output
3) bend WAY over and expose the back of your head to your opponent
4) when he pounds ya in the back of the melon,whine like crazy.
5) after you lose,show no respect & complain about the judging
6) act like you accomplished something because the guys bigger than you,you used to be small and in shape long ago, and even tho' he beat you from piller to post and knocked you down in the second. Since he didn't actually KO your fat ass,you somehow earned a "moral" victory.

Add to this the stubling around the ring all off balance and there you have it!
The JAMES TONEY SHUFFLE!

[The Boxer]

i don't consider toney or PBF to have unorthadox defenses

Really?

Well they do..No doubt about it...You need some serious skill to pull of the shoulder roll and counters teqnique....
James becuase it works so well with his punching style..And Floyd because i once saw him do it for at least 30 40 seconds strait under none stop punches..Just roll away from the left capture the right over and over against phillip Ndou..
Very nice...
Seriously one ina million can use this type of defence and be effective at total world class level...
And considering neither fighter has been stopped..But if your not on the money with it your open..
That is really something.

the move that PBF and toney use aren't unorthodox. alot of fighters use those moves. it's just that there really good.

[Tito BHB]

Landmine this is getting wayyy old now...
This is a serious topic... why do you have to go putting silly comments?
Its a joke..I mean if you had something worth while to say then feel free...But its just rip this fighter rip that fighter..It gets boring...

i don't consider toney or PBF to have unorthadox defenses

Really?

Well they do..No doubt about it...You need some serious skill to pull of the shoulder roll and counters teqnique....
James becuase it works so well with his punching style..And Floyd because i once saw him do it for at least 30 40 seconds strait under none stop punches..Just roll away from the left capture the right over and over against phillip Ndou..
Very nice...
Seriously one ina million can use this type of defence and be effective at total world class level...
And considering neither fighter has been stopped..But if your not on the money with it your open..
That is really something.

the move that PBF and toney use aren't unorthodox. alot of fighters use those moves. it's just that there really good.

Well...Perhaps..But i wouldnt consider the moves that everyone else tries to make effective as the same things..Its one thing doing it ..a complete other mastering it.. Its certainly not normal and household skills for sure..But i see where you come from.. Its likely that when they learned this stuff it was very distinctly unorthadox..But since so many people have tried to duplicate it ..Its become somewhat norm...

Another guy is Prince naseem...Used to lean at such funny angles and come up with very dangerous shots....Unless your something seriously special you dont wana throw uppercuts at such a long range like naz did..lol

[SweetPea]

One more thing about Whitaker's defense. One stat that always stuck out to me was that Pernell had a 20 fight span in his career where his opponents combined to land only 25% of their punches.
And these 20 fights were during his prime when he was fighting nothing but world champs and #1 contenders, it wasn't early in his career when he was fighting stepping-stone guys. And it's not like he made these guys miss because he focused on nothing but defense, he would make guys miss and throw 70-80 punches of his own each round.
I remember they kept showing the 25% stat during the Tito fight, because by then Whitaker was old, out of shape, and abusing cocaine, and it had stripped him of all his speed and reflexes. Tito landed something like 65% of his punches that night, which is incredible in any fight, but it was even more amazing because Tito did it against a guy who had been unhittable his entire career.

[landmine950]

Landmine this is getting wayyy old now...
This is a serious topic... why do you have to go putting silly comments?
Its a joke..I mean if you had something worth while to say then feel free...But its just rip this fighter rip that fighter..It gets boring...

i don't consider toney or PBF to have unorthadox defenses

Really?

Well they do..No doubt about it...You need some serious skill to pull of the shoulder roll and counters teqnique....
James becuase it works so well with his punching style..And Floyd because i once saw him do it for at least 30 40 seconds strait under none stop punches..Just roll away from the left capture the right over and over against phillip Ndou..
Very nice...
Seriously one ina million can use this type of defence and be effective at total world class level...
And considering neither fighter has been stopped..But if your not on the money with it your open..
That is really something.

the move that PBF and toney use aren't unorthodox. alot of fighters use those moves. it's just that there really good.

Well...Perhaps..But i wouldnt consider the moves that everyone else tries to make effective as the same things..Its one thing doing it ..a complete other mastering it.. Its certainly not normal and household skills for sure..But i see where you come from.. Its likely that when they learned this stuff it was very distinctly unorthadox..But since so many people have tried to duplicate it ..Its become somewhat norm...

Another guy is Prince naseem...Used to lean at such funny angles and come up with very dangerous shots....Unless your something seriously special you dont wana throw uppercuts at such a long range like naz did..lol

Wondered how long it would take you to flip if i dissed your man!
LOL
But seriously.. His defensive style is mastery,chin tuck and shoulder roll.
But the side bob doesnt work against taller guys. He wasn't able to adapt to peter's improvements,and did come up too square and did slip due to being off balance and was off balance quite a bit.
I'd really like to see him down at cruiser. He's gain speed, and have enough POP that his counters (that he landed perfectly flush against peter)
would have a much greater effect.
THEN his defensive skills would shine again....IMO

[Scrap]

I think in the 60s Boxing had an identity crises caused by the Russians. There teams use to come west and do well, and we tried to copy to an extent their basics, without looking into the rudiments of why they did so well. Being over 24 with 200 fights and not being sure what was being put in them. The techniques lingered we copied ,there basics are still copied today in Amatuer Seminars. All the fighters you mention are old school taught, sometimes new is not better.

[Tito BHB]

Landmine this is getting wayyy old now...
This is a serious topic... why do you have to go putting silly comments?
Its a joke..I mean if you had something worth while to say then feel free...But its just rip this fighter rip that fighter..It gets boring...

i don't consider toney or PBF to have unorthadox defenses

Really?

Well they do..No doubt about it...You need some serious skill to pull of the shoulder roll and counters teqnique....
James becuase it works so well with his punching style..And Floyd because i once saw him do it for at least 30 40 seconds strait under none stop punches..Just roll away from the left capture the right over and over against phillip Ndou..
Very nice...
Seriously one ina million can use this type of defence and be effective at total world class level...
And considering neither fighter has been stopped..But if your not on the money with it your open..
That is really something.

the move that PBF and toney use aren't unorthodox. alot of fighters use those moves. it's just that there really good.

Well...Perhaps..But i wouldnt consider the moves that everyone else tries to make effective as the same things..Its one thing doing it ..a complete other mastering it.. Its certainly not normal and household skills for sure..But i see where you come from.. Its likely that when they learned this stuff it was very distinctly unorthadox..But since so many people have tried to duplicate it ..Its become somewhat norm...

Another guy is Prince naseem...Used to lean at such funny angles and come up with very dangerous shots....Unless your something seriously special you dont wana throw uppercuts at such a long range like naz did..lol

Wondered how long it would take you to flip if i dissed your man!
LOL
But seriously.. His defensive style is mastery,chin tuck and shoulder roll.
But the side bob doesnt work against taller guys. He wasn't able to adapt to peter's improvements,and did come up too square and did slip due to being off balance and was off balance quite a bit.
I'd really like to see him down at cruiser. He's gain speed, and have enough POP that his counters (that he landed perfectly flush against peter)
would have a much greater effect.
THEN his defensive skills would shine again....IMO

Lol Your a big tease !!

But your right toney would dominate at cruiser but i firmly doubt toney will ever have to make weight again...

[landmine950]

It's really a shame too!
He would earn back the respect of so many fans,and secure his legacy and his Hall of FAme spot!

A RJJ rematch? Byrd? lots of possabilities! and a belt at cruiser would be a strong stepping stone . from there it would be.
Go directly to HW belt match,do not pass go, DO collect 10 million dollars!

[Tito BHB]

It's really a shame too!
He would earn back the respect of so many fans,and secure his legacy and his Hall of FAme spot!

A RJJ rematch? Byrd? lots of possabilities! and a belt at cruiser would be a strong stepping stone . from there it would be.
Go directly to HW belt match,do not pass go, DO collect 10 million dollars!

The cruiserweight division is alot bigger now then it was when he fought jirov too..

Theres some good fighters made some big names up there..Mormeck, o niel bell, David haye..Enzo mac
Plenty of options and even with him coming off losses they would all be underdogs to a Shapely toney.

He looked better after working with blanks for sure... But im not sure how blanks could possibly help him drop weight and still be strong..

[BrooklyniteQueen]

who said Hamed earlier

Well there's one fight on youtube where he was defensively great but he isnt really known for defense I dont think

[youtube=425,350]5IVYILZbHRw[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]ILowbdC-iz0[/youtube]

More to do with reflex but unorthodox and defense it is.

[Taeth]

One more thing about Whitaker's defense. One stat that always stuck out to me was that Pernell had a 20 fight span in his career where his opponents combined to land only 25% of their punches.
And these 20 fights were during his prime when he was fighting nothing but world champs and #1 contenders, it wasn't early in his career when he was fighting stepping-stone guys. And it's not like he made these guys miss because he focused on nothing but defense, he would make guys miss and throw 70-80 punches of his own each round.
I remember they kept showing the 25% stat during the Tito fight, because by then Whitaker was old, out of shape, and abusing cocaine, and it had stripped him of all his speed and reflexes. Tito landed something like 65% of his punches that night, which is incredible in any fight, but it was even more amazing because Tito did it against a guy who had been unhittable his entire career.

He was hit higher by % than Mayweather who is below 20%, but like I said PBF isn't in the running IMO because he has sound technical defense while Whitaker wins this competition because he is truly unique in his defense. The only thing unique about PBF's defense is how well he can change it up from having his hands up high to using his shoulder to using footwork and reflexes.

[Tito BHB]

yEh I mentioned hamed... Alot to do with reflex and somewhat to do with that arrogance that get em off theyr game... He sure is a hell of a bastard... But with skill like that..It could only help him...

Love that vid one of my favourite naz fights in fact..Cc for the vid Pgh.
Peace