Cintron vs Williams Official

[Althugz]

And i agree with you too Legion, in a rematch the outcome probably would be different with Margarito knowing what to do from the off. However, I would have respected Margarito more as a boxer had he adapted to the style and pulled out the victory, instead he complained of robbery when he won a maximum of 3-4 rounds. Who knows though PW may even change his tactics knowing that Margarito will.
I know you wasn't taking anything away from PW dude, i get what you mean

[boozeboxer]

HOw is a guy with or 4 losses an over confident champion?

[Althugz]

I must be the odd man out because I like Cintron for this one...Kermit losing to Margarito was the best thing to ever happen to him,,,he learned that his power will not always be enough and he now looks at things in a new light...IMO Kermit is too strong for Williams...I say Cintron gets the KO around the 9th or so as soon as he adjust to Pauls long reach

Just curious Daxx; how do you see a rematch of Cintron/Margarito going?

I figured you'd say that and I agree with most of what you said. Styles definately make fights and though I don't see PW being the reincarnation of SRR or anything, he is a talent to be respected. Alot of it is his sheer physical stature, coupled with high workrate. As far as Tony, it was obvious and should definately be to Tony that he waited way too long to engage in their fight, and misjudged the conditioning of PW. As far as Cintron; maybe I'm too harsh on him but I just don't like the way he flat out quit with Tony, and until I see him go tooth and nail into the deep end of the pool, I will never put faith in him with the elite guys that he will face soon. Cotto will ruin him if he doesn't get put to sleep in the 1st few rounds, and Tony will always have that mental edge hanging over Cintron IMO. I was a big fan of Cintron but the night he curred out with Tony I was furious, even though I had always liked Tony more. Apologies for rambling on

Your going to think I am crazy but I think Margarito wins again but Cintron will not fold like the first fight....Tony is a much better fighter then Cintron or Williams...the reason Margarito lost to Williams is the fact he waited until the 5th or so round to get in the fight.....A mistake that cost Hopkins his MW title....Margarito is a guy that does not repeat the same mistakes twice....

Its like saying Taylor is better then Hopkins...then saying Pavlik is better then Hopkins because he beat Taylor so he would beat Bernard....

Cintron though has learned a valuble lesson from the AM loss and knows enough to avoid those same mistake we have to remember one thing.....Williams throws a lot and is fairly accurate but he has no power....Williams IMO would not be able to hold off Cintron once the time came where Kermit started to use his power advantage....

Everyone is taking too much away from Cintron for the loss to Margarito and giving Williams too much credit.....Styles make fights and without the power to hold off a guy who bangs like Cintron who may not box as well as Williams but again is no average Joe Shmoe....

Not at all and you are dead on for the most part....I am not taking anything away from Williams IMO he is a quality guy who will continue to go far but again my point was that and not only you but many people took too much away from Cintron for the loss to Tony.....Many writers even HBO guys said Cintron was more then likely done as a top fighter in his weight class and then what happens? He becomes IBF champ within a year.....And again like I said Williams did not beat Margarito Margarito beat Margarito....He is not the only long term title holder to make that mistake....


Actually the fight I would personally like to see is Cintron Vs Cotto....I go with Miguel but man the power that both guys would throw!!!!...It would be a smoker while it lasted

I disagree about Margarito beating himself..maybe he did but at the end of the day that shows his lack of judgement and ability to adapt to the situation. If you're hardly in the fight by round 6-7 which he wasn't you'd buck your idea's up and he waited way too long. He should have had the wear with all from about round 3 or 4 to know that if he kept boxing the way he was he was going to lose. It can always be said that Margarito 'would' have beaten him but on the night he didn't so for me Williams is the better man. Fought the perfect fight and he should be commended for that..boxing isn't all about physical tools and Margarito showed to me that he lacked the smartness to adapt earlier than when he did. PW showed that he had ring smarts and that's an attribute he has over Tony so that in my book makes him the better man. He can have a second chance at PW if he wants but to me he lost that fight because Paul was smarter. That will never change. A top quality boxer adjusts during a fight that isn't going well for him and pulls out the victory, doesn't need a second chance to correct it..ala Mayweather, Roy Jones, Eubank (apart from Collins 2)..even Vargas to an extent had that kind of ring smarts (although he'd always lose it really late on like rounds 11 - 12 so I can't quite put him there but he adapted fantastically against Winky, Trinidad and DLH).

Anyway this match is great..one step to unifying the deepest division in the sport. It will be a really interesting year if we can get a Mayweather unification with Cotto/Mosely too.

And Taylor is better then Hopkins......When you are in the ring you don't realize that you are down by those points unless you are being dominated....Williams was landing but doing no damage so Margarito did not think the situation was urgent....Many guys especially champions who have held the title a long time make the same mistake....they think that because they are champ that they are going to get the slight benefit of the doubt from the judges and as long as they win the second half decisively they will win...Williams in no way dominated Tony or is there reason to believe that Margarito would not change his game plan next time out.....He made a mistake in his gameplan is all....IMO too many people are on the Williams bandwagon....I give him all the credit for the win...he deserves it but other then that fight Williams has done nothing to be considered one of the elite at 147 so far....beat one of the other top guys out there in a dominant fashion then we will talk...until then he put on a good performance against an overconfident champion

Ok I do agree with most of what you said..I for one am not on the PW bandwagon..but I am also one of the people that feel too many people believe in Margarito's self created hype. Anyway thats not the point. Hopkins made that mistake too in the first fight..He should have known better..Taylor beating Hopkins twice has every right to believe he is better than Hopkins..Does it mean he will go down as having the better career or being regarded as higher than Bernard? Absolutely not (Although Taylor still has time). JT was just a thorn in Bernards side and had his number..He has the bragging rights. Ok Margarito wasn't feeling the power..thats what his corner is for. To advise him that he is getting beaten out there convincingly (Not to be confused with 'dominated') If they fucked up then they made him look bad. To me PW has the bragging rights at this moment in time to call himself better than Margarito but my main point wasn't who's better than who. It was that Margarito lacks certain tools, that in my eyes, keeps him from being great. In this case : Ring smarts.

Oh and I also never said Tony wouldn't change his gameplan for next time..i just said that if he had done it in that very match and pulled out the victory I would have been much more impressed.

[LEGION]

And i agree with you too Legion, in a rematch the outcome probably would be different with Margarito knowing what to do from the off. However, I would have respected Margarito more as a boxer had he adapted to the style and pulled out the victory, instead he complained of robbery when he won a maximum of 3-4 rounds. Who knows though PW may even change his tactics knowing that Margarito will.
I know you wasn't taking anything away from PW dude, i get what you mean

Yeah, after Pavlik won alot wanted to take away from his victory, but in the end Kelly won, so now it's up to Taylor to do what's needed. And about Margarito; I'm a big fan but I was very disappointed in him after the PW fight and how he handled it. I know it was a tough loss and the proposed fight with Cotto got shot because of it, but it was disrespectful the way he conducted himself in the interview after the fight. Hell, even Tony's wife was talking sh#t, lmao. I was a bit disappointed to say the least.

[Althugz]

HOw is a guy with or 4 losses an over confident champion?

A guy who calls himself 'the most feared man in boxing', saying Floyd Mayweather ducked him all the while having a loss on his record from Daniel Santos in a weight class he legitimately should be fighting in is an extremely over confident champion!

[boozeboxer]

I always figured that was the Arum hype machine. Margarito does not appear that dumb.

[DaxxKahn]

I must be the odd man out because I like Cintron for this one...Kermit losing to Margarito was the best thing to ever happen to him,,,he learned that his power will not always be enough and he now looks at things in a new light...IMO Kermit is too strong for Williams...I say Cintron gets the KO around the 9th or so as soon as he adjust to Pauls long reach

Just curious Daxx; how do you see a rematch of Cintron/Margarito going?

I figured you'd say that and I agree with most of what you said. Styles definately make fights and though I don't see PW being the reincarnation of SRR or anything, he is a talent to be respected. Alot of it is his sheer physical stature, coupled with high workrate. As far as Tony, it was obvious and should definately be to Tony that he waited way too long to engage in their fight, and misjudged the conditioning of PW. As far as Cintron; maybe I'm too harsh on him but I just don't like the way he flat out quit with Tony, and until I see him go tooth and nail into the deep end of the pool, I will never put faith in him with the elite guys that he will face soon. Cotto will ruin him if he doesn't get put to sleep in the 1st few rounds, and Tony will always have that mental edge hanging over Cintron IMO. I was a big fan of Cintron but the night he curred out with Tony I was furious, even though I had always liked Tony more. Apologies for rambling on

Your going to think I am crazy but I think Margarito wins again but Cintron will not fold like the first fight....Tony is a much better fighter then Cintron or Williams...the reason Margarito lost to Williams is the fact he waited until the 5th or so round to get in the fight.....A mistake that cost Hopkins his MW title....Margarito is a guy that does not repeat the same mistakes twice....

Its like saying Taylor is better then Hopkins...then saying Pavlik is better then Hopkins because he beat Taylor so he would beat Bernard....

Cintron though has learned a valuble lesson from the AM loss and knows enough to avoid those same mistake we have to remember one thing.....Williams throws a lot and is fairly accurate but he has no power....Williams IMO would not be able to hold off Cintron once the time came where Kermit started to use his power advantage....

Everyone is taking too much away from Cintron for the loss to Margarito and giving Williams too much credit.....Styles make fights and without the power to hold off a guy who bangs like Cintron who may not box as well as Williams but again is no average Joe Shmoe....

Not at all and you are dead on for the most part....I am not taking anything away from Williams IMO he is a quality guy who will continue to go far but again my point was that and not only you but many people took too much away from Cintron for the loss to Tony.....Many writers even HBO guys said Cintron was more then likely done as a top fighter in his weight class and then what happens? He becomes IBF champ within a year.....And again like I said Williams did not beat Margarito Margarito beat Margarito....He is not the only long term title holder to make that mistake....


Actually the fight I would personally like to see is Cintron Vs Cotto....I go with Miguel but man the power that both guys would throw!!!!...It would be a smoker while it lasted

I disagree about Margarito beating himself..maybe he did but at the end of the day that shows his lack of judgement and ability to adapt to the situation. If you're hardly in the fight by round 6-7 which he wasn't you'd buck your idea's up and he waited way too long. He should have had the wear with all from about round 3 or 4 to know that if he kept boxing the way he was he was going to lose. It can always be said that Margarito 'would' have beaten him but on the night he didn't so for me Williams is the better man. Fought the perfect fight and he should be commended for that..boxing isn't all about physical tools and Margarito showed to me that he lacked the smartness to adapt earlier than when he did. PW showed that he had ring smarts and that's an attribute he has over Tony so that in my book makes him the better man. He can have a second chance at PW if he wants but to me he lost that fight because Paul was smarter. That will never change. A top quality boxer adjusts during a fight that isn't going well for him and pulls out the victory, doesn't need a second chance to correct it..ala Mayweather, Roy Jones, Eubank (apart from Collins 2)..even Vargas to an extent had that kind of ring smarts (although he'd always lose it really late on like rounds 11 - 12 so I can't quite put him there but he adapted fantastically against Winky, Trinidad and DLH).

Anyway this match is great..one step to unifying the deepest division in the sport. It will be a really interesting year if we can get a Mayweather unification with Cotto/Mosely too.

And Taylor is better then Hopkins......When you are in the ring you don't realize that you are down by those points unless you are being dominated....Williams was landing but doing no damage so Margarito did not think the situation was urgent....Many guys especially champions who have held the title a long time make the same mistake....they think that because they are champ that they are going to get the slight benefit of the doubt from the judges and as long as they win the second half decisively they will win...Williams in no way dominated Tony or is there reason to believe that Margarito would not change his game plan next time out.....He made a mistake in his gameplan is all....IMO too many people are on the Williams bandwagon....I give him all the credit for the win...he deserves it but other then that fight Williams has done nothing to be considered one of the elite at 147 so far....beat one of the other top guys out there in a dominant fashion then we will talk...until then he put on a good performance against an overconfident champion

Ok I do agree with most of what you said..I for one am not on the PW bandwagon..but I am also one of the people that feel too many people believe in Margarito's self created hype. Anyway thats not the point. Hopkins made that mistake too in the first fight..He should have known better..Taylor beating Hopkins twice has every right to believe he is better than Hopkins..Does it mean he will go down as having the better career or being regarded as higher than Bernard? Absolutely not (Although Taylor still has time). JT was just a thorn in Bernards side and had his number..He has the bragging rights. Ok Margarito wasn't feeling the power..thats what his corner is for. To advise him that he is getting beaten out there convincingly (Not to be confused with 'dominated') If they fucked up then they made him look bad. To me PW has the bragging rights at this moment in time to call himself better than Margarito but my main point wasn't who's better than who. It was that Margarito lacks certain tools, that in my eyes, keeps him from being great. In this case : Ring smarts.

Oh and I also never said Tony wouldn't change his gameplan for next time..i just said that if he had done it in that very match and pulled out the victory I would have been much more impressed.

Good post well said....

I always figured that was the Arum hype machine. Margarito does not appear that dumb.

For sure...Tony is actually a very polite and humble guy...I don' think I have ever heard him badmouth and opponent

[Althugz]

And i agree with you too Legion, in a rematch the outcome probably would be different with Margarito knowing what to do from the off. However, I would have respected Margarito more as a boxer had he adapted to the style and pulled out the victory, instead he complained of robbery when he won a maximum of 3-4 rounds. Who knows though PW may even change his tactics knowing that Margarito will.
I know you wasn't taking anything away from PW dude, i get what you mean

Yeah, after Pavlik won alot wanted to take away from his victory, but in the end Kelly won, so now it's up to Taylor to do what's needed. And about Margarito; I'm a big fan but I was very disappointed in him after the PW fight and how he handled it. I know it was a tough loss and the proposed fight with Cotto got shot because of it, but it was disrespectful the way he conducted himself in the interview after the fight. Hell, even Tony's wife was talking sh#t, lmao. I was a bit disappointed to say the least.

Yeah man that was the one thing I made sure to say even after I was having a row with everyone about how I scored the match..'End of the day what i'm saying doesn't really matter because PAVLIK WON!'

[Althugz]

And i agree with you too Legion, in a rematch the outcome probably would be different with Margarito knowing what to do from the off. However, I would have respected Margarito more as a boxer had he adapted to the style and pulled out the victory, instead he complained of robbery when he won a maximum of 3-4 rounds. Who knows though PW may even change his tactics knowing that Margarito will.
I know you wasn't taking anything away from PW dude, i get what you mean

Yeah, after Pavlik won alot wanted to take away from his victory, but in the end Kelly won, so now it's up to Taylor to do what's needed. And about Margarito; I'm a big fan but I was very disappointed in him after the PW fight and how he handled it. I know it was a tough loss and the proposed fight with Cotto got shot because of it, but it was disrespectful the way he conducted himself in the interview after the fight. Hell, even Tony's wife was talking sh#t, lmao. I was a bit disappointed to say the least.

Yeah man that was the one thing I made sure to say even after I was having a row with everyone about how I scored the match..'End of the day what i'm saying doesn't really matter because PAVLIK WON!'

Sorry wrong words used there..i meant 'debating' with everyone lol..I don't ever consider any thing on here a row..that would be sad

Anyway goodnight fella's, i'm gonna get my 4 hours sleep before I venture back into work

[headson]

cintron please land a big right

[Wacko3205]

Looking forward to this fight very much; jst one of many good fights next year I suppose. I got Williams to win this one in an easy UD. Cintron will get so frustrated he'll probably quit again like he did with Tony. Not trying to be a hater, just see Williams being way too busy, nor do I think Kermit has what it takes to go into deep water with PW without getting discouraged. I also hope PW wins as honestly I don't like Kermit, so I guess I am a hater JMO

Totally agee on that note.

[El Gamo]

CC Daxx my man for excellent points throughout. I think Tony beat himself too. I think PW will win but I'd like Kermit to win. I find his style more exciting than PW's.Also,with Manny,Kermit is much more patient,uses the jab more and more lateral movement. Remember,Margarito is probably the most stationary target you can get,yet Williams landed a meagre 23% of his punches? That's poor,it's just that Tony could not counter.

If Cintron can block the punches like Tony,but counter,he will win. The 1 thing he does have is devestating power and it's not as if PW is good defensively. I think PW will outwork Kermit but Cintron CAN win the fight and I hope he does. Cintron needs to let his heavy hands go,counter and bang to the body.

[LeftHookToTheBody]

And again like I said Williams did not beat Margarito Margarito beat Margarito....He is not the only long term title holder to make that mistake....

Totally disagree. The reason Margarito started out slow was not a misjudgement on his part but rather Williams simply did not give him an opportunity to get anything off. When Tony started to come on a bit late in the fight, it was because Williams slowed down a hair, not because Tony just all of a sudden decided to fight. His only chance was a stoppage, but Tony threw everything but the kitchen sink at Williams in the 11th and did not really come that close to taking him out. In the 12th he was gassed and Williams took the round easily. If they fought again the result would be the same, Williams 8 rounds to 4 just like the first time.

[Bx730NY]

Cintrons freakish power will be the difference IMO. Williams has better defence and movement than he gets credit for and that was the reason Tony couldn't get to him early on. Cintron though, has become a very good patient boxer who sticks to the script and like I said, just too much power. Pauls vulnerability on defence in the later rounds when he begins tiring(if Kermit gets there) could very well be his downfall.

[Rican]

CC Daxx my man for excellent points throughout. I think Tony beat himself too. I think PW will win but I'd like Kermit to win. I find his style more exciting than PW's.Also,with Manny,Kermit is much more patient,uses the jab more and more lateral movement. Remember,Margarito is probably the most stationary target you can get,yet Williams landed a meagre 23% of his punches? That's poor,it's just that Tony could not counter.

If Cintron can block the punches like Tony,but counter,he will win. The 1 thing he does have is devestating power and it's not as if PW is good defensively. I think PW will outwork Kermit but Cintron CAN win the fight and I hope he does. Cintron needs to let his heavy hands go,counter and bang to the body.

I agree Gamo with your analysis the most. I mean, Williams throws so many punches that he simply wins rounds by throwing the most. But I do not think Williams will hurt Cintron. Cintron is totally a different fighter than against Margarito the first time. Kermit thought that his power could solve all problems, and when Tony could take his punch, Kermit did not have a plan B, so he quit. It wasn't like Kermit was hurt or anything, even though he went down a few times. Those knockdowns were simply Cintron being discouraged. I think Cintron has a better shot against Williams than Margarito against Williams because Kermit now has the jab working, something Margarito did not. All Kermit has to do is come in with the jab, land some rights to the head and the body, and he might do some damage. As much as I like Kermit, I would say Williams by decision, but I believe Kermit CAN win and will put up a great showing.