Joe Calzaghe

[boozeboxer]

Are there people on here that actually think prime for prime Calzaghe would walk through James Toney?? The James Toney that is one of the most naturally gifted fighters EVER? A guy who ducks know one compared to Joe Calzaghe who fights NO ONE? I really like Calzaghe, I do. But to compare him to James Toney, when viewed in context of the actual achievements is quite funny.
If you think he is fighting Manfredo because he wants to appeal to the American crowd I think that is silly attempt. First of all, no one has heard of (OR WILL HEAR OF) Calzaghe except for hard core fight fans, the same people that KNOW he should be fighting Kessler or someone else legitimate. NO one but fight fans know who Manfredo Jr. is either!

[Gandalf]

Are there people on here that actually think prime for prime Calzaghe would walk through James Toney?? The James Toney that is one of the most naturally gifted fighters EVER? A guy who ducks know one compared to Joe Calzaghe who fights NO ONE? I really like Calzaghe, I do. But to compare him to James Toney, when viewed in context of the actual achievements is quite funny.
If you think he is fighting Manfredo because he wants to appeal to the American crowd I think that is silly attempt. First of all, no one has heard of (OR WILL HEAR OF) Calzaghe except for hard core fight fans, the same people that KNOW he should be fighting Kessler or someone else legitimate. NO one but fight fans know who Manfredo Jr. is either!

Toney and Calzaghe are my favourite fighters, and when it comes down to raw skills and CONDITIONING its a pick 'em...

Admittedly this is just my opinion!

[Preme]

Are there people on here that actually think prime for prime Calzaghe would walk through James Toney?? The James Toney that is one of the most naturally gifted fighters EVER? A guy who ducks know one compared to Joe Calzaghe who fights NO ONE? I really like Calzaghe, I do. But to compare him to James Toney, when viewed in context of the actual achievements is quite funny.
If you think he is fighting Manfredo because he wants to appeal to the American crowd I think that is silly attempt. First of all, no one has heard of (OR WILL HEAR OF) Calzaghe except for hard core fight fans, the same people that KNOW he should be fighting Kessler or someone else legitimate. NO one but fight fans know who Manfredo Jr. is either!

Toney is an american, 'coz of that never had trouble finding big fights - look how long it takes most brits to get a shot at a title or a good american fighter... Jeff lacy became the IBF SMW champion after just 17 pro fights and 1 NC! it has always been easier for an american to get big fights compared to brits...

Toney may have been in the ring with a lot of big names, but he has a few losses to not so great fighters, some close calls as well

[boozeboxer]

Hell you can't even name truly great fighters Calzaghe has been in with to lose to?!?! See it isn't even a debate. Toney has been in with many good to excellent fighters and although he has some losses, he has more than proven himself.

[Tysonbruno]

Calzaghe would'nt beat Toney no way Calzaghes just good not great toney was great as ive said before 1 good fight in fourty odd fights does'nt make him great he needs to forget Lacy and keep fighting good names stop robbing the fans

[ICB]

Hell you can't even name truly great fighters Calzaghe has been in with to lose to?!?! See it isn't even a debate. Toney has been in with many good to excellent fighters and although he has some losses, he has more than proven himself.

thats true but thats got nothing to do really with calzaghe vs toney its nothing to do with who has fought better opp ect thats what alot of people do with match ups they say this guy beat better opponents ect nothing to do with it mate charles williams give toney all he can handle at supermiddleweight why not calzaghe ??

[Gandalf]

Hell you can't even name truly great fighters Calzaghe has been in with to lose to?!?! See it isn't even a debate. Toney has been in with many good to excellent fighters and although he has some losses, he has more than proven himself.

thats true but thats got nothing to do really with calzaghe vs toney its nothing to do with who has fought better opp ect thats what alot of people do with match ups they say this guy beat better opponents nothing to do with it mate charles williams give toney all he can handle at supermiddleweight why not calzaghe ??

Exactly

Who is to really know what either could bring to the table?
Its a pick 'em...goes either way...

Anyone can say Toney beat so and so...but who knows how so and so would match up against any other fighter. It all becomes conjecture...

[ICB]

Hell you can't even name truly great fighters Calzaghe has been in with to lose to?!?! See it isn't even a debate. Toney has been in with many good to excellent fighters and although he has some losses, he has more than proven himself.

thats true but thats got nothing to do really with calzaghe vs toney its nothing to do with who has fought better opp ect thats what alot of people do with match ups they say this guy beat better opponents nothing to do with it mate charles williams give toney all he can handle at supermiddleweight why not calzaghe ??

Exactly

Who is to really know what either could bring to the table?
Its a pick 'em...goes either way...

Anyone can say Toney beat so and so...but who knows how so and so would match up against any other fighter. It all becomes conjecture...

[boozeboxer]

Because I know what Toney can do with top notch opposition and Calzaghe better be able to do the same with top not opposition (which is unproven, except for once (maybe)). So with that in mind, of course I would lean towards Toney.
YOu can't tell me that fighting all these no-name fighters doesn't take credit away from a boxer. A truly great champion that wanted to fight the best/could have or would have by now. That is not debateable. He is in love with fighting at home against poor opponents. Which is fine and I respect that. But when you compare prime fighters against each other, I would take it into consideration. It is silly to even compare prime vs. prime fighters against each other without taking into consideration the opponents opposition in the past. If you didn't do that what do you want to base your judgement on? Sparring? Workouts? Interviews??

[Main Partner]

Calzaghe is a brilliant fighter with an amazing record as both amateur and pro. Just ask Chris Byrd and Marquez (in the amateurs)

Toney is very very overrated. Every single time one says something about Toney they also have to say 1000s of ifs. If only Toney hits harder, if he was in shape, if he was younger, if he was not fat......if he was not this and that then he might be someone.....You could say so about almost any boxer.

Remember it was the guy who wanted to clean out the hw division within 18 months. What a jerk - he only cleaned out himself.

[ICB]

Because I know what Toney can do with top notch opposition and Calzaghe better be able to do the same with top not opposition (which is unproven, except for once (maybe)). So with that in mind, of course I would lean towards Toney.
YOu can't tell me that fighting all these no-name fighters doesn't take credit away from a boxer. A truly great champion that wanted to fight the best/could have or would have by now. That is not debateable. He is in love with fighting at home against poor opponents. Which is fine and I respect that. But when you compare prime fighters against each other, I would take it into consideration. It is silly to even compare prime vs. prime fighters against each other without taking into consideration the opponents opposition in the past. If you didn't do that what do you want to base your judgement on? Sparring? Workouts? Interviews??

i base it on styles

[boozeboxer]

What ifs?!?! What ifs?!?! How about this what if! What if Calzaghe fought real opposition!

[Tysonbruno]

What ifs?!?! What ifs?!?! How about this what if! What if Calzaghe fought real opposition!

CC too true

[boozeboxer]

I already cc'd you TysonBruno. back at you in 24.

[shza]

The man who turned up and beat the then RED HOT Jeff Lacy is overated without taking without taking anything in return is overated ?

Aye ?

Anyone who knows Joe knows he has bollocks bigger than Wales he'd walk to New York ( no swim ) to fight any of the so called top contenders

Joe has had injuries but i know he ooozes confidence and self belief like no fighter out there !

Comparing him to James Toney the laziest waste of talent of the last 15
years .

You are having a laugh

I am sorry are you Joe Calzaghe? Or Frank Warren??.....

At superMiddleweight James Toney would have gave Calzaghe a beatdown that would have given him a permenant studder....Don't confuse thise heavyweight version of James Toney to that of the Super middleweight version....Two comletely different fighters...

Only Roy Jones was able to beat that version.....

And if you even attempt to put Joe Calzaghe anywhere near the super middleweight version of Roy Jones I suggest you enter a 28 day program to sober up

A patronising post, backed up by very little. I politely disagree with the main bulk of this posting.

he never does back his posts up, prolly coz he can't.

Just seemed like a case of "here is my opinion go and deal with it, oh, and I will patronise you while im at it". An opinion is far from a fact and for an opinion to come anywhere close to fact needs to be supported with some good arguments. All utterly lacking here. Hate to be rude, Daxx...I usually like your posts, but this one sent me a little cold.

Sure, but I don't think the absurd post to which he was responding (beating the "red hot" Jeff Lacy is sufficient to make someone an all-time great; JC is leagues above the SMW Toney; Toney (a HOF shoe-in) is "the laziest waste of talent in 15 years") merited anything more. *That* is the post you should be taking issue with.