Sastics when considering the outcomes to Hagler vs Jones fight

[ICB]

Jones wins forget the stats Jones was just amazing end of.

[ICB]

The argument of those who are dazzled by the speed, power and reflexes of Jones relies on things other than what makes real greatness - things like skill, quality of competition, and how a fighter reacts to real adversity. Hagler cannot match the handspeed of Jones, but in these categories - which I argue are more important in boxing - he trounces Jones. And that would make all the difference in the world in my book.

Jones fought better overall opposition than Hagler minus Duran and Hearns.



Talent is not skill. You can get away with plenty when you fight ordinary opponents or good fighters who may be more technically sound, but are too slow or deliberate to deliver or simply too weary.


I don't know what your implying with this comment but Jones fought some of the best opposition of his era.

AND ANYWAY, if anybody has the tools to deal with Jones on the outside (and not just slipping and feinting just out of range like Eubank would do or moonwalking like Nunn would), it's Hagler - he maximized his speed with a deceptive reach and superb timing, he was also great at setting up counters with good evasions and footwork, and was also the master of tricking opponents into setting themselves up. But he could also use 'Destruct and Destroy' mission - hunting Jones down, cutting him off, cornering him, and getting in his face, fully prepared to walk straight through a single lead right hand. And there'd be nowhere to go for Jones, and he wouldn't know what to do.

Hagler was also pretty slow Leonard who just come off 3 year lay off and had never fought at Middleweight beat Hagler by moving and not allowing Hagler to get set.


Please kids, don't say 'oh, but what if Roy just boxed him and used his speed'. Roy really was not a master boxer. Roy was out-feinted and out-boxed by Montell Griffin. Roy was given great trouble by southpaws Harding and Tarver. Basically skilled fighters who applied SKILLED pressure gave Jones a lot of trouble (and no, Joe Calzaghe does not come into that category).

No he was not outboxed or out-feinted by Griffin it was pretty close fight and Jones won forgetting the BS DQ and you bring this fight up but what happened in the rematch ?? it just goes to show you what Roy Jones could really do when he was fired up for a fight and you do know Jones had bicep injury after the 2nd round in the Harding fight right ?? and you do know Jones was past his best against Tarver yes ??

Eddie Futch gave Montell Griffin an effective strategy for Jones because Futch saw what everyone else was too dazzled to see - technical weaknesses. Griffin pressured him, stuck to his chest, and tried to pin him with hooks on the inside. Watch any of Roy's fights and when he is cornered and the opponent (usually just that - an opponent) is close and on him, he looked utterly bewildered.. stretching his neck, turning his head, even closing his eyes. This is where Hagler would be. And Hagler is far stronger than Griffin and Hopkins.


Griffin is nothing like Hagler at all Griffin was an awkward fighter and like i said earlier what happened in the rematch ??

[Violent Demise]

I think Jones beats Hagler without much problems. 10 rounds to 2. Or 12 rounds to 3 if it's a 15 round fight.

[Mr140]

Hagler was not prime when he fought SRL so do not make Taver exuses if you are going to bring up SRL. Also they do not even fight the same SRL is completly different fighter then Roy. Hagler was a beast would wear Roy down and then either get a UD or get to his chin before the end if it was 15 rounds i would go Hagler late TKO.

[ICB]

Hagler was not prime when he fought SRL so do not make Taver exuses if you are going to bring up SRL. Also they do not even fight the same SRL is completly different fighter then Roy. Hagler was a beast would wear Roy down and then either get a UD or get to his chin before the end if it was 15 rounds i would go Hagler late TKO.

Hagler was near enough in his prime against Leonard and was coming off two good victories against Hearns and Mugabi.

Jones moved down from Heavyweight to Lightheavyweight big difference.

[Mr140]

Well Roy could not of been that far gone he still only had one lose. I mean i rather lose to a legend by a close fight then get destroyed by a nobody and get killed by a journeyman i mean which would you take.

[Mr140]

And who cares what i say not going to change your mind anyhow o well.

[ICB]

Well Roy could not of been that far gone he still only had one lose. I mean i rather lose to a legend by a close fight then get destroyed by a nobody and get killed by a journeyman i mean which would you take.

You just changed the subject the fact is Hagler was not really past his prime he just couldn't get set because Leonard gave Hagler constant movement and was much faster than Hagler.

Watch Jones against Tarver then watch Jones in his prime there is alot of difference his biggest mitake was going up and down in weight.

Also they do not even fight the same SRL is completly different fighter then Roy. Hagler was a beast would wear Roy down and then either get a UD or get to his chin before the end if it was 15 rounds i would go Hagler late TKO.

Jones hits alot harder than Sugar Ray Leonard at Middleweight and he would make Hagler respect his power unlike Leonard.

[Mr140]

Well Jones got knocked out so fast i not sure how it could of gone and for jones power i think Hearns shots were harder and they did not seem to bother Hagler to much if you watch the fight.

[Violent Demise]

And who cares what i say not going to change your mind anyhow o well.

Smartest thing you've said

[ICB]

Well Jones got knocked out so fast i not sure how it could of gone and for jones power i think Hearns shots were harder and they did not seem to bother Hagler to much if you watch the fight.

A natural Welterweight Hearns does not hit harder than Jones.

[Majesty]

Well Jones got knocked out so fast i not sure how it could of gone and for jones power i think Hearns shots were harder and they did not seem to bother Hagler to much if you watch the fight.

Jones got knocked out all the way at Light Heavyweight.

And a middleweight bernard hopkins is a huge power puncher and Jones took his shots just fine, and he took James Toney's just fine as well, the few times he got hit.

Why are you bringing up when Jones was past his prime?

He was knocked out past his prime.

Thats like saying Holyfield got knocked out by a former middleweight James Toney and has a glass chin. Think man.

[greynotsoold]

Hagler kills Jones, especially at 160, where Hagler fought his entire career. The Jones that fought Hopkins? Have any of you actually seen that fight? In 1975 that fight was an 8 rounder: the skill displayed was far from impressive. Hagler would beat Jones every time for one simple reason: Jones could do his best and then Marvin would hit him back, hard. Hagler loved to fight and RJJ never had the stomach for it.

[Mr140]

I only brought it up because he brought up SRL so i brought up Taver and Ice Hearn had Ok power when he was a CW i think there power is close.

[Mr140]

Hey may of started out at Welter but he was 6'1 and he grew in to his body the higher he went up and still carried power.