Logically why the universe cannot be infinite in size.

[BoxingGorilla]

The edge isn't physical but the gravity around that area would prevent you from moving any further in that direction. Pun

I see.


Really, I guess it doesn't make a difference. We are not capable of getting anywhere close to the edge of the universe and reporting back to anyone so it is infinite as far as humans are concerned.

If Pi is infinite then I'd bet that the universe is as well. What good is an infinite number in a finite universe?

[SlimTrae]

The one problem I see with your theory is that you are saying that infinite is an individual number ie 5737027593. From what I have learned in my math classes is that infinite is not an individual number, it is just a way of saying a number larger than what we can imagine. Like someone already said there is always a number larger than whatever number you can come up with.

At least mathematically speaking.

That's how I see it!

The edge isn't physical but the gravity around that area would prevent you from moving any further in that direction. Pun

I see.


Really, I guess it doesn't make a difference. We are not capable of getting anywhere close to the edge of the universe and reporting back to anyone so it is infinite as far as humans are concerned.

If Pi is infinite then I'd bet that the universe is as well. What good is an infinite number in a finite universe?

The edge isn't physical but the gravity around that area would prevent you from moving any further in that direction.<<--How I think of the edge.

The one problem I see with your theory is that you are saying that infinite is an individual number ie 5737027593. From what I have learned in my math classes is that infinite is not an individual number, it is just a way of saying a number larger than what we can imagine. Like someone already said there is always a number larger than whatever number you can come up with.

At least mathematically speaking.

Here's the thing with numbers, their only purpose is to help us understand the world around us. Let's say 100 was the biggest number we'd need to use to measure anything. We could add 1 to that to make number 101 but that number would have no use other than being a number. The same thing goes for the really small numbers. After so many places right to the decimal, there's no value in that number. Like .00000000000000000000000001 may have a purpose somewhere in our field but several places down the line its value in the real world realistically becomes 0 as nothing that small currently exists or is measureable.

I can't say I define numbers (symbols to define them) as some would say; an invention. IMO it is an internal system that allows anything with consciousness to account for its surroundings.
My example is my girlfriends cat. that fur ball IMO has no clue of math, but it knew how to figure out some of her kittens were missing. meaning it can comprehend amassing and the opposite-losing what she had.

The marvel of the Arabic numeral system IMO proves it is not an invention. Now Roman numeral system was an invention that proved faulty.
To add, subtract, computational, to divide, to multiply, summarize fractions are not inventions rather a means in which our brains reason & or perceive as a result of our eternal creator endowing us with the ability to account to amass.
It is a skill acquired depending on the civilization in question.
Our numeral system with placements using just the symbols of 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 allows us to determine a dosage of medicine or how to send a satelite into space is beyond symbols, into something I know blows my mind like calculus.

And I love math's symmetry. When I see examples like:
1x1 : 1

11x11 : 121

111x111 : 12321

111x111 : 1234321


This IMO is proof we humans have raised our level of thinking to comprehend numbers aren't just symbols to add or subtract. We've learned we can make formulas, determine medicinal dosage, hypothesize where to launch a satellite----and it gets there!!!
so if we can't find an end number in our minds, chances are we won't find an end number to the universe as in 999 quintillion miles away.
Somehow math and the universe are tied together. To understand our universe one has to have some understanding of math.
To learn our table of elements shows what happens when a single proton or electron is added or subtracted is more proof that math isnt an invention of man.
So smoothly flowing that allows us to learn gases, liquids, solids, minerals, oh the beauty of math symmetry!



I'll end on this note- one person whom I follow from a spiritual perspective (religion) impressed upon me that if we were to have a conversation with the messiah, on how we were created (his/her) language would be closer to calculi than English, Arabic etc.

[amat]

Can't think about this type of stuff unless I'm high.

There is SO MUCH that we don't know though. Think about it. What the fuck are black holes? Nothing? How the fuck is that possible?

And how do we know the Earth's core is molten lava? Have we ever been there? What if it's water or something?

And it's ridiculous when people think we are the only lifeforms in the universe. Absolutely stupid. We are a nothing but a snowflake, for all we know other life knows we are here but has no reason to bother with us.

Talking about aliens, look at the Ocean. That is a WIERD place, yet we want to see life on Mars? Fuck that, find out what is on Earth first.

[No Contest]

Well, it seems like every time we think we have seen the smallest particle, there seems to be another discovered when microscopes improve. You got atoms then protons/nuetrons/electrons, then quarks and leptons...

[BoxingGorilla]

Talking about aliens, look at the Ocean. That is a WIERD place, yet we want to see life on Mars? F*** that, find out what is on Earth first. Amat


Good point.

It's always been a fantasy of mine to drain Lock Ness and see what the hell is really in there. I know that it has underground acess to open water but there has to be a way to "get to the bottom" of things there.

[brucelee]

Ok this a problem for the more curious amongst you Punisher etc but it is always said that the universe is infinite in size.

I however disagree with this as being scientifically impossible and I'm wondering who agrees with me?

If we believe the scientific model that the universe started from a Big Bang, then literally at the beginnning there was nothing. Now when the universe exploded into existence it began to expand according to science.

Now here's my problem. If something starts from somewhere, i.e has a beginning it can never be infinite in size or any other way, just not possible.

You cannot expand yourself to infinity because you'd never get there. By expanding you'll always be bigger than you were before but not as big as you are soon going to be, kind of like Bigaru or Boxing Gorilla :P


Anyways imagine it with numbers, if you start at 1 you cannot ever get to infinity by adding numbers because there will always be a higher number out there.

If the universe started from a tiny fixed point and has expanded ever since it cannot be infinite in size. If you could trace it back 15 billion or so years to the beginning (according to science) and it would be so small you could hold it on an eye of a needle then how can it be infinite in size now?

Not possible, it's just very very very very F****** big but not infinite.


Thankyou.

The big bang theory remains a theory. It is for this reason that I would rather believe that God created everything. The big bang theory espouses on the idea of a chaotic universe but as you can observe, the earth revolves around the sun in an orderly manner............so many other reasons why I believe there is God who created everything.

[Kev]

Ok this a problem for the more curious amongst you Punisher etc but it is always said that the universe is infinite in size.

I however disagree with this as being scientifically impossible and I'm wondering who agrees with me?

If we believe the scientific model that the universe started from a Big Bang, then literally at the beginnning there was nothing. Now when the universe exploded into existence it began to expand according to science.

Now here's my problem. If something starts from somewhere, i.e has a beginning it can never be infinite in size or any other way, just not possible.

You cannot expand yourself to infinity because you'd never get there. By expanding you'll always be bigger than you were before but not as big as you are soon going to be, kind of like Bigaru or Boxing Gorilla :P


Anyways imagine it with numbers, if you start at 1 you cannot ever get to infinity by adding numbers because there will always be a higher number out there.

If the universe started from a tiny fixed point and has expanded ever since it cannot be infinite in size. If you could trace it back 15 billion or so years to the beginning (according to science) and it would be so small you could hold it on an eye of a needle then how can it be infinite in size now?

Not possible, it's just very very very very F****** big but not infinite.


Thankyou.

The big bang theory remains a theory. It is for this reason that I would rather believe that God created everything. The big bang theory espouses on the idea of a chaotic universe but as you can observe, the earth revolves around the sun in an orderly manner............so many other reasons why I believe there is God who created everything.

to you, I agree completely

[BoxingGorilla]

Oh, I believe that God created everything. I'm just chatting about the topic at hand without bringing that into play. Most people will tune you out as soon as you say His name.

[Fenster]

It's always been a fantasy of mine to drain Lock Ness and see what the hell is really in there.

Bigfoot and his submarine.

[donnydarkoIRL]

This is something that has amazed, confused and scared me since a very early age.
My first point is that numbers cannot possibly be used to represent the universe. Numbers are a man made tool, a crude tool at that, nowhere near accurate enough to convey something that was a result of a much higher power. However being inquisitive like everybody else il run with this n try to reason.

The start of every experiment must be based upon a hypothesis.
1)We'll grab Bilbo's hypothesis; The univerese cannot be infinite.
2)Grab a theory; if the universe is not infinite, it has a nominal size.
3)Expand; if it has a nominal size, it is "contained."
Hitmandonnys Scientific experiment 1:
Grab an egg. This will represent the earth, all life on it, all natural features on it etc. Follow. Egg=Earth.
Grab the egg n chuck it in a bowl. Bowl represents universe.
So far we have shown the universes ability to contain the planet earth. If you so wish throw in the various other planets, use oranges, apples whatever, be as imaginative as you want, use glitter for stars for all i care, but the representation is the same. Bowl CONTAINS Apple, egg, orange etc. This illustrates the Universes capability of supporting and containing a massive amount of natural material, i.e. Rock, water, Carbon dioxide, oxygen Hydrogen, all matter.

However, another factor is now observed. The bowl is sitting on the table. The universe, containing all stated components is located within another enviroment. Furthermore it is noted, the table is within the kitchen, the kitchen is contained in the house, the house in the yard etc.

So u got the egg, in the bowl, on the table, in the kitchen, in the house, in the yard right. That equates to the earth, within the universe, within the larger universe, contained in a larger universe, contained in another etc.
So this experiment is inconclusive.

The only thing my experiment has proven is that man's "logical" thinking is not sufficient to figure out this mystery.

And thats why i feel Ricky Hatton will beat Floyd Mayweather.

[Kev]

This is something that has amazed, confused and scared me since a very early age.
My first point is that numbers cannot possibly be used to represent the universe. Numbers are a man made tool, a crude tool at that, nowhere near accurate enough to convey something that was a result of a much higher power. However being inquisitive like everybody else il run with this n try to reason.

The start of every experiment must be based upon a hypothesis.
1)We'll grab Bilbo's hypothesis; The univerese cannot be infinite.
2)Grab a theory; if the universe is not infinite, it has a nominal size.
3)Expand; if it has a nominal size, it is "contained."
Hitmandonnys Scientific experiment 1:
Grab an egg. This will represent the earth, all life on it, all natural features on it etc. Follow. Egg=Earth.
Grab the egg n chuck it in a bowl. Bowl represents universe.
So far we have shown the universes ability to contain the planet earth. If you so wish throw in the various other planets, use oranges, apples whatever, be as imaginative as you want, use glitter for stars for all i care, but the representation is the same. Bowl CONTAINS Apple, egg, orange etc. This illustrates the Universes capability of supporting and containing a massive amount of natural material, i.e. Rock, water, Carbon dioxide, oxygen Hydrogen, all matter.

However, another factor is now observed. The bowl is sitting on the table. The universe, containing all stated components is located within another enviroment. Furthermore it is noted, the table is within the kitchen, the kitchen is contained in the house, the house in the yard etc.

So u got the egg, in the bowl, on the table, in the kitchen, in the house, in the yard right. That equates to the earth, within the universe, within the larger universe, contained in a larger universe, contained in another etc.
So this experiment is inconclusive.

The only thing my experiment has proven is that man's "logical" thinking is not sufficient to figure out this mystery.

And thats why i feel Ricky Hatton will beat Floyd Mayweather.

lol I can imagine Punisher reading your post, getting all excited thinking you are about to reveal some great piece of truth that would help him towards completing his 'theory of everything'.

Then when it all led to your Hatton will beat Floyd comment I can imagine him throwing his scribbled notes on the floor in disgust shouting 'Meh!'

[donnydarkoIRL]

CC returned mate.

But no seriously, i need that oxytocin quick.

[brucelee]

This is something that has amazed, confused and scared me since a very early age.
My first point is that numbers cannot possibly be used to represent the universe. Numbers are a man made tool, a crude tool at that, nowhere near accurate enough to convey something that was a result of a much higher power. However being inquisitive like everybody else il run with this n try to reason.

The start of every experiment must be based upon a hypothesis.
1)We'll grab Bilbo's hypothesis; The univerese cannot be infinite.
2)Grab a theory; if the universe is not infinite, it has a nominal size.
3)Expand; if it has a nominal size, it is "contained."
Hitmandonnys Scientific experiment 1:
Grab an egg. This will represent the earth, all life on it, all natural features on it etc. Follow. Egg=Earth.
Grab the egg n chuck it in a bowl. Bowl represents universe.
So far we have shown the universes ability to contain the planet earth. If you so wish throw in the various other planets, use oranges, apples whatever, be as imaginative as you want, use glitter for stars for all i care, but the representation is the same. Bowl CONTAINS Apple, egg, orange etc. This illustrates the Universes capability of supporting and containing a massive amount of natural material, i.e. Rock, water, Carbon dioxide, oxygen Hydrogen, all matter.

However, another factor is now observed. The bowl is sitting on the table. The universe, containing all stated components is located within another enviroment. Furthermore it is noted, the table is within the kitchen, the kitchen is contained in the house, the house in the yard etc.

So u got the egg, in the bowl, on the table, in the kitchen, in the house, in the yard right. That equates to the earth, within the universe, within the larger universe, contained in a larger universe, contained in another etc.
So this experiment is inconclusive.

The only thing my experiment has proven is that man's "logical" thinking is not sufficient to figure out this mystery.

And thats why i feel Ricky Hatton will beat Floyd Mayweather.

lol. I must agree with this conclusion. cc hitman after 24 hour limit.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Thanks Bruce .

[BoxingGorilla]

I disagree about the number thing, Donny.

Numbers are the "universial" language. Once you decipher the symbol used to represent the amount, of course.