the worst five champions do you agree with this ??

[frozensolid_702]

evander holyfield should be on that list, as well.


he wasnt that good eventhough he was taking steroids

Well that's a rediculous statement.

But in all seriousness, we have 3 champs right now that probably couldn't beat most of those guys.

i bet youd change your stance if it were mayweather being investigated for steroids

[Brockton Bomber]

i bet youd change your stance if it were mayweather being investigated for steroids
[/quote]

Actually, I wouldn't change my stance. It really wouldn't surprise if he was on roids for a portion of his career. But that doesn't take away from his non-roided accomplishments, and a lot of people have Evander on thier top 20 ATG lists. To say he's one of the worst champs ever is rediculous.

Besides, everyone knows Evander took those steroids so he would do well on "Dancing with the stars". lol

[ono]

Along with the best fighters to hold the heavyweight championship I decided to do a page listing the five worst or luckiest fighters who managed to win the heavyweight crown, this page is not made to discredit any of the fighters listed it is purely my own personal view that the fighters listed probably over achieved by winning the heavyweight championship.

1 - Greg Page - Greg page was not really a poor fighter so much as a waste of talent. Born in the same hometown as Muhammad Ali, Louisville, Kentucky, Page was at one time seen by many as a succesor to Ali, Page was a smart boxer with good movement and fast hands and won his first nineteen fights with sixteen stoppages before losing a ten round decision to future champion Trevor Berbick, Page rebounded by winning a further four fights before challenging Tim Witherspoon for the vacant WBC crown which he lost on points. This defeat seemed to send Page's career into a nosedive and he lost seven of his next fifteen fights, with losses to Gerrie Coetzee, Buster Douglas, an old comebacking Joe Bugner, rookie David Bey and worst of all a limited journeyman Mark Wills who twice knocked out Page. During his career Page was very often grossly out of shape and poorly motivated. Page did keep on fighting until 2001 but never got anywhere near a title fight and never won any more big fights, unfortunatley Page became no more than a big name journeyman or stepping stone for up and coming fighters and in his final fight sadly he was sadly injured against limited journeyman Dale Crowe, unfortunatley Page was typical of many of the heavyweights who passed the crown around in the 1980's, unmotivated, overweight and a huge under achiever and most of all a huge waste of talent. Click Here For Complete Record.

Greg Page In Fighting Pose.

2 - Marvin Hart - Marvin Hart won the vacant heavyweight title in 1905 against Jack Root, stopping root in 12 rounds. His success was short lived however and just seven months later he was dethroned by Tommy Burns on a 20 round decision. Hart was never able to regain the form that won him the championship and had only a further eleven fights over the next four years five wins, three knockout defeats a draw and two no contests, the three Ko defeats were all to average rookie fighters. Hart wasn't really a bad fighter but was purely an average fighter who was in the right place at the right time when he won the title. Click Here For Complete Record.

3 - Gerrie Coetzee - Gerrie Coetzee was a strong hard punching South African, he won twenty two fights fighting almost exclusively out of South Africa against unknown opponents. In October 1979 he challenged the unbeaten but ordinary "Big" John Tate for the vacant WBA heavyweight crown, Coetzee lost a dull 15 round decision to Tate but just Two fights later was again contesting the WBA crown against Mike Weaver. Weaver had Ko'd Tate while behind on points with just fifteen seconds remaining of the fifteenth and final round of their title fight sixth months earlier. Coetzee was this time knocked out in thirteen rounds. A further four wins against ordinary opposition, a points loss to Renaldo Snipes and a draw with Pinklon Thomas followed before Coetzee was rewarded with a third title challenge against Michael Dokes. Dokes was a competent champion but another waste of talent, often out of shape and a fighter with a huge drug problem, Dokes entered the ring against Coetzee in a cocaine haze and was Ko'd in ten rounds, he later commented that he couldn't even remember the fight. Coetzee lost the title in his very first defence getting stopped by Greg Page in eight rounds and the rest of his career consisted of just six fights spanning twelve years with four wins, all against unknown opposition and two defeats, a one round loss to Frank Bruno in London in 1986 and a ten round Ko loss to former middleweight and super middleweight champion Iran Barkley in 1997. Coetzee was basically a hard punching but very limited fighter who got lucky. Click Here For Complete Record.

4 - Leon Spinks - Considering that Leon Spinks was a 1976 Olympic gold medallist and the fact that in just his seventh fight with a 6-0-1 (5ko) record he managed to become the Heavyweight champion of the world by beating "The Greatest" Muhammad Ali, then Leon may seem a strange choice for this list, these facts however don't really tell the full story of Leon's career. After beating Ali in February 1978 on a fifteen round split decision he never managed to defend the title, he was beaten by Ali on a fifteen round unanimous decision in the rematch just seven months later. He then returned to the ring in June 1979 and was knocked out in one round by Gerrie Coetzee, three wins and a draw followed before Leon was stopped in three one sided rounds by Larry Holmes in a title challenge. Following this defeat Leon then moved down to the newly created Cruiserweight division and managed to win seven of eight fights at the new weight (losing only to future three time cruiserweight champ, Carlos De Leon) He then secured a title fight for the WBA crown against Dwight Muhammad Quawi (formerly Dwight Braxton) he was stopped easliy by Quawi in six rounds. Following this his career went downhill rapidly and in his next nine fights his record was a terrible 1 win, 7 losses and a draw, during this time Spinks also had many personal problems with his drugs and alcohol battles, and in 1988 after a one round Ko loss to journeyman Tony Morrison (brother of future contender Tommy Morrison) his licence was suspended for three years. He did comeback beetween 1991 and 1995 having thirteen fights against poor opposition, he won eight and lost five but never came anywhere near being a contender again. Leon basically ruined his own career with his personal problems and bad living and could never really live up to the hype after he beat a faded Ali and ended up just another talented fighter who threw it all away. Click Here For Complete Record.

Leon Shortly After The Ali fights On The Cover Of Sports illustrated.

5 - Frank Bruno - Bruno was a product of British newspaper and TV hype. At around 6'3 inches tall and sixteen stone, he was superbly built and had a huge right hand punch, on the downside of this Bruno had very little movement, bad stamina and a suspect chin. Despite all this Bruno won his first twenty one fights, all by knockout, although he did have one scare along the way when he was almost knocked out at the end of the first round by Floyd "Jumbo" Cummings, he was saved by the bell though and managed to wear down Cummings before stopping him in the seventh, but the warning signs were there. In his twenty second fight he fought James "Bonecrusher" Smith and after winning the first nine rounds he was stopped in the tenth and final round by the big punching American. This was a huge setback but after a further seven wins Bruno was challenging WBA champ Tim Witherspoon for the title at Wembley Stadium, London. Witherspoon was a good fighter but one who had conditioning and weight problems and on arrival in London he looked in poor shape and ill prepared. He was still too good for Bruno and stopped him in eleven rounds, Bruno had again failed to step up to the next level. Four more wins followed over terrible opposition before Bruno was given a shot at Mike Tyson in February 1989, Again Bruno had his moments rocking Tyson in the first round but as usual his stamina and chin let him down and he was stopped in the fifth round. At this stage most fighters would never have got near a title again but when Lennox Lewis became champion Bruno was given another shot at the titles, it was a familiar story, after seven rounds Bruno was winning the fight but as soon as he was hit solidly his chin gave way and Lewis won by stoppage. Again Bruno came back and after three wins Bruno was challenging Oliver McCall who had shocked Lewis in London. This time Bruno managed to build a big lead on the score cards and survived a late rally by a sluggish unmotivated McCall who at the time was struggling with alcohol and drug addictions, Bruno had at last won the title. His success though was short lived and six months later he was destroyed in three rounds by mike Tyson and relieved of his title, this was Bruno's last fight. Bruno was basically an average but determined fighter with limited skills and a big punch, he made his name fighting some of the worst import opponents seen in Britain and always seemed to fall short at world class. He was however loved by the British press and fans and was in the right place at the right time against the troubled Oliver McCall. Click Here For Complete Record.



http://www.iain.hampson.btinternet.co.uk/worst_five.htm

As it states in your post, Bruno didn't seem to have too much trouble building up leads in fights. He just completely collapsed under pressure. He had confidence issues i think. But he wasn't one of the 5 worst. His ability must have been pretty good to be able to outbox world champions.

[The Promoter]

Looking at linear champs I'd have to say(worst on top):

Leon Spinks
Buster Douglas
Michael Moorer
Hasim Rahman
Shannon Briggs

in that order...

[spanky-banky]

cc good list but i disagree with bruno,he shouldnt be on that list......

....someone said Braddock should be on there but only if were talking lucky champs cause jim braddock was far from pathetic,he was by no means a bum but a very good journey-man with an iron jaw

..... id consider buster douglas to that list and michael spinks was also a very lucky man to win HW title

He was an OK fighter, but he was probably the least talented fighter ever to hold the undisputed crown. Buster Douglas put on one of the best performances ever in a boxing ring when he beat Tyson. Michael Spinks was a great fighter at the lower ranks and he had the skills just not the size or chin to compete at the heavyweights.

yeah buster douglas put on a good performance but one good performance in a career is not enough and he was very lucky that tyson put on the worst performance of his career and spinks was lucky to get the win over holmes i had both fights for holmes

[porkypara]

How about Carloss Mauser.He is shiiiiiiit!

[TheChosenOne]

Along with the best fighters to hold the heavyweight championship I decided to do a page listing the five worst or luckiest fighters who managed to win the heavyweight crown, this page is not made to discredit any of the fighters listed it is purely my own personal view that the fighters listed probably over achieved by winning the heavyweight championship.

1 - Greg Page - Greg page was not really a poor fighter so much as a waste of talent. Born in the same hometown as Muhammad Ali, Louisville, Kentucky, Page was at one time seen by many as a succesor to Ali, Page was a smart boxer with good movement and fast hands and won his first nineteen fights with sixteen stoppages before losing a ten round decision to future champion Trevor Berbick, Page rebounded by winning a further four fights before challenging Tim Witherspoon for the vacant WBC crown which he lost on points. This defeat seemed to send Page's career into a nosedive and he lost seven of his next fifteen fights, with losses to Gerrie Coetzee, Buster Douglas, an old comebacking Joe Bugner, rookie David Bey and worst of all a limited journeyman Mark Wills who twice knocked out Page. During his career Page was very often grossly out of shape and poorly motivated. Page did keep on fighting until 2001 but never got anywhere near a title fight and never won any more big fights, unfortunatley Page became no more than a big name journeyman or stepping stone for up and coming fighters and in his final fight sadly he was sadly injured against limited journeyman Dale Crowe, unfortunatley Page was typical of many of the heavyweights who passed the crown around in the 1980's, unmotivated, overweight and a huge under achiever and most of all a huge waste of talent. Click Here For Complete Record.

Greg Page In Fighting Pose.

2 - Marvin Hart - Marvin Hart won the vacant heavyweight title in 1905 against Jack Root, stopping root in 12 rounds. His success was short lived however and just seven months later he was dethroned by Tommy Burns on a 20 round decision. Hart was never able to regain the form that won him the championship and had only a further eleven fights over the next four years five wins, three knockout defeats a draw and two no contests, the three Ko defeats were all to average rookie fighters. Hart wasn't really a bad fighter but was purely an average fighter who was in the right place at the right time when he won the title. Click Here For Complete Record.

3 - Gerrie Coetzee - Gerrie Coetzee was a strong hard punching South African, he won twenty two fights fighting almost exclusively out of South Africa against unknown opponents. In October 1979 he challenged the unbeaten but ordinary "Big" John Tate for the vacant WBA heavyweight crown, Coetzee lost a dull 15 round decision to Tate but just Two fights later was again contesting the WBA crown against Mike Weaver. Weaver had Ko'd Tate while behind on points with just fifteen seconds remaining of the fifteenth and final round of their title fight sixth months earlier. Coetzee was this time knocked out in thirteen rounds. A further four wins against ordinary opposition, a points loss to Renaldo Snipes and a draw with Pinklon Thomas followed before Coetzee was rewarded with a third title challenge against Michael Dokes. Dokes was a competent champion but another waste of talent, often out of shape and a fighter with a huge drug problem, Dokes entered the ring against Coetzee in a cocaine haze and was Ko'd in ten rounds, he later commented that he couldn't even remember the fight. Coetzee lost the title in his very first defence getting stopped by Greg Page in eight rounds and the rest of his career consisted of just six fights spanning twelve years with four wins, all against unknown opposition and two defeats, a one round loss to Frank Bruno in London in 1986 and a ten round Ko loss to former middleweight and super middleweight champion Iran Barkley in 1997. Coetzee was basically a hard punching but very limited fighter who got lucky. Click Here For Complete Record.

4 - Leon Spinks - Considering that Leon Spinks was a 1976 Olympic gold medallist and the fact that in just his seventh fight with a 6-0-1 (5ko) record he managed to become the Heavyweight champion of the world by beating "The Greatest" Muhammad Ali, then Leon may seem a strange choice for this list, these facts however don't really tell the full story of Leon's career. After beating Ali in February 1978 on a fifteen round split decision he never managed to defend the title, he was beaten by Ali on a fifteen round unanimous decision in the rematch just seven months later. He then returned to the ring in June 1979 and was knocked out in one round by Gerrie Coetzee, three wins and a draw followed before Leon was stopped in three one sided rounds by Larry Holmes in a title challenge. Following this defeat Leon then moved down to the newly created Cruiserweight division and managed to win seven of eight fights at the new weight (losing only to future three time cruiserweight champ, Carlos De Leon) He then secured a title fight for the WBA crown against Dwight Muhammad Quawi (formerly Dwight Braxton) he was stopped easliy by Quawi in six rounds. Following this his career went downhill rapidly and in his next nine fights his record was a terrible 1 win, 7 losses and a draw, during this time Spinks also had many personal problems with his drugs and alcohol battles, and in 1988 after a one round Ko loss to journeyman Tony Morrison (brother of future contender Tommy Morrison) his licence was suspended for three years. He did comeback beetween 1991 and 1995 having thirteen fights against poor opposition, he won eight and lost five but never came anywhere near being a contender again. Leon basically ruined his own career with his personal problems and bad living and could never really live up to the hype after he beat a faded Ali and ended up just another talented fighter who threw it all away. Click Here For Complete Record.

Leon Shortly After The Ali fights On The Cover Of Sports illustrated.

5 - Frank Bruno - Bruno was a product of British newspaper and TV hype. At around 6'3 inches tall and sixteen stone, he was superbly built and had a huge right hand punch, on the downside of this Bruno had very little movement, bad stamina and a suspect chin. Despite all this Bruno won his first twenty one fights, all by knockout, although he did have one scare along the way when he was almost knocked out at the end of the first round by Floyd "Jumbo" Cummings, he was saved by the bell though and managed to wear down Cummings before stopping him in the seventh, but the warning signs were there. In his twenty second fight he fought James "Bonecrusher" Smith and after winning the first nine rounds he was stopped in the tenth and final round by the big punching American. This was a huge setback but after a further seven wins Bruno was challenging WBA champ Tim Witherspoon for the title at Wembley Stadium, London. Witherspoon was a good fighter but one who had conditioning and weight problems and on arrival in London he looked in poor shape and ill prepared. He was still too good for Bruno and stopped him in eleven rounds, Bruno had again failed to step up to the next level. Four more wins followed over terrible opposition before Bruno was given a shot at Mike Tyson in February 1989, Again Bruno had his moments rocking Tyson in the first round but as usual his stamina and chin let him down and he was stopped in the fifth round. At this stage most fighters would never have got near a title again but when Lennox Lewis became champion Bruno was given another shot at the titles, it was a familiar story, after seven rounds Bruno was winning the fight but as soon as he was hit solidly his chin gave way and Lewis won by stoppage. Again Bruno came back and after three wins Bruno was challenging Oliver McCall who had shocked Lewis in London. This time Bruno managed to build a big lead on the score cards and survived a late rally by a sluggish unmotivated McCall who at the time was struggling with alcohol and drug addictions, Bruno had at last won the title. His success though was short lived and six months later he was destroyed in three rounds by mike Tyson and relieved of his title, this was Bruno's last fight. Bruno was basically an average but determined fighter with limited skills and a big punch, he made his name fighting some of the worst import opponents seen in Britain and always seemed to fall short at world class. He was however loved by the British press and fans and was in the right place at the right time against the troubled Oliver McCall. Click Here For Complete Record.


http://www.iain.hampson.btinternet.co.uk/worst_five.htm

are we forgetting the worst of them all :


John "hug me, kiss me, make love to me" Ruiz

[Tysonbruno]

What about Ricky Hatton win a title vacate it kid. Not a bad fighter but a crap champion

[X]

What about Ricky Hatton win a title vacate it kid. Not a bad fighter but a crap champion

An excellent point ................ I hadn't thought of it like that !

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

What about Ricky Hatton win a title vacate it kid. Not a bad fighter but a crap champion

An excellent point ................ I hadn't thought of it like that !

thats just seven shades of wrong man!

And Hey! Hello? John Tate anyone

[Tysonbruno]

What about Ricky Hatton win a title vacate it kid. Not a bad fighter but a crap champion

An excellent point ................ I hadn't thought of it like that !

thats just seven shades of wrong man

Hows it wrong does he not win them then vacate them then as i say he is'nt a bad fighter but he's a crap champion no title no champion so if he does,nt defend them he has to be one of the worst champions

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Okay first off, after beating Kostya Tszyu, the first thing Ricky did was go right after another champion, the best fight open to him, and beat the shit out of him.

How many of the guys listed here did that, if any

Secondly, he had no option but to give up his belts the 1st time round due to HBO getting on his case.
Anyway, so he moved up, won but lost out big time and ran back down to 140. And won his old strap back in his 1st fight.


Which brings right up to... Thirdly, how are you supposed to defend your belt with an ounce of credibility when the mandatory your given are not upto standard.

My personal opinion, to get to the point, is Ricky has mad the right decision in giving up his IBF strap.

You dont need the "IBF" to be regarded a champion, not in my book, not these days anyway

[Tysonbruno]

Okay first off, after beating Kostya Tszyu, the first thing Ricky did was go right after another champion, the best fight open to him, and beat the S*** out of him.

How many of the guys listed here did that, if any

Secondly, he had no option but to give up his belts the 1st time round due to HBO getting on his case.
Anyway, so he moved up, won but lost out big time and ran back down to 140. And won his old strap back in his 1st fight.


Which brings right up to... Thirdly, how are you supposed to defend your belt with an ounce of credibility when the mandatory your given are not upto standard.

My personal opinion, to get to the point, is Ricky has mad the right decision in giving up his IBF strap.

You dont need the "IBF" to be regarded a champion, not in my book, not these days anyway

But my point is he does'nt defend he is'nt a champ he could have fought M'baye he is'nt bad

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Hey im not blasting you, i was just pissed that X actually thought that was a good post.

I would like X to explain himself.

Nothing to do with you, just X.

This was a rant at X.

X, where are you hiding X?

[X]

Hey im not blasting you, i was just pissed that X actually thought that was a good post.

I would like X to explain himself.

Nothing to do with you, just X.

This was a rant at X.

X, where are you hiding X?

here I am Jim ......... Sorry I was away, I was surfing hard-core dwarf tossing.

I thought it was a good post because I hadn't thought of that, and logically I would have to agree.