My Updated All-Time P4P List

[CutMeMick]

I applaud you Sugar for taking the time to make a P4P list especially top 50.

As pointed by VD, theres no 'Finito' on there that just feels like a kick in the balls to me when hes overlooked.

Zarate, Fitzsimmons, Larnin, Gans and Pryor all IMO have no business listed in their respective positions you put them. Especially Pryor when you compare his quality of opposition + longevity + career stats like titles and or division he fought in he falls VERY short.

How is Jofre #14 but 'Puas' Olivares is nowhere to be found?

I liked that you included Griffith in your list a bold move that I completely agree with maybe a little high but nonetheless I applaud you for doing so, not many remember or have seen the kind of animal this man was in that ring.
I have about 5 or 6 of his fights, 1 fight I've never seen and I probably wont ever see it thats his final bout against 'Kid' Paret.


All in all Sugar CC#131 on me for taking the time.

[skel1983]

I can't believe Casamayor is also not on the list

[Kev]

for the effort Sugar Shaw. Nobody will agree with anyone else 100% that's the nature of these things but fair play for making the effort and taking the time to do so.

I personally don't claim to be anywhere near of enough an authority to rank all the boxers who ever lived as many I've never even watched fight so kudos for having a go.

@frozensolid_702

Why don't think Holyfield should be there? He's surely one of the top 10 greatest heavies of all time, only Ali, Louis, Foreman, Johnson and maybe Marciano, Dempsey or Lewis rate above him. I'd say he ranks higher than Tyson, Frazier, Tunney, Liston and Patterson and I wouldn't have a problem with any of them being on the list.

As for Floyd, he's still in the prime of his career so his exact position cannot be determined yet. I think current fighters shouldn't be on the list until they have either retired or have effectively reached the summit of their career so that career can properly assessed. Floyds position could be as high as top 5 all time if he beats Mosely, Cotto, Hatton etc or barely in the top 50 if he loses to them.

Evander already a 4 time heavyweight champ has carved an assured place for himself in history irrespective of any future performances so his position can be determined.

[ICB]

for the effort Sugar Shaw. Nobody will agree with anyone else 100% that's the nature of these things but fair play for making the effort and taking the time to do so.

I personally don't claim to be anywhere near of enough an authority to rank all the boxers who ever lived as many I've never even watched fight so kudos for having a go.

@frozensolid_702

Why don't think Holyfield should be there? He's surely one of the top 10 greatest heavies of all time, only Ali, Louis, Foreman, Johnson and maybe Marciano, Dempsey or Lewis rate above him. I'd say he ranks higher than Tyson, Frazier, Tunney, Liston and Patterson and I wouldn't have a problem with any of them being on the list.

As for Floyd, he's still in the prime of his career so his exact position cannot be determined yet. I think current fighters shouldn't be on the list until they have either retired or have effectively reached the summit of their career so that career can properly assessed. Floyds position could be as high as top 5 all time if he beats Mosely, Cotto, Hatton etc or barely in the top 50 if he loses to them.

Evander already a 4 time heavyweight champ has carved an assured place for himself in history irrespective of any future performances so his position can be determined.

You forgot Holmes he is rated higher than Holyfield

But i agree with the rest.

[ICB]

I applaud you Sugar for taking the time to make a P4P list especially top 50.

As pointed by VD, theres no 'Finito' on there that just feels like a kick in the balls to me when hes overlooked.

Zarate, Fitzsimmons, Larnin, Gans and Pryor all IMO have no business listed in their respective positions you put them. Especially Pryor when you compare his quality of opposition + longevity + career stats like titles and or division he fought in he falls VERY short.

How is Jofre #14 but 'Puas' Olivares is nowhere to be found?

I liked that you included Griffith in your list a bold move that I completely agree with maybe a little high but nonetheless I applaud you for doing so, not many remember or have seen the kind of animal this man was in that ring.
I have about 5 or 6 of his fights, 1 fight I've never seen and I probably wont ever see it thats his final bout against 'Kid' Paret.


All in all Sugar CC#131 on me for taking the time.

I actually feel bit sorry for Pryor Mick Leonard didn't want anything to do with him he was supposed to fight Ray Boom Boom Mancini but Mancini got upset by Bramble alot of fighters ducked Pryor i agree he is bit overrated but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.


I also think Zarate is overrated aswell he had impressive ko record but lets be honest they were against cab drivers

And you know something else Mick i notice when alot of Boxing experts do these lists i think the old fighters get too much credit like from 30s 40s ect and newer fighters like in 80s don't get enough credit.

[Violent Demise]

100% agree with Ice. Older fighters get to much credit. Half the people making these silly lists have never even seen Harry Greb or Joe Gans fight. Yet they get put on a list. Great modern day fighters like Floyd Mayweather, Felix Trinidad, and Joel Casamayor get the shaft by not being included in lists. Ridicules.

[CutMeMick]

I actually feel bit sorry for Pryor Mick Leonard didn't want anything to do with him he was supposed to fight Ray Boom Boom Mancini but Mancini got upset by Bramble alot of fighters ducked Pryor i agree he is bit overrated but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

Well to each is own, but I mean an arguement can be made for Tszyu and Cervantes.

I also think Zarate is overrated aswell he had impressive ko record but lets be honest they were against cab drivers

Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

And you know something else Mick i notice when alot of Boxing experts do these lists i think the old fighters get too much credit like from 30s 40s ect and newer fighters like in 80s don't get enough credit.

Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?
Pinky?
Perkins?
Benitez?
So I personally just look at all the champs that have campaigned there and take it from there.

[ICB]

I actually feel bit sorry for Pryor Mick Leonard didn't want anything to do with him he was supposed to fight Ray Boom Boom Mancini but Mancini got upset by Bramble alot of fighters ducked Pryor i agree he is bit overrated but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

Well to each is own, but I mean an arguement can be made for Tszyu and Cervantes.

I also think Zarate is overrated aswell he had impressive ko record but lets be honest they were against cab drivers

Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

And you know something else Mick i notice when alot of Boxing experts do these lists i think the old fighters get too much credit like from 30s 40s ect and newer fighters like in 80s don't get enough credit.

Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?
Pinky?
Perkins?
Benitez?
So I personally just look at all the champs that have campaigned there and take it from there.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

I understand what your saying but i still think its unfair how all the big fighters avoided him and i consider him best Junior Welterweight Tszyu wouldn't of beat him he hated pressure fighters who didn't allow him to get distance aka Vince Phillips aka Hatton.




Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

Im not saying he beat all cab drivers but alot of his kos did come from cab drivers he beat few goodish opposition but when he come up against the elite of the elite he failed im not saying thats bad thing losing to people like Wilfredo Gomez Daniel Zaragoza Jeff Fenech is nothing to be ashamed of but i still feel Zarate is bit overrated he never beat any of the top boys and his best wins were against goodish opposition.



Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?

What i mean is like VD made good point people like Greb and ect people have never seen fight but he is top ten of there lists and i feel the newer fighters don't get a fair share slice.

[CutMeMick]

I understand what your saying but i still think its unfair how all the big fighters avoided him and i consider him best Junior Welterweight Tszyu wouldn't of beat him he hated pressure fighters who didn't allow him to get distance aka Vince Phillips aka Hatton.

Right I see your point, but I mean check this out Mancini didn't avoid him he just lost the set up fight.
SRL, let's just say he would have beaten SRL how much would that have helped him?
I mean SRL beat Hagler, Hearns & Duran and his legacy is still questioned and his place in history is still questioned.
About Tszyu vs. Pryor well who knows but I know it would have been one helluva fight.

Im not saying he beat all cab drivers but alot of his kos did come from cab drivers he beat few goodish opposition but when he come up against the elite of the elite he failed im not saying thats bad thing losing to people like Wilfredo Gomez Daniel Zaragoza Jeff Fenech is nothing to be ashamed of but i still feel Zarate is bit overrated he never beat any of the top boys and his best wins were against goodish opposition.

But see that's the thing he kept KOing his opponents even after the cab drivers ended and World Class opposition began, thats why his considered amongst the P4P hardest hitters. I'll give you the Gomez lost but come on it was a known fact that Zarate was fighting more to just earn a living rather then campaign to get a title shot. The oppourtunities presented themselves to fight for big money and a title and he went for it well past his best days but he went for it.
I agree on the overrated but I also think your slightly cutting him short a bit on his career.

What i mean is like VD made good point people like Greb and ect people have never seen fight but he is top ten of there lists and i feel the newer fighters don't get a fair share slice.

I agree, that's why I only comment or put my two cents on fighters I have seen.
If I haven't seen them fight then theres nothing for me to comment on or if I don't know their career and I have no idea as to what they accomplished I stay away from that.

[Spicoli]

I actually feel bit sorry for Pryor Mick Leonard didn't want anything to do with him he was supposed to fight Ray Boom Boom Mancini but Mancini got upset by Bramble alot of fighters ducked Pryor i agree he is bit overrated but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

Well to each is own, but I mean an arguement can be made for Tszyu and Cervantes.

I also think Zarate is overrated aswell he had impressive ko record but lets be honest they were against cab drivers

Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

And you know something else Mick i notice when alot of Boxing experts do these lists i think the old fighters get too much credit like from 30s 40s ect and newer fighters like in 80s don't get enough credit.

Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?
Pinky?
Perkins?
Benitez?
So I personally just look at all the champs that have campaigned there and take it from there.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

I understand what your saying but i still think its unfair how all the big fighters avoided him and i consider him best Junior Welterweight Tszyu wouldn't of beat him he hated pressure fighters who didn't allow him to get distance aka Vince Phillips aka Hatton.




Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

Im not saying he beat all cab drivers but alot of his kos did come from cab drivers he beat few goodish opposition but when he come up against the elite of the elite he failed im not saying thats bad thing losing to people like Wilfredo Gomez Daniel Zaragoza Jeff Fenech is nothing to be ashamed of but i still feel Zarate is bit overrated he never beat any of the top boys and his best wins were against goodish opposition.



Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?

What i mean is like VD made good point people like Greb and ect people have never seen fight but he is top ten of there lists and i feel the newer fighters don't get a fair share slice.

1 ,Alberto davila Was/Is No "cab-briver".ask zamora & L.pintor.Just because You Have Not Seen A Fighter by No Means They Were Not As Great As They really were...W.T.F.Belive It Or Not ?Read A Book,Watch some Tapes.With REspect Of course,Harry greb Was A Savage and I Trust The Scribes,historians,and fans before ME For some insight.Greb is hard to nail down on tape though=h.ls only but CASAMOYOR top 50 all time.Newbies go to the back of the line so 20 or 30 yrs. U can make the same points.

[outspoken]

I agree with the people here... Older fighters get too much credit. I mean you don't have fighters like Oscar de la hoya I mean the guy is a six divison champ... noone has ever done that.. where is he on your list? El Finito lopez? 49. Rocky Marciano ? haha... Think Trinidad should be there. After all you got pernell so high up there.

[ICB]

I actually feel bit sorry for Pryor Mick Leonard didn't want anything to do with him he was supposed to fight Ray Boom Boom Mancini but Mancini got upset by Bramble alot of fighters ducked Pryor i agree he is bit overrated but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

Well to each is own, but I mean an arguement can be made for Tszyu and Cervantes.

I also think Zarate is overrated aswell he had impressive ko record but lets be honest they were against cab drivers

Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

And you know something else Mick i notice when alot of Boxing experts do these lists i think the old fighters get too much credit like from 30s 40s ect and newer fighters like in 80s don't get enough credit.

Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?
Pinky?
Perkins?
Benitez?
So I personally just look at all the champs that have campaigned there and take it from there.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

I understand what your saying but i still think its unfair how all the big fighters avoided him and i consider him best Junior Welterweight Tszyu wouldn't of beat him he hated pressure fighters who didn't allow him to get distance aka Vince Phillips aka Hatton.




Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

Im not saying he beat all cab drivers but alot of his kos did come from cab drivers he beat few goodish opposition but when he come up against the elite of the elite he failed im not saying thats bad thing losing to people like Wilfredo Gomez Daniel Zaragoza Jeff Fenech is nothing to be ashamed of but i still feel Zarate is bit overrated he never beat any of the top boys and his best wins were against goodish opposition.



Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?

What i mean is like VD made good point people like Greb and ect people have never seen fight but he is top ten of there lists and i feel the newer fighters don't get a fair share slice.

1 ,Alberto Davila Was/Is No "cab-briver".ask zamora & L.pintor.Just because You Have Not Seen A Fighter by No Means They Were Not As Great As They really were...W.T.F.Belive It Or Not ?Read A Book,Watch some Tapes.With REspect Of course,Harry greb Was A Savage and I Trust The Scribes,historians,and fans before ME For some insight.Greb is hard to nail down on tape though=h.ls only but CASAMOYOR top 50 all time.Newbies go to the back of the line so 20 or 30 yrs. U can make the same points.

You totally misread what i said and put words into my mouth i said he beat alot of cab drivers i didn't say Alberto was cab driver or Pintor and he lost to Pintor so whats your point ?? nor did i say Zamora was a cab driver read what i said and i have actually watched Zarate's fights and know quite a bit about his career so again don't assume i haven't seen a fighter because you disagree with me.

You can trust historians all you want but if you haven't seen a fighter like Greb or ect you shouldn't just go along with it because your going along with someone else and not your own knowledge or experience of watching him fight.

[Violent Demise]

I actually feel bit sorry for Pryor Mick Leonard didn't want anything to do with him he was supposed to fight Ray Boom Boom Mancini but Mancini got upset by Bramble alot of fighters ducked Pryor i agree he is bit overrated but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

Well to each is own, but I mean an arguement can be made for Tszyu and Cervantes.

I also think Zarate is overrated aswell he had impressive ko record but lets be honest they were against cab drivers

Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

And you know something else Mick i notice when alot of Boxing experts do these lists i think the old fighters get too much credit like from 30s 40s ect and newer fighters like in 80s don't get enough credit.

Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?
Pinky?
Perkins?
Benitez?
So I personally just look at all the champs that have campaigned there and take it from there.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

I understand what your saying but i still think its unfair how all the big fighters avoided him and i consider him best Junior Welterweight Tszyu wouldn't of beat him he hated pressure fighters who didn't allow him to get distance aka Vince Phillips aka Hatton.




Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

Im not saying he beat all cab drivers but alot of his kos did come from cab drivers he beat few goodish opposition but when he come up against the elite of the elite he failed im not saying thats bad thing losing to people like Wilfredo Gomez Daniel Zaragoza Jeff Fenech is nothing to be ashamed of but i still feel Zarate is bit overrated he never beat any of the top boys and his best wins were against goodish opposition.



Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?

What i mean is like VD made good point people like Greb and ect people have never seen fight but he is top ten of there lists and i feel the newer fighters don't get a fair share slice.

1 ,Alberto davila Was/Is No "cab-briver".ask zamora & L.pintor.Just because You Have Not Seen A Fighter by No Means They Were Not As Great As They really were...W.T.F.Belive It Or Not ?Read A Book,Watch some Tapes.With REspect Of course,Harry greb Was A Savage and I Trust The Scribes,historians,and fans before ME For some insight.Greb is hard to nail down on tape though=h.ls only but CASAMOYOR top 50 all time.Newbies go to the back of the line so 20 or 30 yrs. U can make the same points.

I guess if scribes, historians and fans before you told you that Greb was God. You probably would believe it, huh? I go with what I see and make my own opinion. I don't follow the leader and go by somebody else opinion.

[Kev]

for the effort Sugar Shaw. Nobody will agree with anyone else 100% that's the nature of these things but fair play for making the effort and taking the time to do so.

I personally don't claim to be anywhere near of enough an authority to rank all the boxers who ever lived as many I've never even watched fight so kudos for having a go.

@frozensolid_702

Why don't think Holyfield should be there? He's surely one of the top 10 greatest heavies of all time, only Ali, Louis, Foreman, Johnson and maybe Marciano, Dempsey or Lewis rate above him. I'd say he ranks higher than Tyson, Frazier, Tunney, Liston and Patterson and I wouldn't have a problem with any of them being on the list.

As for Floyd, he's still in the prime of his career so his exact position cannot be determined yet. I think current fighters shouldn't be on the list until they have either retired or have effectively reached the summit of their career so that career can properly assessed. Floyds position could be as high as top 5 all time if he beats Mosely, Cotto, Hatton etc or barely in the top 50 if he loses to them.

Evander already a 4 time heavyweight champ has carved an assured place for himself in history irrespective of any future performances so his position can be determined.

You forgot Holmes he is rated higher than Holyfield

But i agree with the rest.

ah my bad you are right, Holmes is top 5 all time heavy for sure

[ICB]

for the effort Sugar Shaw. Nobody will agree with anyone else 100% that's the nature of these things but fair play for making the effort and taking the time to do so.

I personally don't claim to be anywhere near of enough an authority to rank all the boxers who ever lived as many I've never even watched fight so kudos for having a go.

@frozensolid_702

Why don't think Holyfield should be there? He's surely one of the top 10 greatest heavies of all time, only Ali, Louis, Foreman, Johnson and maybe Marciano, Dempsey or Lewis rate above him. I'd say he ranks higher than Tyson, Frazier, Tunney, Liston and Patterson and I wouldn't have a problem with any of them being on the list.

As for Floyd, he's still in the prime of his career so his exact position cannot be determined yet. I think current fighters shouldn't be on the list until they have either retired or have effectively reached the summit of their career so that career can properly assessed. Floyds position could be as high as top 5 all time if he beats Mosely, Cotto, Hatton etc or barely in the top 50 if he loses to them.

Evander already a 4 time heavyweight champ has carved an assured place for himself in history irrespective of any future performances so his position can be determined.

You forgot Holmes he is rated higher than Holyfield

But i agree with the rest.

ah my bad you are right, Holmes is top 5 all time heavy for sure

Never mind mate you can't remember everyone back.