BARRY BONDS

[SalTheButcher]

this is a great moment, its a shame it had to be the same year as that fraud barry bonds made headlines with his bullshit









---






http://youtube.com/watch?v=B-frsF_loao

[JT Rock]

Hi Jacking all the records What are you 12 you dont remember Bonds career before the 2000 season, I'll set you straight like I did to Julius Rain and his nonsense.

AGAIN TAKEN FROM A POST I ORIGINALLY DID ON THE OTHER BOARD TO REFUTE THE MOST IDIOTIC STATEMENTS I HAVE EVER SEEN TYPED

Before he was in a Giants uniform he was a nobody an average baseball player I believe at the age of 34 thats when he began to grow rapidly. .

Alright Julias you know I like to let it fly and tend to tell it like it is so dont take this the wrong way.... That is the dumbest F****** thing I have ever read in my whole entire life, and I hope you got an "F" based on the fucktardom of your above sentence.. Now being a baseball fan for 24 years and following the sport religiously I gotta call bullshit and let me show you why...

A nobody huh? average? 1st of all Before the quote un quote circumstances surrounding the last few years of Bonds career he was a 5 tool player and probably the best defensive left fielder in his prime ever to play the game.

SEAS TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1986 Pit 113 413 72 92 26 3 16 48 65 102 36 7 .223 .330 .416 .746
1987 Pit 150 551 99 144 34 9 25 59 54 88 32 10 .261 .329 .492 .821
1988 Pit 144 538 97 152 30 5 24 58 72 82 17 11 .283 .368 .491 .859
1989 Pit 159 580 96 144 34 6 19 58 93 93 32 10 .248 .351 .426 .777
1990 Pit 151 519 104 156 32 3 33 114 93 83 52 13 .301 .406 .565 .971
1991 Pit 153 510 95 149 28 5 25 116 107 73 43 13 .292 .410 .514 .924
1992 Pit 140 473 109 147 36 5 34 103 127 69 39 8 .311 .456 .624 1.080
1993 SF 159 539 129 181 38 4 46 123 126 79 29 12 .336 .458 .677 1.135
1994 SF 112 391 89 122 18 1 37 81 74 43 29 9 .312 .426 .647 1.073
1995 SF 144 506 109 149 30 7 33 104 120 83 31 10 .294 .431 .577 1.008
1996 SF 158 517 122 159 27 3 42 129 151 76 40 7 .308 .461 .615 1.076
1997 SF 159 532 123 155 26 5 40 101 145 87 37 8 .291 .446 .585 1.031
1998 SF 156 552 120 167 44 7 37 122 130 92 28 12 .303 .438 .609 1.047
1999 SF 102 355 91 93 20 2 34 83 73 62 15 2 .262 .389 .617 1.006

These are stats up until he was 34.. Yea 445 homeruns realy indicative of an average nobody

barry was in his 20's nobody knew this guy.

Awards
• 1990: National League Most Valuable Player • 1990: National League Gold Glove at OF

1991: National League Gold Glove at OF • 1992: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1992: National League Most Valuable Player • 1993: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1993: National League Gold Glove at OF • 1994: National League Gold Glove at OF
1994 ESPY: Male Athlete of the Year • 1994 ESPY: Outstanding Baseball Performer
• 1996: National League Gold Glove at OF • 1997: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1998: National League Gold Glove at OF

• 2001: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2002 ESPY: Moment of the Year • 2002: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2002 ESPY: Outstanding Baseball Performer • 2003: National League Most Valuable Player
• 2004: National League Most Valuable Player • 2004: National League Silver Slugger

up until he was 34 he had won 3 NL MVP awards and 7 gold gloves along with being espn's male sportman of the year in 94 as well as best baseball performer and was voted as Player of the Decade for the 1990's by The Sporting News not to mention that he is the only player in major league history to hit 500 homers and steal 500 bases


but yea Julius Rain Barry Bonds was just an average player and a nobody at age 34 I suggest you remove head from asss before you post utter garbage and unresearched ignorant statements..

If Barry retired at 34 he would already have been in the hall of fame

Enjoy SalTheBitcher

[SalTheButcher]

i never said he wasnt good, i used to like him, but then he became a douchebag cheater

[SalTheButcher]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

I called the folks that believe Bonds is clean either "devout or dim" and I would have to write a book to refute all of the ridiculous and often factually ignorant defenses of the man. I'll leave that to "Game of Shadows." But I will address the four most common bits of foolishness that poured in.

1. The claim, articulated here by Alvin, that "Barry Bonds had no knowledge of any illegal substances" and that no one can say Bonds "knowledgably abused any controlled substance."

This is all true. And for the sake of argument, I'll buy Bonds' unlikely arch that he thought the "the Clear" was flaxseed oil. For the purpose of this debate intent means nothing. So whatever he wants to say, he can say. But it doesn't change the fact that in grand jury testimony, as Alvin notes, he did take "The Clear." Knowingly or not, what's the difference? It was in his system as he clubbed 73 home runs. He benefited from it. So where's the debate?

2. Steroids were not banned by baseball.

Yes they were. People seem confused about this, but they were banned in 1991. Baseball didn't test until 2005, which is why the column places equal, if not greater, blame on Bud Selig (who came out worse than Bonds in this whole deal) and the players union that blocked it. But it was still banned.

3. He never failed a drug test.

That's because they never tested him before 2005. And even if they had, THG was designed to avoid detection. The blame here, again, is on baseball. But how that is a defense for Bonds is beyond me.

4. Steroids do not help someone hit a baseball.

According to the chemist who created "The Clear" for Victor Conte, it sure does. His name is Patrick Arnold, he served time for making this stuff, and here is his recent questioning by Bob Costas on HBO:

Costas: In addition to size and strength, you believe steroid use can help a baseball player with not just greater power but greater bat speed (and) hand-eye coordination, that it could account in a rise in batting average as well as home runs?

Arnold: No doubt in my mind. That's what the test results showed.

Costas: So people who say it can't help you hit a baseball are dead wrong?

Arnold: They just don't know the facts.

Arnold went on to say Conte told him Bonds' "reaction time" improved and likened one effect of the synthetic designer steroid to putting a player "in the zone" it provided such advanced focus. But hey, what does he know, he only invented the stuff.

I could go on, but it’s a waste of time. If you still want to believe he was clean, go for it. I get that for many people, this is just entertainment and who cares. Baywatch was once the most popular television show in the world and, needless to say, not everything was real on that. But spare me the unintelligible arguments that he was clean.

[JT Rock]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

I called the folks that believe Bonds is clean either "devout or dim" and I would have to write a book to refute all of the ridiculous and often factually ignorant defenses of the man. I'll leave that to "Game of Shadows." But I will address the four most common bits of foolishness that poured in.

1. The claim, articulated here by Alvin, that "Barry Bonds had no knowledge of any illegal substances" and that no one can say Bonds "knowledgably abused any controlled substance."

This is all true. And for the sake of argument, I'll buy Bonds' unlikely arch that he thought the "the Clear" was flaxseed oil. For the purpose of this debate intent means nothing. So whatever he wants to say, he can say. But it doesn't change the fact that in grand jury testimony, as Alvin notes, he did take "The Clear." Knowingly or not, what's the difference? It was in his system as he clubbed 73 home runs. He benefited from it. So where's the debate?

2. Steroids were not banned by baseball.

Yes they were. People seem confused about this, but they were banned in 1991. Baseball didn't test until 2005, which is why the column places equal, if not greater, blame on Bud Selig (who came out worse than Bonds in this whole deal) and the players union that blocked it. But it was still banned.

3. He never failed a drug test.

That's because they never tested him before 2005. And even if they had, THG was designed to avoid detection. The blame here, again, is on baseball. But how that is a defense for Bonds is beyond me.

4. Steroids do not help someone hit a baseball.

According to the chemist who created "The Clear" for Victor Conte, it sure does. His name is Patrick Arnold, he served time for making this stuff, and here is his recent questioning by Bob Costas on HBO:

Costas: In addition to size and strength, you believe steroid use can help a baseball player with not just greater power but greater bat speed (and) hand-eye coordination, that it could account in a rise in batting average as well as home runs?

Arnold: No doubt in my mind. That's what the test results showed.

Costas: So people who say it can't help you hit a baseball are dead wrong?

Arnold: They just don't know the facts.

Arnold went on to say Conte told him Bonds' "reaction time" improved and likened one effect of the synthetic designer steroid to putting a player "in the zone" it provided such advanced focus. But hey, what does he know, he only invented the stuff.

I could go on, but it’s a waste of time. If you still want to believe he was clean, go for it. I get that for many people, this is just entertainment and who cares. Baywatch was once the most popular television show in the world and, needless to say, not everything was real on that. But spare me the unintelligible arguments that he was clean.

Yea here is a list of the violaters from 05 to present

Major league players
Player Team Date announced Penalty Position Reference
Alex Sánchez Tampa Bay Devil Rays April 3, 2005 Ten days OF [2]
Jorge Piedra Colorado Rockies April 11, 2005 Ten days OF [3]
Agustín Montero Texas Rangers April 20, 2005 Ten days P [4]
Jamal Strong Seattle Mariners April 26, 2005 Ten days OF [5]
Juan Rincón Minnesota Twins May 2, 2005 Ten days P [6]
Rafael Betancourt Cleveland Indians July 8, 2005 Ten days P [7]
Rafael Palmeiro Baltimore Orioles August 1, 2005 Ten days 1B/DH [8]
Ryan Franklin Seattle Mariners August 2, 2005 Ten days P [9]
Mike Morse Seattle Mariners September 7, 2005 Ten days SS [10]
Carlos Almanzar Texas Rangers October 4, 2005 Ten days P [11]
Félix Heredia New York Mets October 18, 2005 Ten days P [12]
Matt Lawton New York Yankees November 2, 2005 Ten days OF [13]
Yusaku Iriki New York Mets April 28, 2006 Fifty games P [14]
Jason Grimsley Arizona Diamondbacks June 12, 2006 Fifty games P [15]
Guillermo Mota New York Mets November 1, 2006 Fifty games P [16]
Juan Salas Tampa Bay Devil Rays May 7, 2007 Fifty games P [17]
Neifi Perez


[edit] Players with major league experience suspended for violating minor league rules
Player Team Date announced Penalty Reference
Damian Moss Seattle Mariners April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [18]
Robert Machado Texas Rangers April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [19]
Clay Hensley San Diego Padres April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [20]
Brian Mallette Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [21]
Jon Nunnally Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [22]
Tom Evans Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [23]
Grant Roberts New York Mets April 22, 2005 Fifteen games [24]
Darnell McDonald Cleveland Indians May 6, 2005 Fifteen games [25]
Steve Smyth Chicago Cubs May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [26]
Christian Parker Colorado Rockies May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [27]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [28]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [29]
Ramón A. Castro Washington Nationals July 1, 2005 105 games (two violations) [30]
Matt Whiteside Toronto Blue Jays July 15, 2005 Fifteen games [31]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins August 12, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [32]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals August 16, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [33]
Nerio Rodríguez Pittsburgh Pirates May 19, 2006 Fifty games [34]
Abraham Núñez San Francisco Giants May 24, 2006 Fifty games [35]
Yamid Haad San Francisco Giants May 31, 2006 Fifty games [36]

Besides Palmeiro I would say its a skeleton crew of less than mediocre talent at best... Yet Bonds is 43 and having a year that would be a career year for most in their prime and he is probably the most tested player in sports today.

Dont believe everything you read, we live in a political society that can make or break people thru the media whether the info is true or not and is subject to much manipulation.

Barry's ability to read the strike zone and see pitches have been with him his whole career coupled with his superior hand eye coordination always complimented his graceful swing, just as junior Griffey

[frozensolid_702]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

I called the folks that believe Bonds is clean either "devout or dim" and I would have to write a book to refute all of the ridiculous and often factually ignorant defenses of the man. I'll leave that to "Game of Shadows." But I will address the four most common bits of foolishness that poured in.

1. The claim, articulated here by Alvin, that "Barry Bonds had no knowledge of any illegal substances" and that no one can say Bonds "knowledgably abused any controlled substance."

This is all true. And for the sake of argument, I'll buy Bonds' unlikely arch that he thought the "the Clear" was flaxseed oil. For the purpose of this debate intent means nothing. So whatever he wants to say, he can say. But it doesn't change the fact that in grand jury testimony, as Alvin notes, he did take "The Clear." Knowingly or not, what's the difference? It was in his system as he clubbed 73 home runs. He benefited from it. So where's the debate?

2. Steroids were not banned by baseball.

Yes they were. People seem confused about this, but they were banned in 1991. Baseball didn't test until 2005, which is why the column places equal, if not greater, blame on Bud Selig (who came out worse than Bonds in this whole deal) and the players union that blocked it. But it was still banned.

3. He never failed a drug test.

That's because they never tested him before 2005. And even if they had, THG was designed to avoid detection. The blame here, again, is on baseball. But how that is a defense for Bonds is beyond me.

4. Steroids do not help someone hit a baseball.

According to the chemist who created "The Clear" for Victor Conte, it sure does. His name is Patrick Arnold, he served time for making this stuff, and here is his recent questioning by Bob Costas on HBO:

Costas: In addition to size and strength, you believe steroid use can help a baseball player with not just greater power but greater bat speed (and) hand-eye coordination, that it could account in a rise in batting average as well as home runs?

Arnold: No doubt in my mind. That's what the test results showed.

Costas: So people who say it can't help you hit a baseball are dead wrong?

Arnold: They just don't know the facts.

Arnold went on to say Conte told him Bonds' "reaction time" improved and likened one effect of the synthetic designer steroid to putting a player "in the zone" it provided such advanced focus. But hey, what does he know, he only invented the stuff.

I could go on, but it’s a waste of time. If you still want to believe he was clean, go for it. I get that for many people, this is just entertainment and who cares. Baywatch was once the most popular television show in the world and, needless to say, not everything was real on that. But spare me the unintelligible arguments that he was clean.

Yea here is a list of the violaters from 05 to present

Major league players
Player Team Date announced Penalty Position Reference
Alex Sánchez Tampa Bay Devil Rays April 3, 2005 Ten days OF [2]
Jorge Piedra Colorado Rockies April 11, 2005 Ten days OF [3]
Agustín Montero Texas Rangers April 20, 2005 Ten days P [4]
Jamal Strong Seattle Mariners April 26, 2005 Ten days OF [5]
Juan Rincón Minnesota Twins May 2, 2005 Ten days P [6]
Rafael Betancourt Cleveland Indians July 8, 2005 Ten days P [7]
Rafael Palmeiro Baltimore Orioles August 1, 2005 Ten days 1B/DH [8]
Ryan Franklin Seattle Mariners August 2, 2005 Ten days P [9]
Mike Morse Seattle Mariners September 7, 2005 Ten days SS [10]
Carlos Almanzar Texas Rangers October 4, 2005 Ten days P [11]
Félix Heredia New York Mets October 18, 2005 Ten days P [12]
Matt Lawton New York Yankees November 2, 2005 Ten days OF [13]
Yusaku Iriki New York Mets April 28, 2006 Fifty games P [14]
Jason Grimsley Arizona Diamondbacks June 12, 2006 Fifty games P [15]
Guillermo Mota New York Mets November 1, 2006 Fifty games P [16]
Juan Salas Tampa Bay Devil Rays May 7, 2007 Fifty games P [17]
Neifi Perez


[edit] Players with major league experience suspended for violating minor league rules
Player Team Date announced Penalty Reference
Damian Moss Seattle Mariners April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [18]
Robert Machado Texas Rangers April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [19]
Clay Hensley San Diego Padres April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [20]
Brian Mallette Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [21]
Jon Nunnally Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [22]
Tom Evans Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [23]
Grant Roberts New York Mets April 22, 2005 Fifteen games [24]
Darnell McDonald Cleveland Indians May 6, 2005 Fifteen games [25]
Steve Smyth Chicago Cubs May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [26]
Christian Parker Colorado Rockies May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [27]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [28]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [29]
Ramón A. Castro Washington Nationals July 1, 2005 105 games (two violations) [30]
Matt Whiteside Toronto Blue Jays July 15, 2005 Fifteen games [31]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins August 12, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [32]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals August 16, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [33]
Nerio Rodríguez Pittsburgh Pirates May 19, 2006 Fifty games [34]
Abraham Núñez San Francisco Giants May 24, 2006 Fifty games [35]
Yamid Haad San Francisco Giants May 31, 2006 Fifty games [36]

Besides Palmeiro I would say its a skeleton crew of less than mediocre talent at best... Yet Bonds is 43 and having a year that would be a career year for most in their prime and he is probably the most tested player in sports today.

Dont believe everything you read, we live in a political society that can make or break people thru the media whether the info is true or not and is subject to much manipulation.

Barry's ability to read the strike zone and see pitches have been with him his whole career coupled with his superior hand eye coordination always complimented his graceful swing, just as junior Griffey

I just noticed your sig about Julius Rain..........

Did you happen to catch the post where he said "Floyd Mayweather will never be an all time great, he will just be another fighter like Pernell Whitaker."

WTF??

[JT Rock]

just noticed your sig about Julius Rain..........

Did you happen to catch the post where he said "Floyd Mayweather will never be an all time great, he will just be another fighter like Pernell Whitaker."

WTF??

Hahaha!!! No I didnt but I'm not suprised, thats what happens when you dont have a mind of your own and you contribute to old false recyled information.... Yea Cause Whitaker is a Ham an Egger all of a sudden

[SalTheButcher]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

I called the folks that believe Bonds is clean either "devout or dim" and I would have to write a book to refute all of the ridiculous and often factually ignorant defenses of the man. I'll leave that to "Game of Shadows." But I will address the four most common bits of foolishness that poured in.

1. The claim, articulated here by Alvin, that "Barry Bonds had no knowledge of any illegal substances" and that no one can say Bonds "knowledgably abused any controlled substance."

This is all true. And for the sake of argument, I'll buy Bonds' unlikely arch that he thought the "the Clear" was flaxseed oil. For the purpose of this debate intent means nothing. So whatever he wants to say, he can say. But it doesn't change the fact that in grand jury testimony, as Alvin notes, he did take "The Clear." Knowingly or not, what's the difference? It was in his system as he clubbed 73 home runs. He benefited from it. So where's the debate?

2. Steroids were not banned by baseball.

Yes they were. People seem confused about this, but they were banned in 1991. Baseball didn't test until 2005, which is why the column places equal, if not greater, blame on Bud Selig (who came out worse than Bonds in this whole deal) and the players union that blocked it. But it was still banned.

3. He never failed a drug test.

That's because they never tested him before 2005. And even if they had, THG was designed to avoid detection. The blame here, again, is on baseball. But how that is a defense for Bonds is beyond me.

4. Steroids do not help someone hit a baseball.

According to the chemist who created "The Clear" for Victor Conte, it sure does. His name is Patrick Arnold, he served time for making this stuff, and here is his recent questioning by Bob Costas on HBO:

Costas: In addition to size and strength, you believe steroid use can help a baseball player with not just greater power but greater bat speed (and) hand-eye coordination, that it could account in a rise in batting average as well as home runs?

Arnold: No doubt in my mind. That's what the test results showed.

Costas: So people who say it can't help you hit a baseball are dead wrong?

Arnold: They just don't know the facts.

Arnold went on to say Conte told him Bonds' "reaction time" improved and likened one effect of the synthetic designer steroid to putting a player "in the zone" it provided such advanced focus. But hey, what does he know, he only invented the stuff.

I could go on, but it’s a waste of time. If you still want to believe he was clean, go for it. I get that for many people, this is just entertainment and who cares. Baywatch was once the most popular television show in the world and, needless to say, not everything was real on that. But spare me the unintelligible arguments that he was clean.

Yea here is a list of the violaters from 05 to present

Major league players
Player Team Date announced Penalty Position Reference
Alex Sánchez Tampa Bay Devil Rays April 3, 2005 Ten days OF [2]
Jorge Piedra Colorado Rockies April 11, 2005 Ten days OF [3]
Agustín Montero Texas Rangers April 20, 2005 Ten days P [4]
Jamal Strong Seattle Mariners April 26, 2005 Ten days OF [5]
Juan Rincón Minnesota Twins May 2, 2005 Ten days P [6]
Rafael Betancourt Cleveland Indians July 8, 2005 Ten days P [7]
Rafael Palmeiro Baltimore Orioles August 1, 2005 Ten days 1B/DH [8]
Ryan Franklin Seattle Mariners August 2, 2005 Ten days P [9]
Mike Morse Seattle Mariners September 7, 2005 Ten days SS [10]
Carlos Almanzar Texas Rangers October 4, 2005 Ten days P [11]
Félix Heredia New York Mets October 18, 2005 Ten days P [12]
Matt Lawton New York Yankees November 2, 2005 Ten days OF [13]
Yusaku Iriki New York Mets April 28, 2006 Fifty games P [14]
Jason Grimsley Arizona Diamondbacks June 12, 2006 Fifty games P [15]
Guillermo Mota New York Mets November 1, 2006 Fifty games P [16]
Juan Salas Tampa Bay Devil Rays May 7, 2007 Fifty games P [17]
Neifi Perez


[edit] Players with major league experience suspended for violating minor league rules
Player Team Date announced Penalty Reference
Damian Moss Seattle Mariners April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [18]
Robert Machado Texas Rangers April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [19]
Clay Hensley San Diego Padres April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [20]
Brian Mallette Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [21]
Jon Nunnally Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [22]
Tom Evans Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [23]
Grant Roberts New York Mets April 22, 2005 Fifteen games [24]
Darnell McDonald Cleveland Indians May 6, 2005 Fifteen games [25]
Steve Smyth Chicago Cubs May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [26]
Christian Parker Colorado Rockies May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [27]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [28]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [29]
Ramón A. Castro Washington Nationals July 1, 2005 105 games (two violations) [30]
Matt Whiteside Toronto Blue Jays July 15, 2005 Fifteen games [31]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins August 12, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [32]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals August 16, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [33]
Nerio Rodríguez Pittsburgh Pirates May 19, 2006 Fifty games [34]
Abraham Núñez San Francisco Giants May 24, 2006 Fifty games [35]
Yamid Haad San Francisco Giants May 31, 2006 Fifty games [36]

Besides Palmeiro I would say its a skeleton crew of less than mediocre talent at best... Yet Bonds is 43 and having a year that would be a career year for most in their prime and he is probably the most tested player in sports today.

Dont believe everything you read, we live in a political society that can make or break people thru the media whether the info is true or not and is subject to much manipulation.

Barry's ability to read the strike zone and see pitches have been with him his whole career coupled with his superior hand eye coordination always complimented his graceful swing, just as junior Griffey

yea, but hand eye coordination + being 40+ years old = a bunch of hits, but not necessarily any HRs and with the reduced speed that comes with age probably a fucload less hits then a younger bonds...

[Julius Rain]

yea a good fighter like pernell but barely remember, unlike the real all time great that stands out in everyones mind. Floyd won't stand out like sugar ray, everybody will be like ooh yea floyd was good....thats about it. Unlikel remember sugar ray, everybody are like....hell yea sugar ray was the shyt. get the difference now?

[JT Rock]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

I called the folks that believe Bonds is clean either "devout or dim" and I would have to write a book to refute all of the ridiculous and often factually ignorant defenses of the man. I'll leave that to "Game of Shadows." But I will address the four most common bits of foolishness that poured in.

1. The claim, articulated here by Alvin, that "Barry Bonds had no knowledge of any illegal substances" and that no one can say Bonds "knowledgably abused any controlled substance."

This is all true. And for the sake of argument, I'll buy Bonds' unlikely arch that he thought the "the Clear" was flaxseed oil. For the purpose of this debate intent means nothing. So whatever he wants to say, he can say. But it doesn't change the fact that in grand jury testimony, as Alvin notes, he did take "The Clear." Knowingly or not, what's the difference? It was in his system as he clubbed 73 home runs. He benefited from it. So where's the debate?

2. Steroids were not banned by baseball.

Yes they were. People seem confused about this, but they were banned in 1991. Baseball didn't test until 2005, which is why the column places equal, if not greater, blame on Bud Selig (who came out worse than Bonds in this whole deal) and the players union that blocked it. But it was still banned.

3. He never failed a drug test.

That's because they never tested him before 2005. And even if they had, THG was designed to avoid detection. The blame here, again, is on baseball. But how that is a defense for Bonds is beyond me.

4. Steroids do not help someone hit a baseball.

According to the chemist who created "The Clear" for Victor Conte, it sure does. His name is Patrick Arnold, he served time for making this stuff, and here is his recent questioning by Bob Costas on HBO:

Costas: In addition to size and strength, you believe steroid use can help a baseball player with not just greater power but greater bat speed (and) hand-eye coordination, that it could account in a rise in batting average as well as home runs?

Arnold: No doubt in my mind. That's what the test results showed.

Costas: So people who say it can't help you hit a baseball are dead wrong?

Arnold: They just don't know the facts.

Arnold went on to say Conte told him Bonds' "reaction time" improved and likened one effect of the synthetic designer steroid to putting a player "in the zone" it provided such advanced focus. But hey, what does he know, he only invented the stuff.

I could go on, but it’s a waste of time. If you still want to believe he was clean, go for it. I get that for many people, this is just entertainment and who cares. Baywatch was once the most popular television show in the world and, needless to say, not everything was real on that. But spare me the unintelligible arguments that he was clean.

Yea here is a list of the violaters from 05 to present

Major league players
Player Team Date announced Penalty Position Reference
Alex Sánchez Tampa Bay Devil Rays April 3, 2005 Ten days OF [2]
Jorge Piedra Colorado Rockies April 11, 2005 Ten days OF [3]
Agustín Montero Texas Rangers April 20, 2005 Ten days P [4]
Jamal Strong Seattle Mariners April 26, 2005 Ten days OF [5]
Juan Rincón Minnesota Twins May 2, 2005 Ten days P [6]
Rafael Betancourt Cleveland Indians July 8, 2005 Ten days P [7]
Rafael Palmeiro Baltimore Orioles August 1, 2005 Ten days 1B/DH [8]
Ryan Franklin Seattle Mariners August 2, 2005 Ten days P [9]
Mike Morse Seattle Mariners September 7, 2005 Ten days SS [10]
Carlos Almanzar Texas Rangers October 4, 2005 Ten days P [11]
Félix Heredia New York Mets October 18, 2005 Ten days P [12]
Matt Lawton New York Yankees November 2, 2005 Ten days OF [13]
Yusaku Iriki New York Mets April 28, 2006 Fifty games P [14]
Jason Grimsley Arizona Diamondbacks June 12, 2006 Fifty games P [15]
Guillermo Mota New York Mets November 1, 2006 Fifty games P [16]
Juan Salas Tampa Bay Devil Rays May 7, 2007 Fifty games P [17]
Neifi Perez


[edit] Players with major league experience suspended for violating minor league rules
Player Team Date announced Penalty Reference
Damian Moss Seattle Mariners April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [18]
Robert Machado Texas Rangers April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [19]
Clay Hensley San Diego Padres April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [20]
Brian Mallette Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [21]
Jon Nunnally Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [22]
Tom Evans Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [23]
Grant Roberts New York Mets April 22, 2005 Fifteen games [24]
Darnell McDonald Cleveland Indians May 6, 2005 Fifteen games [25]
Steve Smyth Chicago Cubs May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [26]
Christian Parker Colorado Rockies May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [27]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [28]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [29]
Ramón A. Castro Washington Nationals July 1, 2005 105 games (two violations) [30]
Matt Whiteside Toronto Blue Jays July 15, 2005 Fifteen games [31]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins August 12, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [32]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals August 16, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [33]
Nerio Rodríguez Pittsburgh Pirates May 19, 2006 Fifty games [34]
Abraham Núñez San Francisco Giants May 24, 2006 Fifty games [35]
Yamid Haad San Francisco Giants May 31, 2006 Fifty games [36]

Besides Palmeiro I would say its a skeleton crew of less than mediocre talent at best... Yet Bonds is 43 and having a year that would be a career year for most in their prime and he is probably the most tested player in sports today.

Dont believe everything you read, we live in a political society that can make or break people thru the media whether the info is true or not and is subject to much manipulation.

Barry's ability to read the strike zone and see pitches have been with him his whole career coupled with his superior hand eye coordination always complimented his graceful swing, just as junior Griffey

yea, but hand eye coordination + being 40+ years old = a bunch of hits, but not necessarily any HRs and with the reduced speed that comes with age probably a fucload less hits then a younger bonds...

Listen man I understand both sides of the argument, but athletes are playing longer and still being effective at 40, whether were talking Basketball, baseball, football some boxers etc. its just a real confusing era of sports in general, unfortunately you can like it or not, those are the only 2 choices

[JT Rock]

yea a good fighter like pernell but barely remember, unlike the real all time great that stands out in everyones mind. Floyd won't stand out like sugar ray, everybody will be like ooh yea floyd was good....thats about it. Unlikel remember sugar ray, everybody are like....hell yea sugar ray was the shyt. get the difference now?

Nope, I echo the same sentiments as many and havent seen to many conversations about all time greats that didnt include Pernell Whitaker

[RP33]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

I called the folks that believe Bonds is clean either "devout or dim" and I would have to write a book to refute all of the ridiculous and often factually ignorant defenses of the man. I'll leave that to "Game of Shadows." But I will address the four most common bits of foolishness that poured in.

1. The claim, articulated here by Alvin, that "Barry Bonds had no knowledge of any illegal substances" and that no one can say Bonds "knowledgably abused any controlled substance."

This is all true. And for the sake of argument, I'll buy Bonds' unlikely arch that he thought the "the Clear" was flaxseed oil. For the purpose of this debate intent means nothing. So whatever he wants to say, he can say. But it doesn't change the fact that in grand jury testimony, as Alvin notes, he did take "The Clear." Knowingly or not, what's the difference? It was in his system as he clubbed 73 home runs. He benefited from it. So where's the debate?

2. Steroids were not banned by baseball.

Yes they were. People seem confused about this, but they were banned in 1991. Baseball didn't test until 2005, which is why the column places equal, if not greater, blame on Bud Selig (who came out worse than Bonds in this whole deal) and the players union that blocked it. But it was still banned.

3. He never failed a drug test.

That's because they never tested him before 2005. And even if they had, THG was designed to avoid detection. The blame here, again, is on baseball. But how that is a defense for Bonds is beyond me.

4. Steroids do not help someone hit a baseball.

According to the chemist who created "The Clear" for Victor Conte, it sure does. His name is Patrick Arnold, he served time for making this stuff, and here is his recent questioning by Bob Costas on HBO:

Costas: In addition to size and strength, you believe steroid use can help a baseball player with not just greater power but greater bat speed (and) hand-eye coordination, that it could account in a rise in batting average as well as home runs?

Arnold: No doubt in my mind. That's what the test results showed.

Costas: So people who say it can't help you hit a baseball are dead wrong?

Arnold: They just don't know the facts.

Arnold went on to say Conte told him Bonds' "reaction time" improved and likened one effect of the synthetic designer steroid to putting a player "in the zone" it provided such advanced focus. But hey, what does he know, he only invented the stuff.

I could go on, but it’s a waste of time. If you still want to believe he was clean, go for it. I get that for many people, this is just entertainment and who cares. Baywatch was once the most popular television show in the world and, needless to say, not everything was real on that. But spare me the unintelligible arguments that he was clean.

Yea here is a list of the violaters from 05 to present

Major league players
Player Team Date announced Penalty Position Reference
Alex Sánchez Tampa Bay Devil Rays April 3, 2005 Ten days OF [2]
Jorge Piedra Colorado Rockies April 11, 2005 Ten days OF [3]
Agustín Montero Texas Rangers April 20, 2005 Ten days P [4]
Jamal Strong Seattle Mariners April 26, 2005 Ten days OF [5]
Juan Rincón Minnesota Twins May 2, 2005 Ten days P [6]
Rafael Betancourt Cleveland Indians July 8, 2005 Ten days P [7]
Rafael Palmeiro Baltimore Orioles August 1, 2005 Ten days 1B/DH [8]
Ryan Franklin Seattle Mariners August 2, 2005 Ten days P [9]
Mike Morse Seattle Mariners September 7, 2005 Ten days SS [10]
Carlos Almanzar Texas Rangers October 4, 2005 Ten days P [11]
Félix Heredia New York Mets October 18, 2005 Ten days P [12]
Matt Lawton New York Yankees November 2, 2005 Ten days OF [13]
Yusaku Iriki New York Mets April 28, 2006 Fifty games P [14]
Jason Grimsley Arizona Diamondbacks June 12, 2006 Fifty games P [15]
Guillermo Mota New York Mets November 1, 2006 Fifty games P [16]
Juan Salas Tampa Bay Devil Rays May 7, 2007 Fifty games P [17]
Neifi Perez


[edit] Players with major league experience suspended for violating minor league rules
Player Team Date announced Penalty Reference
Damian Moss Seattle Mariners April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [18]
Robert Machado Texas Rangers April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [19]
Clay Hensley San Diego Padres April 4, 2005 Fifteen games [20]
Brian Mallette Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [21]
Jon Nunnally Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [22]
Tom Evans Pittsburgh Pirates April 6, 2005 Fifteen games [23]
Grant Roberts New York Mets April 22, 2005 Fifteen games [24]
Darnell McDonald Cleveland Indians May 6, 2005 Fifteen games [25]
Steve Smyth Chicago Cubs May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [26]
Christian Parker Colorado Rockies May 12, 2005 Fifteen games [27]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [28]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins May 13, 2005 Fifteen games [29]
Ramón A. Castro Washington Nationals July 1, 2005 105 games (two violations) [30]
Matt Whiteside Toronto Blue Jays July 15, 2005 Fifteen games [31]
Wilson Delgado Florida Marlins August 12, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [32]
Luis Ugueto Kansas City Royals August 16, 2005 Thirty games (second violation) [33]
Nerio Rodríguez Pittsburgh Pirates May 19, 2006 Fifty games [34]
Abraham Núñez San Francisco Giants May 24, 2006 Fifty games [35]
Yamid Haad San Francisco Giants May 31, 2006 Fifty games [36]

Besides Palmeiro I would say its a skeleton crew of less than mediocre talent at best... Yet Bonds is 43 and having a year that would be a career year for most in their prime and he is probably the most tested player in sports today.

Dont believe everything you read, we live in a political society that can make or break people thru the media whether the info is true or not and is subject to much manipulation.

Barry's ability to read the strike zone and see pitches have been with him his whole career coupled with his superior hand eye coordination always complimented his graceful swing, just as junior Griffey

yea, but hand eye coordination + being 40+ years old = a bunch of hits, but not necessarily any HRs and with the reduced speed that comes with age probably a fucload less hits then a younger bonds...

Listen man I understand both sides of the argument, but athletes are playing longer and still being effective at 40, whether were talking Basketball, baseball, football some boxers etc. its just a real confusing era of sports in general, unfortunately you can like it or not, those are the only 2 choices

Those are the two choices, but i'm not completely one way.. I mean, i definitely DONT like it, but i wish i did. It's more the cloud hanging over the HR record and baseball in general now.. i just want a player to break the homerun record without any steroid talk about them.. I'm not saying he definitely did or did not take steroids but lets face it, there was talk of him taking steroids before he was that close to the record.. He basically put it in HIS book that he took steroids.. he obviously didn't come out and say it but he nearly implied it, but i can't remember exactly what he said right now.

Chances are that Sosa/Mcgwire were on the juice too, but they weren't getting tested at the time. There is no way you can say 'Bonds wasn't on juice get over it' because there is no way to prove it.. So as far as you go, JT, you probably feel the way i do (just sick of it in general), and have heard so many people convinced he was on roids to the point where you just say he wasn't to shut them up.

Of course Canseco is talking about AROD being on juice now if you haven't heard that.. here we go again!

[Kirkland Laing]

I know this is a boxing forum, but the point of my post has relevance to Mr Bond. Personally I think baseball is boring, but mr bond has been getting criticism because allegedly he uses or has used steroids. The apparent reason for this is that during his career he has added extra weight. What a fucking ridiculous argument. In Michael Moorer's last light heavyweight bout he weighed 175LB. Four months later he weighed 213LB a gain of 38LBs. I’ve never seen Moorer getting accused of cheating so I cant understand why Bonds is getting criticised and accused.

Just at the age when most sluggers slow down in terms of home run production, B*nds sped up. He'd never have broken the record if he hadn't taken heroic quantities of steroids. That's why people are upset.

[zhubin]

I know this is a boxing forum, but the point of my post has relevance to Mr Bond. Personally I think baseball is boring, but mr bond has been getting criticism because allegedly he uses or has used steroids. The apparent reason for this is that during his career he has added extra weight. What a F****** ridiculous argument. In Michael Moorer's last light heavyweight bout he weighed 175LB. Four months later he weighed 213LB a gain of 38LBs. I’ve never seen Moorer getting accused of cheating so I cant understand why Bonds is getting criticised and accused.

NO

the reason for believing he took steroids has something to do with the fact that as he got close to 40 his performance improved and he gut a fuckload bigger


bonds is a scumbag who should be banned from baseball and selig should be overthrown for not taking
action

barry bonds i9s a SUCMBUCKET


SHUN HIM

***I posted this on a similar thread in the other board***

I would like to take out stock in Kleenex and hand them out to all the cryers yelling FOUL!!! No one was bitching in the mid 90's early 2000's when the balls were flying out of the park and attendances were high everyone in baseball were cashing in and would of left the whole situation alone until congress got involved a few years ago and made them do something. Then all of a sudden Baseball really cared about if the game was tainted

EVERYONE is guilty!!! FANS for watching and cheering.

OWNERS for allowing the players and cashing in on the rise and resurgence of the game.

MLB EXECUTIVES guilty for the same reason the owners are, just sitting back and riding the financial wave and turning a blind eye.

PLAYERS for doing it... and setting off of a chain reaction, we dont know how many position players and pitchers were using performance enhancing drugs. I would use if my lively hood depended on performing and the guy on the mound had an unfair edge then you bet your asss I would level the playing field and anyone sayng otherwise is a fukin liar

Bonds was a 1st ballot hall of famer before the controversy one of the best ever to lace them up with a tremendous pedigree... Bonds is the best player of this generation. If he got a boost by taking advantage of modern medicine then good for him because you can bet you asss there were plenty others doing the same thing. For all the testing and hoopla I find it funny that Bonds will finish up with over 30 dingers this year and leads the NL in walks and OBP and he is 43. I'm sure he is tested 10 ways to Texas and NEVER has failed the test...

To me this is a great time to celebrate Hank Aaron and his accompolishments as being one of the greatest in the game and all he had to endure.... The fact that he is 2nd time on the list does NOTHING to diminsh his career.. He was the best player of his era and generation



LEAVE THE FUKIN GUY ALONE ALREADY..... IF YOUR WERENT OUTRAGED 10YEARS AGO DURING THE LIVE BALL ERA WITH SOSA AND MCGWIRE AND ALL THE OTHER PROLIFIC HR HITTERS THEN SHUT THE FUK UP!!!!! HYPOCRITES..

To show you who cares when it comes down to it... The fans are still packing into the ballpark and attendance is at an all time high for a sport that is so dirty and tainted and soiled.... You could of fooled me that people are disgusted

************************************************** **********************************
Sal I find this quite humerous that you Rag on Bonds for his ALLEGED steroid use, but you have a Homo-Erotic love and passion for anything thats Professional Wrestling and those guys are the biggest juicers ever and thats a confirmed fact not a speculation

Well said. People really need to stop and think why there wasn't steroid testing until the collective-bargaining agreement in 2003. Remember that in 1994 the players strike lead to the owner lockout which lead to the cancellation of the world series. Baseballs popularity was at one of its lowest points. It was also during this time that congress passed the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA). Despite it's rosy title...DSHEA was not much more than a shady giveback to the pharmaceutical companies. Before this act passes, the manufacturer had to prove whether a product was safe before marketing it. After this act passed, the responsibility fell upon the already overloaded and underfunded FDA. It was after this act passes that the supplement industry became huge business, especially in the lockers of athletes. Because of DSHEA, teams began to import legal weight-lifting and dietary "supplements". Many of these, like Andro which Mark Mcgwire used, are now banned substances. After people heard of Mark using this, and saw his 1998 home run contest, sales for Andro rose 500%!! Soon after, almost every team in baseball had substances like Andro in their clubhouses. But guess what...almost no manager, GM, or player was screaming "cheating" then. Because people so often forget that sports is BIG BUSINESS. And the increased offense, the bigger home runs...meant way more $$$ and media attention. So people really need to stop villifying a guy like Bonds and look deeper into the issues. The GMs, managers, and players (for the most part) ignored, and actually condoned, the drug use. This wasn't just some amazing coincidence. And now that steroids are treated like one of the great evils in our society .....players like Bonds get the blame...while the guys who manage and own the teams are blameless and clueless bystanders.

[BoomBoom]

Innocent until Proven guilty. Im sure the feds have turned every stone to find something that will stick but nothing has shown up that has been exposed as of yet, so i doubt theyve found anything.As for not Barry Bonds has the homerun record. If hes fooling us he has to live with knowing hes a cheat, if not then he should be proud.