Should Shane Mosley be P4P top 10 once again?

[El Gamo]

JMM was robbed against John,totally and completely.In fact he was robbed v Norwood too.

And thats a huge assumption about Oscar beating Spinks,Kamazin and Simms(whom I believe would confuse and frustrate Oscar). No way is Oscar there,I've actually never seen a P4P list with Oscar in it apart from yours,even Mick,the NUMERO UNO Oscar fan does not have him there! And just because he has a chance to dethrone Floyd doesn't make a difference!Fighting above his natural weight is impressive but I would have thought he would have beaten Sturm easier.and his biggest win in 3 years is Mayorga,that is NOT p4p quality!

B Hop's win against Tarver was good but I think Adamek and few other guys would hurt Tarver too.

And Rafael Marquez would KTFO most guys in a street fight,I mean have you seen the size of that guys knuckles?! WTF!!

[ono]

Yes, cause he was @ 154 and won 2 fights there then came down to 147 and won there.....

Heres how I have my P4P list as of yesterday....

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Pac
4. MAB
5. JMM
6. R.Marquez
7. JTaylor
8. Hatton
9. Joe C.
10. *SSM


*I had JLC rated at #10, but after yesterdays win SMM takes the #1o spot IMO.

1. Mayweather
2. Wright
3. Pacquiao
4. Barrera
5. Calzaghe
6. Taylor
7. Hopkins
8. Mosely
9. De La Hoya
10.Cotto


Just fixed it for you

JMM has only fought two recognisable fighters in the past 2 years, losing to one and drawing with the other.

R.Marquez hasn't beaten anyone of meritr since Tim Austin, plus he seems to have a thing for beating up on the same fighter twice.

Hatton should change his name to Paper Cutter considering he only fights against C level paper chumps.

The rest was ok though

I don't get how hopkins and taylor can be on it. Considering hopkins has won only 1 of his last 3 fights i think you should just stick with taylor. Beating Tarver doesn't mean much too me. He's not all that.

[ono]

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

[Kev]

JMM was robbed against John,totally and completely.In fact he was robbed v Norwood too.

And thats a huge assumption about Oscar beating Spinks,Kamazin and Simms(whom I believe would confuse and frustrate Oscar). No way is Oscar there,I've actually never seen a P4P list with Oscar in it apart from yours,even Mick,the NUMERO UNO Oscar fan does not have him there! And just because he has a chance to dethrone Floyd doesn't make a difference!Fighting above his natural weight is impressive but I would have thought he would have beaten Sturm easier.and his biggest win in 3 years is Mayorga,that is NOT p4p quality!

B Hop's win against Tarver was good but I think Adamek and few other guys would hurt Tarver too.

And Rafael Marquez would KTFO most guys in a street fight,I mean have you seen the size of that guys knuckles?! WTF!!

Gotta give you a for this quote, And Rafael Marquez would KTFO most guys in a street fight,I mean have you seen the size of that guys knuckles?! WTF!!

You really are the true Statto of the board to notice the size of a fighters knuckles.

[p4pking]

Basically it comes down to whether you weigh accomplishments higher than a fighters abilities and skill in the ring. Personally I would say that Bilbo's list is fine. DLH, Hopkins, and Mosley may not have all been very active against world beaters as of late.. But I think they are 3 of the best fighters p4p in the world, regardless. For instance, to have Hatton ranked over Hopkins or Mosley at this stage just does my head in. He beat Tszyu what, 2 years ago... And since then hasn't faced anyone who is even close to p4p status. Now if I felt he was one of the 10 best fighters in the world Id have him on my list anyways, but I simply see no way he is better than say, Mosley, Hopkins, DLH, Israel Vasquez, either Marquez brother, etc. My top 10 p4p, for what it's worth.

1. Mayweather- pretty clear cut.
2.Winky- He and Pac are interchangable for 2 and 3...
3.Pacman- Except, I remember most had Pac 3rd behind Winkster after he stopped MOrales in the rematch. The 3rd fight showed us nothing new imo.
4. Calzaghe- How anyone in their right mind would have him towards the end of the list, let alone behind Hatton, baffles me. He's a great fighter, who admittedly needs a big win. But like I said, Id rather judge a fighter by what I see than on a what have you done for me basis..
5.Hopkins- Shouldn't have dropped off the list after losing to Taylor, but for what it's worth Tarver was ranked no.8 p4p in the world by Ring Mag before Hopkins beat him.
6. R.Marquez- This guy is a monster, can't wait for him to fight Vasquez.
7. Barrera- He has probably been off the top 10 list for a total of 3 weeks in the last 10 years, and still chugging along. Cant wait for him to fight Marquez, but worry he could get old very quickly now.
8. Mosley- Still have to see last nights fight, but unless Wacko was that shitfaced , it sounds like he was very impressive and back on form.
9. Israel Vasquez- Complete warrior. Really really love to watch this guy, he has a great resume and is underrated.. Plus to take Ghonzales and now R Marquez back to back is insane.
10. Jermain Taylor- for me he's just scraping by, needs to really come out and make a statement imo. You could say but he got a draw with Winky.. Well, I think he lost, and that the only reason he did as well as he was able to is because he is a bigger man.

HM: Juan M Marquez, Ricky Hatton, Jhonny ghonzales, Ivan Calderon, Jorge Arce.

[p4pking]

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

[ono]

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

So why the fuck do you have jermain 'bad fuckin intentions' taylor at number 10?

[Kev]

Basically it comes down to whether you weigh accomplishments higher than a fighters abilities and skill in the ring. Personally I would say that Bilbo's list is fine. DLH, Hopkins, and Mosley may not have all been very active against world beaters as of late.. But I think they are 3 of the best fighters p4p in the world, regardless. For instance, to have Hatton ranked over Hopkins or Mosley at this stage just does my head in. He beat Tszyu what, 2 years ago... And since then hasn't faced anyone who is even close to p4p status. Now if I felt he was one of the 10 best fighters in the world Id have him on my list anyways, but I simply see no way he is better than say, Mosley, Hopkins, DLH, Israel Vasquez, either Marquez brother, etc. My top 10 p4p, for what it's worth.

1. Mayweather- pretty clear cut.
2.Winky- He and Pac are interchangable for 2 and 3...
3.Pacman- Except, I remember most had Pac 3rd behind Winkster after he stopped MOrales in the rematch. The 3rd fight showed us nothing new imo.
4. Calzaghe- How anyone in their right mind would have him towards the end of the list, let alone behind Hatton, baffles me. He's a great fighter, who admittedly needs a big win. But like I said, Id rather judge a fighter by what I see than on a what have you done for me basis..
5.Hopkins- Shouldn't have dropped off the list after losing to Taylor, but for what it's worth Tarver was ranked no.8 p4p in the world by Ring Mag before Hopkins beat him.
6. R.Marquez- This guy is a monster, can't wait for him to fight Vasquez.
7. Barrera- He has probably been off the top 10 list for a total of 3 weeks in the last 10 years, and still chugging along. Cant wait for him to fight Marquez, but worry he could get old very quickly now.
8. Mosley- Still have to see last nights fight, but unless Wacko was that shitfaced , it sounds like he was very impressive and back on form.
9. Israel Vasquez- Complete warrior. Really really love to watch this guy, he has a great resume and is underrated.. Plus to take Ghonzales and now R Marquez back to back is insane.
10. Jermain Taylor- for me he's just scraping by, needs to really come out and make a statement imo. You could say but he got a draw with Winky.. Well, I think he lost, and that the only reason he did as well as he was able to is because he is a bigger man.

HM: Juan M Marquez, Ricky Hatton, Jhonny ghonzales, Ivan Calderon, Jorge Arce.

I like your list p4pking. To me Taylor isn't all that either but he's got the decisions whether we agree with them or not so a win and two draws against Hopkins and Wright by far the top two middleweights in the last 5 or 6 years then he needs to be ranked.

I agree with Calzaghe as well, he's rated below Hatton by nearly everybody which to me is just crazy, Calzaghe has skills!

I will go with you and El Gamo regarding R Marquez, I just don't know enough about to him to be honest.

JMM gets a chance to break into the top 10 with a win over Barrera, in fact he would go in pretty high , around 6 or 7 I think.

I expect Vasquez to be handled easily by R Marquez to be honest.

[GAME]

Mosley defo is top 10 p4p . He replaces Castillo who I dont think really deserved it anyway based on who he's beat . I dont think he beat Casa . He lost twice to Floyd . His only win over Chico was when he didnt have to make weight and Chico did and plus Castillo looked poor last time

But anyway back to Mosley . He's always been top 10 since the lightweight days regardless of his results . He's consistantly been one of teh best fighters in the world and is far from done yet . Floyd knows he is the danger man out there .

[Kev]

Mosley defo is top 10 p4p . He replaces Castillo who I dont think really deserved it anyway based on who he's beat . I dont think he beat Casa . He lost twice to Floyd . His only win over Chico was when he didnt have to make weight and Chico did and plus Castillo looked poor last time

But anyway back to Mosley . He's always been top 10 since the lightweight days regardless of his results . He's consistantly been one of teh best fighters in the world and is far from done yet . Floyd knows he is the danger man out there .

A well deserved to you sir!

Glad to see somebody else on this board who doesn't hug on Castillo's nutsacks.

[p4pking]

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

So why the F*** do you have jermain 'bad F****** intentions' taylor at number 10?

He beat hopkins the second time, after a very very competitive first fight that I thought Hopkins edged out.. Then fought to a draw in a very close fight against WRight. Again, I thought he lost by a round or so.. But the fact is, that at the time those were the number 1 and 2 p4p fighters in the world, almost undeniably, and he still hasn't lost. Hell why do you think after fighting #1 and 2, I only have him at number 10? Im not saying he's looked great. But he took the 3 hardest possible fights in a row and did fairly well for himself in each. Sure if Hatton had beaten Tszyu yesterday Id proably have him in the middle of the list, but the fact is it wasn't, and since then he has not only fought mediocre opposition, but looked average doing it. I think he is already on the slide, to be honest.

[CutMeMick]

Yes, cause he was @ 154 and won 2 fights there then came down to 147 and won there.....

Heres how I have my P4P list as of yesterday....

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Pac
4. MAB
5. JMM
6. R.Marquez
7. JTaylor
8. Hatton
9. Joe C.
10. *SSM


*I had JLC rated at #10, but after yesterdays win SMM takes the #1o spot IMO.

1. Mayweather
2. Wright
3. Pacquiao
4. Barrera
5. Calzaghe - Too high, IMO and fighting Peter will do nothing for him on my list.
6. Taylor
7. Hopkins - Lost 2 of his last 3 bouts, IMO does not belong on this list.
8. Mosely - Too high.
9. De La Hoya - Oscars my boy but top 10 P4P NO.....
10.Cotto - Cottos my boy and I could see this but to me he needs just 1 more win and surely he'll be here....


Just fixed it for you

JMM has only fought two recognisable fighters in the past 2 years, losing to one and drawing with the other.

R.Marquez hasn't beaten anyone of meritr since Tim Austin, plus he seems to have a thing for beating up on the same fighter twice.

Hatton should change his name to Paper Cutter considering he only fights against C level paper chumps.

The rest was ok though

I fixed your list for you at the top.
I don't see how anyone can have B-Hop on the p4p list I don't care what he did to Tarver.
JMM & R.Marquez have been P4P for a couple of weeks now and will stay there if they can keep on wining.

[ono]

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

So why the F*** do you have jermain 'bad F****** intentions' taylor at number 10?

He beat hopkins the second time, after a very very competitive first fight that I thought Hopkins edged out.. Then fought to a draw in a very close fight against WRight. Again, I thought he lost by a round or so.. But the fact is, that at the time those were the number 1 and 2 p4p fighters in the world, almost undeniably, and he still hasn't lost. Hell why do you think after fighting #1 and 2, I only have him at number 10? Im not saying he's looked great. But he took the 3 hardest possible fights in a row and did fairly well for himself in each. Sure if Hatton had beaten Tszyu yesterday Id proably have him in the middle of the list, but the fact is it wasn't, and since then he has not only fought mediocre opposition, but looked average doing it. I think he is already on the slide, to be honest.

He looked terrible and i think anyone has a case for him even losing all 3. Hell i'm not saying hatton should be in the top ten because i honestly don't think he should be, but if he is there i don't understand how you can drop out when you have won 3 world titles in a row with 1 being at a higher weight and 2 being away from home.

Styles make fights so to not have somebody on the list simply because they didn't look brillaint is a bit silly IMO. Style wise Hatton's last 3 fights have been a total nightmare. One clown and 2 southpaws. But he found a way to win and that IMO is more important than looking good and losing, which seems to fit the criteria for making your p4p list....ala Bernard Hopkins.

[p4pking]

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

So why the F*** do you have jermain 'bad F****** intentions' taylor at number 10?

He beat hopkins the second time, after a very very competitive first fight that I thought Hopkins edged out.. Then fought to a draw in a very close fight against WRight. Again, I thought he lost by a round or so.. But the fact is, that at the time those were the number 1 and 2 p4p fighters in the world, almost undeniably, and he still hasn't lost. Hell why do you think after fighting #1 and 2, I only have him at number 10? Im not saying he's looked great. But he took the 3 hardest possible fights in a row and did fairly well for himself in each. Sure if Hatton had beaten Tszyu yesterday Id proably have him in the middle of the list, but the fact is it wasn't, and since then he has not only fought mediocre opposition, but looked average doing it. I think he is already on the slide, to be honest.

He looked terrible and i think anyone has a case for him even losing all 3. Hell i'm not saying hatton should be in the top ten because i honestly don't think he should be, but if he is there i don't understand how you can drop out when you have won 3 world titles in a row with 1 being at a higher weight and 2 being away from home.

Styles make fights so to not have somebody on the list simply because they didn't look brillaint is a bit silly IMO. Style wise Hatton's last 3 fights have been a total nightmare. One clown and 2 southpaws. But he found a way to win and that IMO is more important than looking good and losing, which seems to fit the criteria for making your p4p list....ala Bernard Hopkins.

3 world titles in a row.. It's a moot point. Maussa and Urango were 2 of those world titles. They are both garbage and 2 of the weakest trinket holders you could dream of. collazo was the only real opponent he's faced since Tszyu, and I think he lost, and looked bad doing so. Hey, Hopkins was the no.1 p4p fighter before he "lost" to Taylor in the first fight. He still deserved to be in the rankings afterwards. I had no problem with him dropping off the top 10 after losing the rematch by a hair. I figured he'd retire anyways. But he didn't, moved up TWO weight divisions, and dominated the linear champion and no.8 p4p fighter according to the ring mag. If Hatton's last 3 fights were against the p4p equivalent of Jermain Taylor, I think he'd have lost them all. I just don't feel he is among the 10 best fighters in the world.

[ono]

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

So why the F*** do you have jermain 'bad F****** intentions' taylor at number 10?

He beat hopkins the second time, after a very very competitive first fight that I thought Hopkins edged out.. Then fought to a draw in a very close fight against WRight. Again, I thought he lost by a round or so.. But the fact is, that at the time those were the number 1 and 2 p4p fighters in the world, almost undeniably, and he still hasn't lost. Hell why do you think after fighting #1 and 2, I only have him at number 10? Im not saying he's looked great. But he took the 3 hardest possible fights in a row and did fairly well for himself in each. Sure if Hatton had beaten Tszyu yesterday Id proably have him in the middle of the list, but the fact is it wasn't, and since then he has not only fought mediocre opposition, but looked average doing it. I think he is already on the slide, to be honest.

He looked terrible and i think anyone has a case for him even losing all 3. Hell i'm not saying hatton should be in the top ten because i honestly don't think he should be, but if he is there i don't understand how you can drop out when you have won 3 world titles in a row with 1 being at a higher weight and 2 being away from home.

Styles make fights so to not have somebody on the list simply because they didn't look brillaint is a bit silly IMO. Style wise Hatton's last 3 fights have been a total nightmare. One clown and 2 southpaws. But he found a way to win and that IMO is more important than looking good and losing, which seems to fit the criteria for making your p4p list....ala Bernard Hopkins.

3 world titles in a row.. It's a moot point. Maussa and Urango were 2 of those world titles. They are both garbage and 2 of the weakest trinket holders you could dream of. collazo was the only real opponent he's faced since Tszyu, and I think he lost, and looked bad doing so. Hey, Hopkins was the no.1 p4p fighter before he "lost" to Taylor in the first fight. He still deserved to be in the rankings afterwards. I had no problem with him dropping off the top 10 after losing the rematch by a hair. I figured he'd retire anyways. But he didn't, moved up TWO weight divisions, and dominated the linear champion and no.8 p4p fighter according to the ring mag. If Hatton's last 3 fights were against the p4p equivalent of Jermain Taylor, I think he'd have lost them all. I just don't feel he is among the 10 best fighters in the world.

me neither but to have both taylor and hopkins in there is silly. You have to decide which most important.....looking good or winning. Fact is hopkins has lost 2 of his last 3...to taylor, so there for should he not be below Taylor?

Does a win over Tarver really push Hopkins back above Taylor?

If Clinton Woods beats Tarver will that see him gatecrash the p4p rankings??