Pavlik VS Kessler

[Wacko3205]

People are way overhyping Pavlik... Kessler would destroy him.

Possibly, but it's easy to overhype a guy who KTFO the guy who beat Hopkins and Wright, as well as KFTO a guy who put a serious hurt on AA. Safe to say Pavlik has a better resume at this point than Kessler, though I personally think they will have pretty equal resumes by Nov. 4.

I think you might underrate him a little, Taeth, because he has holes in his defensive game and he gets hit a lot, and it seems you me a show bit of a preference to fighters who can make guys miss.

That being said - I think Kessler probably wins. I don't think he destroys him, and I would give Pavlik a decent chance.

SeanE. Totally agree.

Funny how taylor was crap before the fight now he's being used a benchmark for pavlik.....i agree with those who think kessler would be too big of a step up right now. Kessler is preparing for one of the biggest fights of the year right now, calzaghe is the only thing he should be thinking about right now, not possibly fighting the guy (pavlik) who is supposed to fight the guy (duddy) who fights this weekend against some guy (Prince Arron )

Taylor wasn’t crap…he was just under performing. Anyone that followed Taylor prior to him teaming up with HBO & Manny will tell you that he was fantastic & he was a much different fighter than he is now. Also…of course the champion of the middleweight division is going to be a benchmark…but for some reason everyone has swept Miranda under the rug & decided to label him as crap.

Happens everyday.

Being a fan of Kessler, Calzaghe, & Pavlik…I can say that both of those names before Kelly’s would come out on top of their matches. Kessler’s to big & Calzaghe’s too fast.

What kills me about Pavlik is that everyone acts like he’s done nothing at middleweight & that he just popped out of thin air.

Kelly Pavlik has been either the #2 or #3 contender for a looooooooooong time. When he wasn’t & was just coming up, prior to Miranda making it big, he was known as being the danger man of the division. I hate it that most people didn’t recognize Pavlik as a threat…but I’m glad to have seen him come up & for him to make the splash that he did at 160lbs by destroying Miranda & Taylor inside of 7 basically puts an exclamation point on what he’s capable of.

The fact that he’s built his career on nine back to back knockouts with legitimate competition makes it even better. Pavlik’s record boast 32 wins with 29 knockouts over names such as Beaupierre, Pierre, Zuniga, McKart, Taylor, Miranda, & Zertuche…all of whom are worthy contenders & former champions. That’s something that many fighters of late can’t boast.

Honestly…for the first time in a long, long, long time I can honestly say that I am proud to call a fighter champion. He’s good for boxing & he’s good for the people. What more can you ask for?

[Wacko3205]

Pavlik is a monster at Middleweight but Kessler is something different altogether, having seen him up close against Mundine i just don't see Kessler losing to Pavlik. It's a fight that has to happen though, maybe in a year?

Agreed. Kessler is fantastic...but also...Kessler is a legit champion that has spent his career as a super middle. While everyone keeps screaming that Pavlik is a natural 168lb'er...he's not.

Pavlik has been a middle for the duration & no matter what anyone says...I can't see him as anything else & I surely couldn't see him making the jump to 168 to face the champions of that division on his first crack.

[Mar]

Ok, ok, i've started a hornets nest here, i shouldn't have wrote it the way i did, i wasn't trying to say taylor was garbage, i'm saying thats the type of respect he was getting before the pavlik fight, even though he was and undefeated champ at the time, does that make better sense or am i still sounding like an assclown ?? Sad click away if necessarry after re reading my post i deserve it !!

[JT Rock]

Pavlik is a monster at Middleweight but Kessler is something different altogether, having seen him up close against Mundine i just don't see Kessler losing to Pavlik. It's a fight that has to happen though, maybe in a year?

Agreed. Kessler is fantastic...but also...Kessler is a legit champion that has spent his career as a super middle. While everyone keeps screaming that Pavlik is a natural 168lb'er...he's not.

Pavlik has been a middle for the duration & no matter what anyone says...I can't see him as anything else & I surely couldn't see him making the jump to 168 to face the champions of that division on his first crack.

I hear you Wack but you know Kelly being the fighter that he is, if the offer was on the table and the money was fair Pavlik would go to Denmark or Wales to fight either of those guys 1st fight at 168 without a though, hell even though he would get smoked he would fight Wlad Klitschko if the conditions were right, its the Warrior in Pavlik

[RozzySean]

Ok, ok, i've started a hornets nest here, i shouldn't have wrote it the way i did, i wasn't trying to say taylor was garbage, i'm saying thats the type of respect he was getting before the pavlik fight, even though he was and undefeated champ at the time, does that make better sense or am i still sounding like an assclown ?? Sad click away if necessarry after re reading my post i deserve it !!

I can't speak for anybody else, but it seemed to me that you were saying that people on the group were calling Taylor crap, whereas most people around here, IMHO seemed to think that Taylor was good but fighting crap fighters, and maybe a little lucky with the judges in his big fights.. Most people around here rated and rate him pretty highly, I think.

[Wacko3205]

Ok, ok, i've started a hornets nest here, i shouldn't have wrote it the way i did, i wasn't trying to say taylor was garbage, i'm saying thats the type of respect he was getting before the pavlik fight, even though he was and undefeated champ at the time, does that make better sense or am i still sounding like an assclown ?? Sad click away if necessarry after re reading my post i deserve it !!

Don't do that. Don't apologize.

You were just discussing. You didn't say anything wrong. You voiced your opinion & furthered the topic. You done fine.

That being said...I agree...he was being disrespected...even by his fans at home & abroad. I was a huge fan of Taylor's prior to the Hopkins fights, & it wasn't due to the fact that he "beat" Bernard, that I stopped being a Bad Intentions fan. Taylor changed. Mentally & inside the ring. He started believing the hype that HBO was pushing & he became a different person. You can't blame him & I would imagine that it'd be almost impossible for a youngin like Taylor to remain himself after tasting fame & fortune that comes with an HBO sponsorship.

I hope that Pavlik stays grounded...I'll be sorely disappointed if he changes. There's too much purity in him right now to wish it away...we haven't had a fighter on top like him in quite some time. I can honestly say that I am proud to be a fan right now.

for the comments. You got the thread going in a different direction & you surely didn't come off as an "assclown"...ya done good son.

[Wacko3205]

Pavlik is a monster at Middleweight but Kessler is something different altogether, having seen him up close against Mundine i just don't see Kessler losing to Pavlik. It's a fight that has to happen though, maybe in a year?

Agreed. Kessler is fantastic...but also...Kessler is a legit champion that has spent his career as a super middle. While everyone keeps screaming that Pavlik is a natural 168lb'er...he's not.

Pavlik has been a middle for the duration & no matter what anyone says...I can't see him as anything else & I surely couldn't see him making the jump to 168 to face the champions of that division on his first crack.

I hear you Wack but you know Kelly being the fighter that he is, if the offer was on the table and the money was fair Pavlik would go to Denmark or Wales to fight either of those guys 1st fight at 168 without a though, hell even though he would get smoked he would fight Wlad Klitschko if the conditions were right, its the Warrior in Pavlik

Agreed & well stated.

Kelly needs a good manager, IWO. One that will look out for his better interests because that fool WILL fight anyone that calls on him.

I want to see him stay @ 160lbs just for the fact that he does the division good & there are some fantastic match ups to be made.

[Wacko3205]

Ok, ok, i've started a hornets nest here, i shouldn't have wrote it the way i did, i wasn't trying to say taylor was garbage, i'm saying thats the type of respect he was getting before the pavlik fight, even though he was and undefeated champ at the time, does that make better sense or am i still sounding like an assclown ?? Sad click away if necessarry after re reading my post i deserve it !!

I can't speak for anybody else, but it seemed to me that you were saying that people on the group were calling Taylor crap, whereas most people around here, IMHO seemed to think that Taylor was good but fighting crap fighters, and maybe a little lucky with the judges in his big fights.. Most people around here rated and rate him pretty highly, I think.

Agreed on the hi-lited part.

Most people seemed to just be disgusted with the opposition & the outcome.

Taylor's a great fighter with fantastic attributes...but IWO...he's been selling himself short by fighting the fighters that he & his team have chosen to pit themselves against. Had Taylor been able to press himself on Spinks & Ouma...had he defeated Wright handily...we wouldn't even be discussing this matter under such thorough scrutiny.

[Mar]

Ok, ok, i've started a hornets nest here, i shouldn't have wrote it the way i did, i wasn't trying to say taylor was garbage, i'm saying thats the type of respect he was getting before the pavlik fight, even though he was and undefeated champ at the time, does that make better sense or am i still sounding like an assclown ?? Sad click away if necessarry after re reading my post i deserve it !!

Don't do that. Don't apologize.

You were just discussing. You didn't say anything wrong. You voiced your opinion & furthered the topic. You done fine.

That being said...I agree...he was being disrespected...even by his fans at home & abroad. I was a huge fan of Taylor's prior to the Hopkins fights, & it wasn't due to the fact that he "beat" Bernard, that I stopped being a Bad Intentions fan. Taylor changed. Mentally & inside the ring. He started believing the hype that HBO was pushing & he became a different person. You can't blame him & I would imagine that it'd be almost impossible for a youngin like Taylor to remain himself after tasting fame & fortune that comes with an HBO sponsorship.

I hope that Pavlik stays grounded...I'll be sorely disappointed if he changes. There's too much purity in him right now to wish it away...we haven't had a fighter on top like him in quite some time. I can honestly say that I am proud to be a fan right now.

for the comments. You got the thread going in a different direction & you surely didn't come off as an "assclown"...ya done good son.

CC right back, and thanks for the comment, i think i was misunderstood so i was apologizing for that, i didn't mean to start a huge debate especially one being kinda off topic, when i'm giving my opinion it's just that and i would never apologize for that...at the same time when i'm wrong i am so i take that too, and it does happen so thats why i love it here with people much more knowledgeable than I.

[JT Rock]

Pavlik is a monster at Middleweight but Kessler is something different altogether, having seen him up close against Mundine i just don't see Kessler losing to Pavlik. It's a fight that has to happen though, maybe in a year?

Agreed. Kessler is fantastic...but also...Kessler is a legit champion that has spent his career as a super middle. While everyone keeps screaming that Pavlik is a natural 168lb'er...he's not.

Pavlik has been a middle for the duration & no matter what anyone says...I can't see him as anything else & I surely couldn't see him making the jump to 168 to face the champions of that division on his first crack.

I hear you Wack but you know Kelly being the fighter that he is, if the offer was on the table and the money was fair Pavlik would go to Denmark or Wales to fight either of those guys 1st fight at 168 without a though, hell even though he would get smoked he would fight Wlad Klitschko if the conditions were right, its the Warrior in Pavlik

Agreed & well stated.

Kelly needs a good manager, IWO. One that will look out for his better interests because that fool WILL fight anyone that calls on him.

I want to see him stay @ 160lbs just for the fact that he does the division good & there are some fantastic match ups to be made.

Well as much as I would love to see him run 160 I think making weight will become an issue, he has plenty of room on that frame, he could easily be a Lightheavy and I feel his power will follow him as well as his chin..

Also Taylor should have moved up by now too.... Thats why the catchweight rematch clause. If those guys both move up to 168 that division will be stacked more solid than its been in years. I feel like Miranda waited to long to move up, the best is yet to come out of this kid and I think killing himself not to make weight will make him fresher and stronger. From the opening bell against Pavlik he was flat and lethargic even before Kelly put a good painting on him. This is the potential of 168 in 1.5 to 2 years time

Miranda
Pavlik
Kessler
Calzaghe
Lacy
Taylor
Andrade to name a few

[DaxxKahn]

People are way overhyping Pavlik... Kessler would destroy him.

Actually i read a few of your posts on Taylor vs Pavlik fight and i think you have been underrating Pavlik.

I think everyone is over rating Pavlik a bit...In all honesty he has a punchers chance in any fight but there is still much more time before Kelly is to be considered one of the top guys out there reguardless of the title...

He was getting beat by Taylor until the 7th....Jermain is no big puncher....Kessler would be too much for Kelly at this point in time...I like Pavlik but he is still in need of some experience

[RozzySean]

People are way overhyping Pavlik... Kessler would destroy him.

Possibly, but it's easy to overhype a guy who KTFO the guy who beat Hopkins and Wright, as well as KFTO a guy who put a serious hurt on AA. Safe to say Pavlik has a better resume at this point than Kessler, though I personally think they will have pretty equal resumes by Nov. 4.

I think you might underrate him a little, Taeth, because he has holes in his defensive game and he gets hit a lot, and it seems you me a show bit of a preference to fighters who can make guys miss.

That being said - I think Kessler probably wins. I don't think he destroys him, and I would give Pavlik a decent chance.

SeanE. Totally agree.

Funny how taylor was crap before the fight now he's being used a benchmark for pavlik.....i agree with those who think kessler would be too big of a step up right now. Kessler is preparing for one of the biggest fights of the year right now, calzaghe is the only thing he should be thinking about right now, not possibly fighting the guy (pavlik) who is supposed to fight the guy (duddy) who fights this weekend against some guy (Prince Arron )

Taylor wasn’t crap…he was just under performing. Anyone that followed Taylor prior to him teaming up with HBO & Manny will tell you that he was fantastic & he was a much different fighter than he is now. Also…of course the champion of the middleweight division is going to be a benchmark…but for some reason everyone has swept Miranda under the rug & decided to label him as crap.

Happens everyday.

Being a fan of Kessler, Calzaghe, & Pavlik…I can say that both of those names before Kelly’s would come out on top of their matches. Kessler’s to big & Calzaghe’s too fast.

What kills me about Pavlik is that everyone acts like he’s done nothing at middleweight & that he just popped out of thin air.

Kelly Pavlik has been either the #2 or #3 contender for a looooooooooong time. When he wasn’t & was just coming up, prior to Miranda making it big, he was known as being the danger man of the division. I hate it that most people didn’t recognize Pavlik as a threat…but I’m glad to have seen him come up & for him to make the splash that he did at 160lbs by destroying Miranda & Taylor inside of 7 basically puts an exclamation point on what he’s capable of.

The fact that he’s built his career on nine back to back knockouts with legitimate competition makes it even better. Pavlik’s record boast 32 wins with 29 knockouts over names such as Beaupierre, Pierre, Zuniga, McKart, Taylor, Miranda, & Zertuche…all of whom are worthy contenders & former champions. That’s something that many fighters of late can’t boast.

Honestly…for the first time in a long, long, long time I can honestly say that I am proud to call a fighter champion. He’s good for boxing & he’s good for the people. What more can you ask for?

Thanks...CC back.

[Wacko3205]

People are way overhyping Pavlik... Kessler would destroy him.

Actually i read a few of your posts on Taylor vs Pavlik fight and i think you have been underrating Pavlik.

I think everyone is over rating Pavlik a bit...In all honesty he has a punchers chance in any fight but there is still much more time before Kelly is to be considered one of the top guys out there reguardless of the title...

He was getting beat by Taylor until the 7th....Jermain is no big puncher....Kessler would be too much for Kelly at this point in time...I like Pavlik but he is still in need of some experience

Sure he has some learning to do...but he's accomplished a hell of a lot on his way to the top of the middleweight division.

While most consider Pavlik to be nothing more than a power punching brawler…he has proven that he can box & mix it up also.

For the last 4 years Pavlik has been considered one of the top 10 middleweights. He’s been both the #2 & #3 ranked contender for the past 2 years.

He stepped up & took out one of the strongest & arguably most feared fighter at 160 when he hammered out Miranda over 7 rounds.

He took out the middleweight champion (like him or not) Jermain Taylor over 7 rounds & he knocked him out, out boxed him, & made more of an impression on the boxing public than Hopkins, Wright, or Taylor have during their middle reigns.

He’s knocked out 29 of the 32 opponents that he’s faced. 21 of 29 those came in the first 3 rounds of his fights, that’s before the halfway mark of his bouts.

I honestly think many are not giving Pavlik his dues.

[Deanrw]

You know, no matter what scenario I go through in my head, I cannot see Kessler beating Pavlik. Pavlik's style is the type that would expose Kessler. Kessler would simply always be in range of Pavlik's right hand and jab as Kessler fights rather standup.

Calzaghe on the other hand could give Pavlik fits with his movement, angles and speed. Movement, angles and speed is what could beat Pavlik right now. That is if Calzaghe has not hit the age wall yet, but we will find out in a couple weeks.

It is all about styles

[Wacko3205]

You know, no matter what scenario I go through in my head, I cannot see Kessler beating Pavlik. Pavlik's style is the type that would expose Kessler. Kessler would simply always be in range of Pavlik's right hand and jab as Kessler fights rather standup.

Calzaghe on the other hand could give Pavlik fits with his movement, angles and speed. Movement, angles and speed is what could beat Pavlik right now. That is if Calzaghe has not hit the age wall yet, but we will find out in a couple weeks.

It is all about styles

While I agree...it is about styles...as cliche as that is of a thing for me to say...styles make fights & all that rigga marole...I think that you have to consider the fact that Kessler is a big ole' bwoy that could baloon up to 175lbs & still have room to grow a bit.

I honestly couldn't see Pavlik going past 168 to 170lbs.

I could be wrong...but his upper body doesn't seem to be framed out like Kess's is.

While I do love the shit outta Pavlik...I think that there is only so far that he can go & be successful. Kessler, IWHO, would have just as much success as Pavlik with the jab...but Kessler's jab is like a hammer & h e's damned accurate with it. In the end...I don't see KP being able to deal with anyone like Kess, Joe, Hopkins, or even a worn out RJJ.

Besides...I want him to stay @ 160lbs & do what Taylor could not.