Margarito/Williams II

[Gandalf]

It was a cracking fight but Williams won convincingly. There is no need to even consider a rematch. Maybe at some later juncture if Margarito can get back in the picture, but otherwise there is no reason.

It really wasnt Hopkins: Taylor 1. Not at all.

[shza]

It was a cracking fight but Williams won convincingly. There is no need to even consider a rematch. Maybe at some later juncture if Margarito can get back in the picture, but otherwise there is no reason.

It really wasnt Hopkins: Taylor 1. Not at all.

Agreed. The Margarito rematches that should happen now are Clottey and Cintron, not Williams. Williams really ought to take Margarito's place in the Cotto fight. Who else is Cotto going to fight next? Mosley?

[El Gamo]

It was a cracking fight but Williams won convincingly. There is no need to even consider a rematch. Maybe at some later juncture if Margarito can get back in the picture, but otherwise there is no reason.

It really wasnt Hopkins: Taylor 1. Not at all.

I respect you as a poster but that is a ridiculous statement. MAB got KTFO and lost nearly every round with Manny yet he gets a rematch. I can go through lots of fights where there was no need for a rematch and this one was much closer. And it was similar to Hopkins Taylor. JT won the earlier rounds,B Hop started too late. Same here.

It was a cracking fight but Williams won convincingly. There is no need to even consider a rematch. Maybe at some later juncture if Margarito can get back in the picture, but otherwise there is no reason.

It really wasnt Hopkins: Taylor 1. Not at all.

Agreed. The Margarito rematches that should happen now are Clottey and Cintron, not Williams. Williams really ought to take Margarito's place in the Cotto fight. Who else is Cotto going to fight next? Mosley?

After every round the analysis would be PW throws over 100 punches yet if you look at punch stats,they land near enough simlar % with Margarito certainly landing the harder shots. The scoring for this fight reminds me of Ponce V Penelosa. Ponce threw hundreds of punches every round but never once hurt Gerry. Gerry landed and threw less but made much more of an impact.

I've altered my opinion having seen the fight numerous times,I want to see a rematch. If Margarito can go to court against his own promotional company to get the fight with PW,I'm sure PW can return the favour.

And lots of ringside obersvers had the fight even or Tony winning. I'd like to see a rematch.

[shza]

I've yet to read of anyone other than Margarito (and now Gamo, I guess) actually claiming that Margarito won. The fight was close (sort of; I had it 116-112, which seems to be the most common score out there among boxing journalists), but the result was not controversial. This was not like Hatton-Collazo where there was actually a dispute as to the result and it seemed as if the challenger perhaps should not have become the champ.

I said before this fight that Margarito ought to give Clottey a rematch. I think that fight is far more ripe and deserving of a rematch than this one. Many people, me included, think Clottey would have won if he hadn't injured his hands.

And Gamo, come on--the MAB/Pac comparison is inapt. MAB/Pac I was years ago, and MAB beat Morales and Juarez in between. If Margarito goes and beats Cintron or Cotto and a couple years down the road comes looking for a rematch with Williams, then by all means he should get it. But not now--in a division with this much talent I have no interest in seeing an immediate rematch. Immediate rematches are only worthwhile where (a) the first fight was very good (i.e., worth watching again), AND (b) one of the following: (i) there are no other good fights to be made at the weight class (see, e.g., R. Marquez v. I. Vasquez II), (ii) the result was controversial (see, e.g., Mayweather v. Castillo II or Taylor v. Hopkins II; this also should have happened for Hatton/Collazo), or (iii) the fight could have gone the other way but was changed due to some freak headbutt or injury, etc. (arguably R. Marquez v. I. Vasquez, Pac v. EM II, Clottey v. Margarito).

[El Gamo]

You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?

Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: Margarito, 116-112

Tim Smith, New York Daily News: Draw, 114-114

Steve Springer, Los Angeles Times: Draw, 114-114

Bill Dwyre, Los Angeles Times: Margarito, 115-113

Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: Margarito, 115-113

Doug Fischer, MaxBoxing.com: Margarito, 115-113

Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: Williams,
116-112

Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: Williams,
115-113

Carlos Arias, Orange County Register: Williams,
115-113

David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: Draw, 114-114

Francisco Salazar, Fightnews.com: Draw, 114-114

Which majority of journalists did you hear? These were the ringside journalists. And where did I say Margarito WON? I had it 115-113 PW,but I used the Ponce De Leon Penelosa example to show how fights can be scored differently ergo the above scores.

And those are your reasons for rematches. Floyd wants an Oscar rematch,regardless of the SD,that fight was not close. Like I said in another thread,SSM won't fight PW,Cintron would have nightmares with PW and Arum has already said Coto won't fight PW. And how can it be an inept example,he got KTFO. Doesn't matter who he beat in between,he also lost his last fight??

[JT Rock]

And lots of ringside obersvers had the fight even or Tony winning.

Yea right!!!! C'mon man you got to let it go, he let the 1st 6 rounds slip away, and even if he won the next 5 he clearly lost the 12th....

And were is my sig bro? you squelching on me

[El Gamo]

And lots of ringside obersvers had the fight even or Tony winning.

Yea right!!!! C'mon man you got to let it go, he let the 1st 6 rounds slip away, and even if he won the next 5 he clearly lost the 12th....

I don't understand why you 2 are so confused about this: I have shown proof that alot of guys had it a draw or Margo winning. I had 115-113 PW.


And if I have not made my points well enough already,Margarito went to court against his own promotional company for the fight,PW can easily give Tony a rematch provided he wants one of course. I have no idea what Margarito wants to do.

[shza]

You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?

Fine. I didn't do an internet survey like you did. I'm frankly shocked that any journalist could score the fight for Margarito. 4 is the only round in the first 6 I could conceivably see being scored for Margarito. And Williams clearly won the 12th. So even if Margarito won rounds 7-11 (which he didn't), the best I could see him doing was a draw.

And those are your reasons for rematches. Floyd wants an Oscar rematch,regardless of the SD,that fight was not close.

Hey, I agree with you there. I don't want a Floyd-Oscar rematch. You can see why Floyd wants it though (a reason that clearly doesn't apply to Margarito-Williams or really anything not involving Oscar).

Like I said in another thread,SSM won't fight PW,Cintron would have nightmares with PW and Arum has already said Coto won't fight PW.

Arum is a bitch. Cotto-Williams is definitely the fight that should be happening now. I agree that anyone would have trouble with Williams, but I think Williams-Cintron would be a good fight and I wouldn't be surprised if it got made.

And how can it be an inept example,he got KTFO. Doesn't matter who he beat in between,he also lost his last fight??

Inapt, not inept. But I don't think the KO matters that much--you were one of the people most looking forward to Pac-EM III, right? (a fight which I consistently said should not have ever happened). Wlad got KO'd by Brewster. Should he not have rematched him? I think Margarito-Cintron II should happen again too--sooner than Margarito-Williams, despite the fact that Cintron got owned. He picked himself back up and improved, and plenty of time has passed. Immediate rematches are almost always a bad idea.




[/quote]

[JT Rock]

And lots of ringside obersvers had the fight even or Tony winning.

Yea right!!!! C'mon man you got to let it go, he let the 1st 6 rounds slip away, and even if he won the next 5 he clearly lost the 12th....

I don't understand why you 2 are so confused about this: I have shown proof that alot of guys had it a draw or Margo winning. I had 115-113 PW.


And if I have not made my points well enough already,Margarito went to court against his own promotional company for the fight,PW can easily give Tony a rematch provided he wants one of course. I have no idea what Margarito wants to do.

Why would he want one.... Tony has 0 maketabilty and had none before he lost Saturday nite now he has veven less... Tony has 2 types of audiences

1)People who think he is the end all be all boogey man and ducke fighter etc...

2) people who didnt buy into the hype PERIOD!!!

All we heard is, When Tony gets his big break and hits the main stage he is gonna prove he is deserving of all the hype and will shine bright

Well he was on the biggest stage and he lost.... His arrogance and all that smiling during the fight paid off   most were skeptical of him when he was a champ now the skeptism is at an all time high... Like I said 0 maketibility, not likeable and cant even connect with the guy... the last images of him were Bitchin and moaning and being a sore loser on national TV and headlineing a boxing card, instead of being gracious to his opponent      

[CutMeMick]

You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?

Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: Margarito, 116-112

Tim Smith, New York Daily News: Draw, 114-114

Steve Springer, Los Angeles Times: Draw, 114-114

Bill Dwyre, Los Angeles Times: Margarito, 115-113

Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: Margarito, 115-113

Doug Fischer, MaxBoxing.com: Margarito, 115-113

Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: Williams,
116-112

Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: Williams,
115-113

Carlos Arias, Orange County Register: Williams,
115-113

David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: Draw, 114-114

Francisco Salazar, Fightnews.com: Draw, 114-114

Oh! Shit!
Whoa!! I a bit surprised at Doug socring it for Margarito.
LMAO! at Iole 116-112 for Margarito

[Eli_jr24]

Margarito let the fight out of his hands early. The fight got exciting after rnd 7 but it was too late for Margarito. Williams out hustled him at many times and he showed me he has some heart.
Now, If Cintron fights Williams, this is one of those fight that I say favor the style. Cintron would knock this guy out. Margarito hit Williams with a lot of Right crosses. Cintron is accurate and that is his siganture punch. If Williams can survive 12 rounds and be as active as always, he'll pull it off. But if he leaves his guard open for those right hands, The welterweight division will then be very interesting.

[LeftHookToTheBody]

You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?

Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: Margarito, 116-112

Tim Smith, New York Daily News: Draw, 114-114

Steve Springer, Los Angeles Times: Draw, 114-114

Bill Dwyre, Los Angeles Times: Margarito, 115-113

Steve Kim, AUTO MESSAGE: The webmaster of this site has requested that we do not use any content from it.... please delete this post.com: Margarito, 115-113

Doug Fischer, AUTO MESSAGE: The webmaster of this site has requested that we do not use any content from it.... please delete this post.com: Margarito, 115-113

Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: Williams,
116-112

Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: Williams,
115-113

Carlos Arias, Orange County Register: Williams,
115-113

David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: Draw, 114-114

Francisco Salazar, Fightnews.com: Draw, 114-114

Which majority of journalists did you hear? These were the ringside journalists. And where did I say Margarito WON? I had it 115-113 PW,but I used the Ponce De Leon Penelosa example to show how fights can be scored differently ergo the above scores.

And those are your reasons for rematches. Floyd wants an Oscar rematch,regardless of the SD,that fight was not close. Like I said in another thread,SSM won't fight PW,Cintron would have nightmares with PW and Arum has already said Coto won't fight PW. And how can it be an inept example,he got KTFO. Doesn't matter who he beat in between,he also lost his last fight??

Some of those scores are absolutely absurd. 116-112 for Margarito, are you kidding me? Even if you were extra kind and gave him the benefit of the doubt in rounds you thought he might have lost close because he's the champ, there is simply no way anybody who saw that fight could give him more than 5 rounds. And that is stretching it. Anyone giving Margarito the fight loses credibility in my mind. 116-112 Margarito, good lord

[ElTerribleMorales]

it was far from being a classic but it wasn't one of these fights that are made to be the fight of the century and completely didn't live up to the expectations (DLH/Mayweather although it's Mayweather's fault lol, Corrales/Casamayor III, Barrera/Juarez II), they were all ok fights, but they didn't live up to the hype at all, and well there was good action in the later rounds when Tony finally let his hands go fluently, and i think there are good enough grounds for there to be a rematch, and also from what i've see, it was a better fight than Jones Jr. Vs. Henshaw, and it was a million times better than the borefest that was Simms/Alcine last week

I think some people just have unreasonable expectations, I thought it was a cracking fight. I also thoroughly enhoyed Mayweather vs De La Hoya and thought the Jones Jr Hanshaw fight was great to watch as well.

Maybe I'm easier to please than most but all three of those fights I would happily sit through again.



The Simms fight was crap though :P

oh i'm not saying i didn't enjoy the fights that i listed (haven't seen the whole Jones fight and i'm not saying i didn't like what i saw, it just wasn't as good as Margarito/Williams), i've seen all the fights that i mentioned above more than once, well besides Corrales/Casamayor III

[bond007]

I got frustrated at all the times that the ref warned Williams about the holding. every time he would say this is the last time but never took points away.

[ElTerribleMorales]

You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?

Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: Margarito, 116-112

Tim Smith, New York Daily News: Draw, 114-114

Steve Springer, Los Angeles Times: Draw, 114-114

Bill Dwyre, Los Angeles Times: Margarito, 115-113

Steve Kim, AUTO MESSAGE: The webmaster of this site has requested that we do not use any content from it.... please delete this post.com: Margarito, 115-113

Doug Fischer, AUTO MESSAGE: The webmaster of this site has requested that we do not use any content from it.... please delete this post.com: Margarito, 115-113

Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: Williams,
116-112

Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: Williams,
115-113

Carlos Arias, Orange County Register: Williams,
115-113

David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: Draw, 114-114

Francisco Salazar, Fightnews.com: Draw, 114-114

Which majority of journalists did you hear? These were the ringside journalists. And where did I say Margarito WON? I had it 115-113 PW,but I used the Ponce De Leon Penelosa example to show how fights can be scored differently ergo the above scores.

And those are your reasons for rematches. Floyd wants an Oscar rematch,regardless of the SD,that fight was not close. Like I said in another thread,SSM won't fight PW,Cintron would have nightmares with PW and Arum has already said Coto won't fight PW. And how can it be an inept example,he got KTFO. Doesn't matter who he beat in between,he also lost his last fight??

Some of those scores are absolutely absurd. 116-112 for Margarito, are you kidding me? Even if you were extra kind and gave him the benefit of the doubt in rounds you thought he might have lost close because he's the champ, there is simply no way anybody who saw that fight could give him more than 5 rounds. And that is stretching it. Anyone giving Margarito the fight loses credibility in my mind. 116-112 Margarito, good lord

i had it 115-113 for Williams, best i saw Margarito getting was a draw, but there should be a rematch, as for people saying the whole Clottey rematch (not saying he doesn't deserve one) but don't use the hand as an excuse, cause remember that Margarito hurt his hand in that fight as well