Valuev's record BETTER? than Marciano's??

[Lance Uppercut]

Fighters in Marcianos days did not have padded records like today. So which opponent has more losses is misleading.

[X]

Boxing is not about numbers.

Personally, I think the salient point is Marciano was UNDISPUTED world champ and Valuev just holds an alphabet title. Would we be talking about him at all if he was just a top ten contender with one undisputed champ ruling the division?

[The Shadow]

I agree with the stats part..I do it cuz I find it interesting.

Of course the guy will have had most of his fights in his home country.
And at first he wouldn't be out looking for world beaters, and germany is a hot spot for boxing in Europe as well.
BUT the guy has been around, thats one of the things i kinda liked about him.
Not as bad as like the Argentinian guys at 30-0 who only fought Argentinians in Argentina

Take a look!
Russia 16
germany 14
Australia 4
USA 3
japan 2
england 2
Czech republic 2
Ukraine 1
Korea 1
Switzerland 1
Belarus 1


As for the bums? what about the last 14 guys I listed? All bums?
if they are then thats what EVERYONE in the div is fighting!

I find the stat analysis interesting to, albeit a bit misleading. No, I certainly can't say that his last 14 opponents were bums, but they certainly weren't world-beaters by any stretch of the imagination. To be honest, his toughest challenges to date have been against John Ruiz and McCline. My comment about the Euro system was only trying to indicate that until of late, most HW champs were using America as their adopted homeland...many of the greats were native born. But I'm sure that there is a Euro-Slugger that will come into the spotlight soon. Boxing has become much more of a global sport over the past years.

[bigragu]

I was getting bored so I started a post.
I have noticed how Google images used to have 2 pages of images under Valuev,then 4 then 10 now like 25.
Public intrest is spreading

I would like comments on the statistical analysis.....oh..oh..
Lyle gets a chubby whenever he reads that word,,It has the word anal in it

you failed to notice that Marciano's opponents also won TWICE as many fights as Valuev's.......some of those losses might be contributed to taking fights way to early...back then they fought with more frequency than we do now.....and what exactly was their record before they fought Marciano?? were those records for their entire career or to just before they fought Marciano?

[Kev]

I always thought Rocky Marciano was a bit overrated but even so you still can't compare Valuev's record to his.

Valuev has fought only two fighters with any sort of name recognition in former champ John Ruiz and Jameel McCline.

The facts.

His 'win' over John Ruiz was booed even by the German fans who felt the result was a farce!

His 'win' over Jameel McCline came courtesy of a knee injury to McCline in a round in which he was kicking Valuevs ass!

More facts.

John Ruiz is the only heavyweight in the history of boxing to have ever lost a title fight to a middleweight. He managed this extraordinary feat not once but twice!


Jameel McCline was beaten by Zuri Lawrence a fighter KO'd in two rounds by the notroriously mediocre Dominic Guinn last week. Lawrence also boasts the 'proud' record of 0 KO's having never knocked an opponent out in his entire career. He himself has been KTFO in both his last two fights however!

[ono]

Win percentage does not mean anything. Rocky fought top tier contenders. Granted it wasn't the strongest bunch but they were the top dog's nonetheless.

And granted he fought them when they were on their way out so its hard to tell.

[BoxingGorilla]

The first thing that enters in my mind is how the facts you stated actually work against your point.

Marciano fought people with more losses because they fought men like Marciano.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Well done to landmine950 for taking the time and effort to compile such a list to attempt to make a comparison!!!!
However my analysis will be founded on a much less acute system...my own opinion.

This question is intriguing as we are speaking of two virtual opposites:
Marciano a compact(avoiding the words small or undersized) immenesly powerful fighter of perpetual motion.
And Valuev the enormous (again avoiding alternate wording!) strong but slow and deliberate fighter.

As Marciano is a bonafide legend and Valuev is still something of an entertaining oddity let us just consider 2of eachs most noted wins. Joe Walcott Ezzard Charles VS Monte Barrett Jameel McCline

Sorry no point continuing a KO win for Rocky

[Brockton Bomber]

If I actually knew how to SC someone. I would do it to the guy who started this thread.

Rocky Marciano- Top 3 all time HW.

Valuev- Don King circus Monkey.

Nuff said.

[CutMeMick]

I was getting bored so I started a post.
I have noticed how Google images used to have 2 pages of images under Valuev,then 4 then 10 now like 25.
Public intrest is spreading

Yeah! that or the fact that you're the ONLY one loading up every single picture yourself.

[landmine950]

Could it be? ...Naw....ridiculous......or is it??

For the statistical analysis, which is interesting in and of itself. However, these stats are a bit deceptive. Almost all of Valuev's fights have taken place overseas in Germany and Russia. Many of the fighters on his resume are suspect just because they fought in protected environments and have been shielded from proper high-tier competition.
That being said, Marciano fought and beat American fighters with much more ring experience. Even in light of their losses, Valuev's career has been mainly bolstered by fighting relatively inexperienced Euro-Bums. The fact of the matter is that he hasn't impressed thusfar and making a comparison between him and Marciano is a bit of a stretch to say the least. Statistical analysis doesn't always show the entire story.

Its true that Marciano mostly fought Americans. Travel was mostly by boat to fight in Europe. So you could say that he competed against a much smaller talent pool. Sort of The best Fighters in USA vs the best fighters in the world.
Certainly the HW champion of the world today is truly that. And every sphere of the globe has a MUCH deeper base of fighers competeing for regional belts etc.

[CutMeMick]

If I actually knew how to SC someone. I would do it to the guy who started this thread.

Rocky Marciano- Top 3 all time HW.

Valuev- Don King circus Monkey.

Nuff said.

You gotta have 100 posts untill you can 'sad click' someone you'll be there soon.

[CutMeMick]

I just finished reading the entire thread and everytime I read your posts landmine950 a part of me died slowly......

[landmine950]

I was getting bored so I started a post.
I have noticed how Google images used to have 2 pages of images under Valuev,then 4 then 10 now like 25.
Public intrest is spreading

I would like comments on the statistical analysis.....oh..oh..
Lyle gets a chubby whenever he reads that word,,It has the word anal in it

Have you anything to say about the fact that Valuev has fought 23 fighters with only 10 total fights?

and the fact that only 36 of the 46 guys he fought have winning records

and the fact that 6 of the 46 guys he fought had never won a fight?

As I stated the records for Valuev's early fights are not available. They are listed as 0-0-0 for 5 of the fighters.
So that alone brings your numbers down.

removing those unknowns we see that of 46 fights.
ONLY 4 have more losses than wins!
and they were ALL in his first 13 fights
And only 2 fighters had records without a win.
his 7th and 10th fights 0-2, 0-1


Thats why i took the last 25 fighters

Every fighter starts off fighting guys with 0,1,2,3 or so fights when its your pro debut. Esp if you have no AMATUER BACKGROUND.

[The Shadow]

Could it be? ...Naw....ridiculous......or is it??

For the statistical analysis, which is interesting in and of itself. However, these stats are a bit deceptive. Almost all of Valuev's fights have taken place overseas in Germany and Russia. Many of the fighters on his resume are suspect just because they fought in protected environments and have been shielded from proper high-tier competition.
That being said, Marciano fought and beat American fighters with much more ring experience. Even in light of their losses, Valuev's career has been mainly bolstered by fighting relatively inexperienced Euro-Bums. The fact of the matter is that he hasn't impressed thusfar and making a comparison between him and Marciano is a bit of a stretch to say the least. Statistical analysis doesn't always show the entire story.

Its true that Marciano only fought Americans. Travel was by boat to fight in Europe. So you could say that he competed against a much smaller talent pool. The best Figters in USA vs the best fighters in the world.
Certainly the HW champion of the world today is truly that. And every sphere of the globe has a MUCH deeper base of fighers competeing for regional belts etc.

That didn't stop Primo Carnera or Max Schmelling from coming over here, and I'm pretty sure that Schmelling flew.