If Freddie Roach about to fall out of favour?

[Kev]

There is ONLY but 1 person responsible for what happened with Toney, and that's Toney himself.

When you get/have seasoned fighters like him you can talk and encourage all you wan't but they're gonna do what they're gonna do.

I think Roach's is one of the best and for NO reason do the best fighters in the world come to Wild Card Gym to train with him....

B-Hop was the last win he had

Yeah I mentioned him but said it didn't really count.

You really need to start reading threads in their entirety Mick, maybe take your shades off when you're logging on

Thaose are shades?!?!?!

I thought he just had really big eyes... Those come off?

ha lmao cc

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

There is ONLY but 1 person responsible for what happened with Toney, and that's Toney himself.

When you get/have seasoned fighters like him you can talk and encourage all you wan't but they're gonna do what they're gonna do.

I think Roach's is one of the best and for NO reason do the best fighters in the world come to Wild Card Gym to train with him....

B-Hop was the last win he had

Mick, I hear you but a trainer and a student absolutly work better when they know each other... They know what the other is thinking and know how to pump them up or settle them down. I think Roach is doing himself a disservice by training as a Mercenary(obviously not money wise)

I also noticed in a recent interview on boxingtalk Roach was asked how James was following his ban and he said he hadn't heard from him since the Batchelder fight. They then asked him if the two of the were still friends and he said 'As far as I know'.

Fortune quit because he was angry that Roach left him with all his fighters to train when he went off to work with Oscar, yet wanted all the trainers fees for 'training' the fighters he abandoned when he left.

He just seems.......I don't know like not a sincere man. I always used to think him and Manny were real tight, the same with him and Toney but it turns out that Arum want's Pacquiao to distance himself from Roach, Freddie doesn't even bother to call Toney when he gets banned, he just seems a little off to me.

Contrast him with say Billy Graham who you could picture walking into a lions den with Ricky in a do or die effort, or Winky and Birmingham who seem to have a real bond.

People critiscise fighters for working with their fathers but honestly at least they are truly 100% behind you even if they may lack expertise and objectivity.

I'll be honest, Birminham was the first trainer to come to mind or a "Cost" with Tyson... I always had soooooooo much respect for freddie... He, sometimes we forget, was a good fighter too!

But he, in my mind is losing some steam... Maybe it's cuz he's trying to make as much as he can before he is dehibilitated, I don't know!

[:::PSL:::]

I see your point but at the same time, fighters such as Vasquez and Donaire who Roach laid the groundwork for are doing better than ever, plus Oscar lost a SD to Floyd, hardly a bad job considering he was a 5/2 under dog.

I didn't know Donaire was a Roach trained fighter although it makes sense seeing as he is the pied piper of Manilla.

Yeah, Nonito was trained by his father, Diosdao Gabi, and Freddie Roach at the wild card gym.

[DaxxKahn]

It's not just his ability as a coach though, remember Justin Fortune quit and walked out claiming Roach was ripping him off trying to claim the money for 'training' fighters he had dumped for De La Hoya and left Fortune to work. I know he's been accused of getting involved in disputes between Arum and Pacquio as well.

I'm havn't really made up my mind to be honest, I didn't like the fact that he dropped a lot of fighters to train Oscar, I know it was a great opportunity but he could have dealt with a bit bit better surely. I mean he seemingly manages to juggle training 101 fighters simultanously but when Oscar calls it's a 24/7 job and he's got no time for anybody else.

I havn't really come to a conclusion myself I just get the feeling from reading between the lines that he soon be falling from grace so to speak.
[/quote]


As far as the Money side of it all goes I can not say....I know Freddie is entitled to 10% I think by law so anything more then that I guess there would be a problem but again I can not comment on how the financials are.....If he manages and trains he is entitled up to 40%...If he is taking the full 40 I can see some guys getting ticked off

[Julius Rain]

if you think roach has been doing bad, what trainer has been doing good then

[Trainer Monkey]

if you think roach has been doing bad, what trainer has been doing good then

Me

I could have resisted doing that,but I didnt

[Preme]

boxers drop trainers all the time if they think they would be better off somewhere else... not being funny but manfedo is a nobody, yeah he was on a reality tv show, and yeah he can box abit, other than that hes going to get nowhere and i highly doubt will ever win anything or will be cared about in a couple of years time... you can't blame roach for taking the oscar role, thats where the money was, and future.. GBP are one of the biggest there is right now, and roach knew if he got in with oscar it would open up for him to train other GB fighters - and look who trained last....

[Julius Rain]

I think roach was worried about vazquez thats why he wasn't there in his corner. Isreal one of roach stubborn son prove himself. Its a classic how a fighter goes out nearly all by himself to redeem himself against a great fighter like rafa. It just shows how great isreal vazquez is too.

[Julius Rain]

that also proves that fighters do know whats best for them. ONly they can really know their condition. Isreal proved everybody wrong, and what a way to redemption.

[El Gamo]

I disagree Bilbo although good topic. Firstly,all trainers surely go through periods when their fighters are not winning,I'm sure a thread like this could have been done about Mcgirt not so long ago. Secondly,whilst I agree that the way he dropped everyone for Oscar wasn't what all trainers would have done but Freddy was not stupid,Oscar is a better fighter to train than Manfredo in that it brings Roach exposure,and would have gotten him ALOT of respect had Oscar won.Obvioulsy the $$$ helped too. He did as well with Oscar as anyone could have done imo.

He won his last fight with Bernard not to mention the numerous Filipino fighters he has/may have success with. Manny Pacquiao was a dangerous albeit limited fighter and now,under the tutillage of Roach,is a P4P monster. I think Roach deserves credit.

[Althugz]

I've never really rated Roach as a trainer. I agree with the first post..He doesn't always seem to be good for his fighters. I sometimes get that feeling about Emmanuel Steward as well. Naseem dipped in form under him and so has JT. Not a knock on either of their training skills but perhaps more a knock on their people skills? Like someone already mentioned if you have that bond with your trainer I think you'll see much better results. Maybe they just don't gel with everybody. Roach's biggest fighter is obviously Manny but I think he's lucky that Manny is quick and powerful because he lunges in a lot without much regard for defence.
A trainer I notice who's fighters do seem to improve when he is on board is Mayweather Sr. Love him or hate him, even though his claims of being ''the best trainer on the planet'' are very arrogant, he seems to get results. I'm interested to see how Joan Guzman does under him. He is the father and trainer (I don't care what Roger says, he jumped in when Floyd was already the man) of the Pound for Pound king. Oscar was obviously happy with him as well but circumstances changed which made it impossible for them to train together.

[Lance Uppercut]

How about Buddy McGirt, it seems like everytime he takes on a new already established fighter--they lose

[donnydarkoIRL]

Could be possible Roach is considering an alliance with oscar becoming the trainer of the young Golden Boy stable??

You no what i found weird bout freddy...In the videos of wher he trained B-Hop in front of the media allegedly at the end of a training camp. They were workin the pads and roach called combinations and movements that had Hop like wtf? At the end of a training camp a fighter (not to mention Hopkins) should instinctively no what the trainer means....What was the story there?

[BoxingGorilla]

I'm not sure what stance I want to take on this but I do know it was an enjoyable read, Bilbo. Good thoughts.


I do say that it is hard for me to believe that someone in his shape could keep on truckin' with the same pizazz year after year. There has to be obvious decline in the man and I often wonder how many people are just too scared to confront him about it for fear of hurting him emotionally.