Should Richard Steel have stopped the Taylor-Chavez(1990) when he did?VOTE

[ICB]

Nodding the head is not enough, fighter has to answer and SHOW HE CAN STILL FIGHT or let alone, stand. Anybody who saw the fight knows Taylor simply couldn't continue. People don't argue that, people argue that there were only a few seconds left. Taylor obviously didn't have a drop of gas left in the tank. Face was unrecognizable, could barely stand, couldn't answer the referee's call, etc.

Nodding the head is not enough,

Yes it is a boxer normally nods there head to let the ref know there ok.

fighter has to answer and SHOW HE CAN STILL FIGHT or let alone,

Taylor got up at the count of 5, he nodded to Steele's question so he did show he could still fight.

Plus Steele made major errors like not making sure Chavez was in the neutral corner. If he would had the fight would of been over and Taylor would of won. Plus when he asked Taylor a 2nd time if he was ok he didn't give Taylor a chance to answer and waved the fight off immediately.

[Chino]

Even if Steele told Chavez to go to the neutral corner he would still be counting to 8 to ask Taylor if he was ok (which he was not of course).

I was surprised that Steele even asked Taylor for a second time if he was ok after seeing how he couldn't even say "I am fine!" the first time he asked.

Good thing there were no doubts the 2nd time they fought.

[No Contest]

I think it was horrible to do that, Taylor was on his way to a victory, he got up, he wouldnt have even taken another punch because there was only 2 seconds. It would have been Steele giving them distance and then by the time he said fight, the bell would have rung.(rang?)

[The Rookie Fan]

In cases like this its just best to give the benefit of the doubt to the man most capable of determining if Taylor could fight or not. And that man was the one standing 5" from him and looking at him right in the eye. No one here can say he had a better view of Taylor than Steel did. So lets give him the benefit of the doubt.

[No Contest]

Even if Steele told Chavez to go to the neutral corner he would still be counting to 8 to ask Taylor if he was ok (which he was not of course).

I was surprised that Steele even asked Taylor for a second time if he was ok after seeing how he couldn't even say "I am fine!" the first time he asked.

Good thing there were no doubts the 2nd time they fought.

You dont have to say anything man are you shitting me? You got a big mouthpiece and are supposed to talk to talk to the ref in the 12th round of a hard fight...lol. All you have to do is nod and put your hands up or walk forward. He did...Here's an example of when you should stop it....Holyfield Bowe 3 Cortez let Holyfield continue after taking about 3-4 second to respond to come forward. He then promptly got hammered back to the floor.

[ICB]

quote author=Chino link=topic=56648.msg739144#msg739144 date=1198866555]
Even if Steele told Chavez to go to the neutral corner he would still be counting to 8 to ask Taylor if he was ok (which he was not of course).

I was surprised that Steele even asked Taylor for a second time if he was ok after seeing how he couldn't even say "I am fine!" the first time he asked.

Good thing there were no doubts the 2nd time they fought.
[/quote]

Even if Steele told Chavez to go to the neutral corner he would still be counting to 8 to ask Taylor if he was ok (which he was not of course).

It would of took more time plus them precious seconds it would of took to get Chavez in neutral corner. Would of made the difference in the whole fight, Steele didn't do his job properly it was poor referring.

I was surprised that Steele even asked Taylor for a second time if he was ok after seeing how he couldn't even say "I am fine!" the first time he asked.

He nodded his head to Steele's first question, considering how big the fight was every champion deserves a chance to fight on, Taylor pulled himself up nodded to Steele's question, it was Steele's poor referring that cost him the fight. If Steele would of let the fight go on the bell would of rung no punch would of been landed, Taylor would of won SD.

Good thing there were no doubts the 2nd time they fought.

Taylor was well past his prime in the rematch.

[No Contest]

That was the worst call in the history of boxing IMO, and Richard Steele is the worst big fight ref of all time as well. His darting eyes dont do much for his credibility...I think he was crooked honestly.

[BoomBoom]

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

[The Rookie Fan]

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

[JT Rock]

Refs use different discretion, I mean who the really knows what Steele's motivation was, but by all accounts he was with in the rules. I personally disagree with the stoppage, Taylor deserved the benefit of the doubt like someone mentioned we have seen a gazillion big time fights that a fighters got the benefit of the doubt in that situation, Taylor wasnt on rubbery legs or stumbling over or clinging on the ropes for dear life ...

Again the discretion of the ref, Frank Capuccino let Gatti and Ward murder each other.. Steve Smoger lets them fight to the death. Technically Steele was in the rules and guidelines but Taylor deserved the benefit of the doubt

[BoomBoom]

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

Well put. As far as the issue of whether or not Meldick was able to continue, Steele was right in front of him and could see his eyes. He could see that he was hurt, we can only speculate but as a referee who had worked many fights people should trust his judgement. Especially because safety of the fighter is always the number one priority.

[Chino]

I think it was horrible to do that, Taylor was on his way to a victory, he got up, he wouldnt have even taken another punch because there was only 2 seconds. It would have been Steele giving them distance and then by the time he said fight, the bell would have rung.(rang?)

It sounds as if decisions should be made depending on how much time is left but the rules were not made depending on how much time was left per round. This argument is based on how much time was left instead of the fact that Meldrick Taylor simply couldn't continue, which is, a TKO.

And that man was the one standing 5" from him and looking at him right in the eye. No one here can say he had a better view of Taylor than Steel did.

I remember how Steele would even follow his eyes and look deep into them and ask "Are you ok?.......ARE YOU OK?!?!"

You dont have to say anything man are you shitting me? You got a big mouthpiece and are supposed to talk to talk to the ref in the 12th round of a hard fight...lol

I am yet to see a boxer take out his mouthpiece to say "Yeah!...I am fine!...Sure!" or whatever boxers answer when they are asked. We can all hear it even if we are not sitting on ringside. This reminds me of a funny answer from a boxer. It was Tyson vs Ribalta. Ribalta was floored and after the 8 count referee asks "Are you ok?" and he answered "HELL YEAH!" something the commentators even laughed at . The point is, boxers don't need to take out the mouth piece, fix their hair, fix their trunks, etc. Just to answer loud and clear that they are fine. Watch any fight and you can hear boxers go "Yes!...I am fine..." or whatever. Taylor failed to answer.

All you have to do is nod and put your hands up or walk forward

Even so, Taylor was way far from being able to walk forward. Look at his face, look at his reaction when the referee asks, etc. If the referee notices that the fighter can't take it anymore the fight will be stopped.

He did...Here's an example of when you should stop it....Holyfield Bowe 3 Cortez let Holyfield continue after taking about 3-4 second to respond to come forward. He then promptly got hammered back to the floor.

Exactly, Holyfield didn't even answer and got hammered back. Bad judgement from him. Steel noticed the same thing and made the right choice of not letting him continue regardless of how much time was left.

Taylor was well past his prime in the rematch.

How about Chavez?

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

Exactly.

I wonder what would have happened if Chavez was the one being floored .

Interesting how so many boxing fans hate Chavez.

[ICB]

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

Well put. As far as the issue of whether or not Meldick was able to continue, Steele was right in front of him and could see his eyes. He could see that he was hurt, we can only speculate but as a referee who had worked many fights people should trust his judgement. Especially because safety of the fighter is always the number one priority.

referee who had worked many fights people should trust his judgement.

The same ref that stopped Ruddock vs Tyson 1 too early ?? the same ref who stopped Benn vs Eubank 1 too early ?? the same ref that has been in so many controversial fights its unbelievable ?? yes i trust his judgment alright

[Chino]

Interesting that people find controversial for a referee to stop a fight of someone who can't continue. Still, what happened between Chavez vs Taylor 1 has NOTHING to do with bad judgement, it has more to do with the fact that Taylor was winning and there were a few seconds left when the fight was stopped but not because he stopped the fight and Taylor was 100% ready to continue fighting. I am surprised Taylor didn't leave in stretchers.

[ICB]

I think it was horrible to do that, Taylor was on his way to a victory, he got up, he wouldnt have even taken another punch because there was only 2 seconds. It would have been Steele giving them distance and then by the time he said fight, the bell would have rung.(rang?)

It sounds as if decisions should be made depending on how much time is left but the rules were not made depending on how much time was left per round. This argument is based on how much time was left instead of the fact that Meldrick Taylor simply couldn't continue, which is, a TKO.

And that man was the one standing 5" from him and looking at him right in the eye. No one here can say he had a better view of Taylor than Steel did.

I remember how Steele would even follow his eyes and look deep into them and ask "Are you ok?.......ARE YOU OK?!?!"

You dont have to say anything man are you shitting me? You got a big mouthpiece and are supposed to talk to talk to the ref in the 12th round of a hard fight...lol

I am yet to see a boxer take out his mouthpiece to say "Yeah!...I am fine!...Sure!" or whatever boxers answer when they are asked. We can all hear it even if we are not sitting on ringside. This reminds me of a funny answer from a boxer. It was Tyson vs Ribalta. Ribalta was floored and after the 8 count referee asks "Are you ok?" and he answered "HELL YEAH!" something the commentators even laughed at . The point is, boxers don't need to take out the mouth piece, fix their hair, fix their trunks, etc. Just to answer loud and clear that they are fine. Watch any fight and you can hear boxers go "Yes!...I am fine..." or whatever. Taylor failed to answer.

All you have to do is nod and put your hands up or walk forward

Even so, Taylor was way far from being able to walk forward. Look at his face, look at his reaction when the referee asks, etc. If the referee notices that the fighter can't take it anymore the fight will be stopped.

He did...Here's an example of when you should stop it....Holyfield Bowe 3 Cortez let Holyfield continue after taking about 3-4 second to respond to come forward. He then promptly got hammered back to the floor.

Exactly, Holyfield didn't even answer and got hammered back. Bad judgement from him. Steel noticed the same thing and made the right choice of not letting him continue regardless of how much time was left.

Taylor was well past his prime in the rematch.

How about Chavez?

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

Exactly.

I wonder what would have happened if Chavez was the one being floored .

Interesting how so many boxing fans hate Chavez.

It sounds as if decisions should be made depending on how much time is left but the rules were not made depending on how much time was left per round. This argument is based on how much time was left instead of the fact that Meldrick Taylor simply couldn't continue, which is, a TKO.

Not at all even if there was 1 minute left, Taylor still deserved his chance to carry on. Taylor got up, he nodded to Steele's question what else is he supposed to do ??

How about Chavez?

Chavez wasn't in his peak but its not even comparable to Taylor.

Even so, Taylor was way far from being able to walk forward. Look at his face, look at his reaction when the referee asks, etc. If the referee notices that the fighter can't take it anymore the fight will be stopped.

Oh i see Taylor's expression alright when Steele stopped the fight he couldn't believe it. Taylor knew exactly where he was he looked at his corner, responded to Steele's question. It was just plain old bad referring from Steele like he has done time and time again. He should of made sure Chavez was in the neutral corner like every ref does.

Interesting how so many boxing fans hate Chavez.

No one hates Chavez just because some people don't think its fair decision doesn't mean we hate Chavez. If it would of been any boxer i still wouldn't agree with it.