If Tony Beats Cotto...it doesn't mean Cotto can't beat Floyd....

[SweetPea]

Again if Cintron and Cotto have anywhere near the same punch power, Cotto is in deep doodoo.

Why would Cotto be in "deep doodoo?"

Cotto is a far superior technical boxer. He might not have better one punch KO power than Cintron, but he's a far superior offensive fighter with many more weapons.

Cintron needed to be able to badly hurt Margarito with one punch to win. Cotto doesn't need to do that. He's a well-rounded boxer, not a raw puncher.

[CutMeMick]

I'm saying this now JUST in case it happens so remember this. I saw Mick mention it and I was going to make a thread about it anyway. Say Tony beats Cotto,I don't want all the Floyd nuthuggers who have gone into hiding to come here and say Cotto was over rated blah blah blah. Styles make fights. Just because Tony may beat Cotto, does not mean Floyd would be able to beat him easily too.NO WAY.

I think Tony beats Cotto but I also think Cotto does better against Floyd. Timing and composure plus best jab in boxing would give Floyd a HEART ATTACK. So don't get it twisted. Cotto is still Floyd's toughest fight out there by far.

Gamo, normally I'd agree with you 100% about the whole "styles make fights" thing, but in this case I have to disagree.

If Cotto is a true superstar elite fighter (which I think he is), then he must beat a fighter like Margarito. And if he can't beat a fighter of Margarito's level, I don't see how he beats a fighter of Mayweather's level, regardless of style matchups.

As I said in the other thread...

Emile lost to Carter when Carter had like 20 fights and Emile was already World Class. Still Emile bounced back and beat Archer, Rodriguez, Benvenutti and Tiger.

Arguello lost right in the middle of his great reign to Vilomar but went on to beat Escalera, Limon, Chacon, Mancini and so on and so on.....

People gotta understand sometimes and I've been like this myself that because a fighter looses to someone then he's done or that means he can't beat anyonelse.

Kid Gavilan, Carlos Ortiz and many fighters all lost during their reigns and some in their primes BUT what makes them great is that they bounced back and beat the then World Champ and I think the assesment made here is fair and it makes sense because it happens.

Because Tony beat Cintron that doesn't everyone else can beat him it just so happens that Tonys chin + his output is Cintrons weakness.
I'm almost certain that would Cintron have hit Zab, SSM, Cotto, Carlos and anyone else he would have either dropped them or at least shook them up cause they don't have Tonys chin.

[amat]

Fenster is right, the point is moot from the very first sentence because there is no way Cotto gets a shot at Mayweather if he loses to Margarito.

I don't think he will, I think stylistically Cotto matches up better with Margarito then he does Mayweather.

[rene69]

From what i saw in Cotto's post fight interview...he looked as if he wanted no part of Mayweather.

[OumaFan]

The more I think about it I think Cotto matches up pretty well with Margarito. I think he can box and move a bit but also stand his ground, get there quicker with the straighter punches. Watch out for the uppercut.

But obviously Fenster's right, its a moot point if he loses.

[SweetPea]

People gotta understand sometimes and I've been like this myself that because a fighter looses to someone then he's done or that means he can't beat anyonelse.

I definitely understand this. But the point is that there is a big enough gap in talent between Margarito and Floyd, that if Cotto can't beat Margarito, it's reasonable to assume he can't beat Floyd.

It's not like Margarito presents some awkward style that could give Cotto fits. Cotto is superior in every aspect to Margarito. More power, faster hands, better jab, more offensive variety, better defense, etc. Margarito has the type of style that should allow Cotto to show off all his skills. If Cotto can't do that against Margarito, then he's not as good as we thought.

[Kirkland Laing]

People gotta understand sometimes and I've been like this myself that because a fighter looses to someone then he's done or that means he can't beat anyonelse.

I definitely understand this. But the point is that there is a big enough gap in talent between Margarito and Floyd, that if Cotto can't beat Margarito, it's reasonable to assume he can't beat Floyd.

It's not like Margarito presents some awkward style that could give Cotto fits. Cotto is superior in every aspect to Margarito. More power, faster hands, better jab, more offensive variety, better defense, etc. Margarito has the type of style that should allow Cotto to show off all his skills. If Cotto can't do that against Margarito, then he's not as good as we thought.

Yes. You don't need a Max Kellerman-like knowledge of boxing to see that Cotto is superior to Margarito. But Cotto would definitely lose to Floyd.

[zhubin]

People gotta understand sometimes and I've been like this myself that because a fighter looses to someone then he's done or that means he can't beat anyonelse.

I definitely understand this. But the point is that there is a big enough gap in talent between Margarito and Floyd, that if Cotto can't beat Margarito, it's reasonable to assume he can't beat Floyd.

It's not like Margarito presents some awkward style that could give Cotto fits. Cotto is superior in every aspect to Margarito. More power, faster hands, better jab, more offensive variety, better defense, etc. Margarito has the type of style that should allow Cotto to show off all his skills. If Cotto can't do that against Margarito, then he's not as good as we thought.

I agree with everything you say...BUT...while Cotto is a more superior fighter than Tony...Cotto still is open to get hit. This always is a concern for me. So while on paper he can out box Tony all day....it just takes that one punch to turn things around. And sure, Cotto isn't slow...but he aint fast either. Against Floyd...that would be exposed.

[SweetPea]

And sure, Cotto isn't slow...but he aint fast either. Against Floyd...that would be exposed.

I think Cotto has above-average speed. I don't think it would be wrong to call him "fast." Did Cotto look slower against Judah? Yes, of course, because Zab has lightning-fast handspeed. Would Cotto look like the slower man in the ring against Floyd? Yes, because Floyd is lightning-fast. But Cotto would look fast against just about anyone else. His speed looked good against Mosley, who is considered an above-average fighter in terms of speed.

[zhubin]

And sure, Cotto isn't slow...but he aint fast either. Against Floyd...that would be exposed.

I think Cotto has above-average speed. I don't think it would be wrong to call him "fast." Did Cotto look slower against Judah? Yes, of course, because Zab has lightning-fast handspeed. Would Cotto look like the slower man in the ring against Floyd? Yes, because Floyd is lightning-fast. But Cotto would look fast against just about anyone else. His speed looked good against Mosley, who is considered an above-average fighter in terms of speed.

I agree. I don't think he is a slow fighter. But he doesn't have the speed and fluidity to beat a guy like Mayweather. In all honesty...if Zab had half a brain and better composure he would have beaten Cotto. As for Shane...i had the fight a draw. Yes, Shane is known for his speed. But in that fight it clearly showed he has slowed down considerably...yet he was still effective against Cotto. I'm not trying to knock Cotto...i think he is a great fighter...and i do think he would give Floyd a tough match. But i just think he will have a tough time against a fast, skilled, and smart fighter. And i am still not completely sold on his defense and chin. So while he might have great skills....he could potentially be in trouble against a big puncher...whether that's Tony...we have to wait and see.

[Rican]

I agree with Gamo 100%. If Cotto loses to Margo, how can Floyd say Cotto doesn't deserve to fight him, considering Floyd has ducked Margarito for years? People say Floyd defeats Margo, but that has never been proven in the ring, and we know Margo would give a better performance than Baldomir, Gatti, Mitchell, Brusseles, Hatton, and yes, de la Hoya. If Margo beats Cotto, then he definitely deserves first crack at Floyd, but I doubt Floyd wants to fight Margo at all.

[amat]

I agree with Gamo 100%. If Cotto loses to Margo, how can Floyd say Cotto doesn't deserve to fight him, considering Floyd has ducked Margarito for years? People say Floyd defeats Margo, but that has never been proven in the ring, and we know Margo would give a better performance than Baldomir, Gatti, Mitchell, Brusseles, Hatton, and yes, de la Hoya. If Margo beats Cotto, then he definitely deserves first crack at Floyd, but I doubt Floyd wants to fight Margo at all.

I disagree with that. I don't think Margarito - Mayweather ever happens even if Margarito somehow beats Cotto and perosnally I don't really care. I don't think Margarito would win more then 3 rounds versus Mayweather. Don't think he would fare as well as DLH or Hatton.

[CutMeMick]

People gotta understand sometimes and I've been like this myself that because a fighter looses to someone then he's done or that means he can't beat anyonelse.

I definitely understand this. But the point is that there is a big enough gap in talent between Margarito and Floyd, that if Cotto can't beat Margarito, it's reasonable to assume he can't beat Floyd.

It's not like Margarito presents some awkward style that could give Cotto fits. Cotto is superior in every aspect to Margarito. More power, faster hands, better jab, more offensive variety, better defense, etc. Margarito has the type of style that should allow Cotto to show off all his skills. If Cotto can't do that against Margarito, then he's not as good as we thought.

The talent gap between Vilomar and Mancini or Escalera was how far apart?

Duran beat SRL, SRL beat Hearns now that didn't mean that when Duran fought Hearns that he was gonna win did it?

So because Cotto loses to Margarito that doesn't mean he can't beat PBF.

[Puya]

I'm saying this now JUST in case it happens so remember this. I saw Mick mention it and I was going to make a thread about it anyway. Say Tony beats Cotto,I don't want all the Floyd nuthuggers who have gone into hiding to come here and say Cotto was over rated blah blah blah. Styles make fights. Just because Tony may beat Cotto, does not mean Floyd would be able to beat him easily too.NO WAY.

I think Tony beats Cotto but I also think Cotto does better against Floyd. Timing and composure plus best jab in boxing would give Floyd a HEART ATTACK. So don't get it twisted. Cotto is still Floyd's toughest fight out there by far.

Gamo, normally I'd agree with you 100% about the whole "styles make fights" thing, but in this case I have to disagree.

If Cotto is a true superstar elite fighter (which I think he is), then he must beat a fighter like Margarito. And if he can't beat a fighter of Margarito's level, I don't see how he beats a fighter of Mayweather's level, regardless of style matchups.

yup!

[amat]

People gotta understand sometimes and I've been like this myself that because a fighter looses to someone then he's done or that means he can't beat anyonelse.

I definitely understand this. But the point is that there is a big enough gap in talent between Margarito and Floyd, that if Cotto can't beat Margarito, it's reasonable to assume he can't beat Floyd.

It's not like Margarito presents some awkward style that could give Cotto fits. Cotto is superior in every aspect to Margarito. More power, faster hands, better jab, more offensive variety, better defense, etc. Margarito has the type of style that should allow Cotto to show off all his skills. If Cotto can't do that against Margarito, then he's not as good as we thought.

The talent gap between Vilomar and Mancini or Escalera was how far apart?

Duran beat SRL, SRL beat Hearns now that didn't mean that when Duran fought Hearns that he was gonna win did it?

So because Cotto loses to Margarito that doesn't mean he can't beat PBF.

This is different though because this is a case where Margarito isn't your traditional "trap" fight which a lot of those were. Margarito isn't some unknown and the reasons most of the fighters you named were expecting to roll right over their opponents, not evaluating the threats they possessed. This happened with Cotto and Torres, someone he showed no respect for his power and then found out the hard way he could bang. Torres was a low profile guy, good but most expected a Cotto beating to be unleashed.

He knows Tony is a tough guy but he is better, he should know that he will have to be in top form and as a champion, that's what is expected of him.

Cotto needs to do what is expected of him in beating Tony otherwise how could we ever believe he expects to beat Mayweather? And that's a valid point. No matter what Cotto will have the chance to beat Maweather but realistically, he can't lose to Margarito and expect to beat Floyd.